2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:14 pm

So - for those people that had to miss work, did you all get paid? I will be missing three days of work to interview around the country, and it looks like I will be forking over ~$2,000 (lost pay, flights, etc.) to make it happen. I'm obviously thankful to be interviewing, but I was curious if any of you had success in getting paid despite missing work.

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Flips88
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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Flips88 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So - for those people that had to miss work, did you all get paid? I will be missing three days of work to interview around the country, and it looks like I will be forking over ~$2,000 (lost pay, flights, etc.) to make it happen. I'm obviously thankful to be interviewing, but I was curious if any of you had success in getting paid despite missing work.

Yeah, we don't have to take unpaid time off to do interviews thankfully. That's the most absurd part of this process I think—judges expect you to book a very expensive flight at the drop of a hat to fly across the country for a chance at a job that can range from like 50% to 7-8%.

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Postby Myself » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:33 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:00 pm

nhs wrote:I thought they couldn't see them before June 28th? Should I have gotten my apps in to federal judges months ago?


For district judges, I don't think you are dead in the water. I had two off-Plan district court interviews, but I also received an off-Plan interview invitation after I accepted and also after applications were released through OSCAR. So there are still judges out there. But your pool of hiring judges is larger if you take a multi-step, off-Plan, then on-Plan application approach.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby gdane » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:12 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So - for those people that had to miss work, did you all get paid? I will be missing three days of work to interview around the country, and it looks like I will be forking over ~$2,000 (lost pay, flights, etc.) to make it happen. I'm obviously thankful to be interviewing, but I was curious if any of you had success in getting paid despite missing work.

Yeah, we don't have to take unpaid time off to do interviews thankfully. That's the most absurd part of this process I think—judges expect you to book a very expensive flight at the drop of a hat to fly across the country for a chance at a job that can range from like 50% to 7-8%.

Don't apply to judges across the country then. A clerkship is a privilege, not a right. Apply at your own risk and deal with things like booking flights across the second you're asked to.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:55 pm

gdane wrote:Don't apply to judges across the country then. A clerkship is a privilege, not a right. Apply at your own risk and deal with things like booking flights across the second you're asked to.


She obviously "appl[ied] at [her] own risk," but the process is still a bit absurd. There is no need scold someone for pointing out how expensive the process may be. Clerkships may be privileges, but they can be very costly privileges.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
gdane wrote:Don't apply to judges across the country then. A clerkship is a privilege, not a right. Apply at your own risk and deal with things like booking flights across the second you're asked to.


She obviously "appl[ied] at [her] own risk," but the process is still a bit absurd. There is no need scold someone for pointing out how expensive the process may be. Clerkships may be privileges, but they can be very costly privileges.


+1. OP didn't seem to be complaining much.

All employment is a privilege, but there are't many fields of employment that offer you same-week interviews and don't offer to help with travel expenses. More importantly, if there's any appropriate place to blow off a bit of steam about the stress and expense of the process, it should be here.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby gdane » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:33 pm

My comment was directed at Flips, who is an incessant complainer. No surprise that now he's complaining about the clerkship interview process.

But both of you are right.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby ClerkAdvisor » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So - for those people that had to miss work, did you all get paid? I will be missing three days of work to interview around the country, and it looks like I will be forking over ~$2,000 (lost pay, flights, etc.) to make it happen. I'm obviously thankful to be interviewing, but I was curious if any of you had success in getting paid despite missing work.


I think this is a legitimate concern, especially with respect to costs. A couple suggestions for mitigating costs:

(1) Try to 'parlay' interviews to increase your odds that each flight will turn into a clerkship.

(2) I know this is difficult to do with the plan getting moved around, but try and schedule your interviews for when flights are cheapest. For example, some judges are flexible about interview dates, so you should look at flight prices when you schedule the interview.

(3) Likewise, talk to chambers about trying to avoid a hotel stay - i.e., try asking for an afternoon interview if that will let you fly in the same morning.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:19 pm

At least some of my judges are kind enough to inform me by email that although I'm impressive, I'm just not quite impressive enough.

Otherwise, crickets.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At least some of my judges are kind enough to inform me by email that although I'm impressive, I'm just not quite impressive enough.

Otherwise, crickets.


Whaaaat!?

I thought I was the impressive one!

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:43 pm

Engelmayer (SDNY) is done for 2014.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:15 pm

Looks like Judge Gould (9th Cir) is also done for 2014.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:29 am

Anyone know if Srinivasan is done for 2014-15?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:58 pm

Any more updates on ND Ill? Aspen's full now via OSCAR.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby LeDique » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:06 pm

Another sort of dumb question:

I interned in a state district court judge's chambers last summer. I was trying to get a LOR, but I only had the clerk's email and they're awful about answering the phone. I e-mailed him, hadn't heard back in a week, so I just asked one of the attorneys here for a LOR which she was happy to write. Now, two weeks later, he has just gotten back to me saying the judge would be happy to write one for me. The problem is: CDO told me to list who LORs would be coming from in my cover letter. I followed that advice and mailed them literally this morning.

Should I explain and decline, or would the benefit of a LOR from a judge be better?

ETA: I'm only applying for state appellate clerkships if that makes a difference

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:26 pm

Francis (SDNY) is full.

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Postby Myself » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:37 pm

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby LeDique » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:44 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Ledique:

If I understand you correctly, you already sent in CLs. The CLs say that, "I have attached recommendations from Profs. Smith, Jones, and Brown."

But now you have a potential LOR from State Judge. So you're wondering whether you should also send this LOR to the judges whom you're applying to, despite the CL's indication of LORs coming just from your Profs.

If the above is the case, I think you should just have State Judge write a LOR for you and send it in. I don't think any judge or law clerk is going to say, "Ooohhh, this applicant said we were going to get LORs from Profs. Smith, Jones, and Brown; but we also got a LOR from State Judge! In the trash this applicant goes!"

I think the LOR from the judge could help and if you have certain judges you're really interested in, see if State Judge would be wiling to place a call going to bat for you.

Oh, btw, for future reference, I think it's a little unnecessary and repetitive and needless work to write out who your recommenders are in the CL. For example, I would just say at the end of my CL, "I have included my resume and additional application materials" I don't think you need to write, "I have included my resume, transcript, two writing samples, letters of recommendation from Profs Smith, Jones, and Brown, and cash money."

I mean, the judge is going to see who your recommenders are anyway when they read your LORs. Unless you have some nationally famous professor like Laurence Tribe or Ronald Dworkin, whom you want the judge to recognize write away, then I don't think you need to also mention your prof's name in the LOR.


You got it basically right - They're not attached, they're coming separately, which is why CDO said to do it that way.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:55 pm

M.J. Gorenstein (SDNY) is full.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:05 pm

From anecdotal evidence, SDNY is either full or close to it. Most judges have made calls and are interviewing or have already hired because they completely jumped the Plan.

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Postby Myself » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:10 pm

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:24 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Oh, btw, for future reference, I think it's a little unnecessary and repetitive and needless work to write out who your recommenders are in the CL. For example, I would just say at the end of my CL, "I have included my resume and additional application materials" I don't think you need to write, "I have included my resume, transcript, two writing samples, letters of recommendation from Profs Smith, Jones, and Brown, and cash money."

I mean, the judge is going to see who your recommenders are anyway when they read your LORs. Unless you have some nationally famous professor like Laurence Tribe or Ronald Dworkin, whom you want the judge to recognize write away, then I don't think you need to also mention your prof's name in the LOR.


I think there are circumstances where this is good advice, but in many other situations it's a good idea to put the professors' names and phone numbers right on the cover letter. This is because the CLs will often arrive so much earlier than the recommendations. It allows a judge an easy reference and if they want to call to learn more about the applicant before receiving the letter (which does happen) they can. It's not as a means of impressing but as a means of facilitating contact with the recommenders.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:28 pm

The silence of my inbox and phone are deafening.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:39 pm

Amen, brotha. I'm packing it in.




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