2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know if St. Eve (N.D. Ill) has started calling?

Same question for Castillo, zagel, lefkow.

Also any word on what Flaum is doing?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:02 pm

Looks like Motz (4th Cir) is done.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:04 pm

I thought she had finished a while ago. Oh well no difference either way for me I suppose

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:55 pm

So prior to going to law school, I worked in a public relations group which required me to work for up to a couple months in different states. For example, I worked over the course of several months across Pennsylvania in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Harrisburg. I am applying to several judges in states where this type of connection is the only connection I have with their city or state. Is this too tenuous or forced a geographic connection to address in a cover letter? Do y'all think it would come across like I am grasping at straws? Current / prior clerks: what do you think?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby lolwat » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:39 pm

So prior to going to law school, I worked in a public relations group which required me to work for up to a couple months in different states. For example, I worked over the course of several months across Pennsylvania in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Harrisburg. I am applying to several judges in states where this type of connection is the only connection I have with their city or state. Is this too tenuous or forced a geographic connection to address in a cover letter? Do y'all think it would come across like I am grasping at straws? Current / prior clerks: what do you think?


To me it just depends how you present it . . . my district is flyover and most of the people that talk about ties or something grew up here and just went somewhere else for LS because there are a lack of good LS's in the state. Since you don't have those kinds of ties, I'd personally find it disingenuous if your cover letter tried to play off your "ties" as anything like that. OTOH, I wouldn't mind it if you pointed out that you've worked for several months in those areas and enjoyed it / know what it's like living/working there / wouldn't mind spending a year there. I certainly do understand that for many people, they don't really have ties to many markets, and yet are looking for jobs in those markets because, well, the jobs exist . . . especially in a clerkship context.

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Postby Myself » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:35 pm

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:40 am

Assume you have a COA clerkship with a non-feeder judge. Is there any problem with applying to a different, feeder judge that is in that same circuit? Would it offend the non-feeder judge?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby lolwat » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:15 am

ajax adonis wrote:Put yourself in the clerk's or judge's shoes. If you read what you wrote to them, would you believe them and actually think that they had some real connection?

Also, sometimes, if you don't have the ties, you don't have the ties.

P.S. For me, all my CLs looked the same. I did the thin versions of CLs with pretty much just the essentials, and not too much personalization or detail. Didn't really seem to hurt me.


I will note that I've had a judge point out that my generic CL was very . . . poor (lack of detail, not due to any typos) -- he was one that would have preferred detail and personalization. I had an interview but not an offer. There are also several other judges that want some type of personalization or detail -- Lee (E.D. Va.) and Wardlaw (9th) are the ones off the top of my head that I can think of. At least they make it obvious that's what they're looking for.

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Postby Myself » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:30 pm

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby spleenworship » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:40 pm

Is what I'm seeing is that this thread is for COA clerkships?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:55 pm

spleenworship wrote:Is what I'm seeing is that this thread is for COA clerkships?

It is for any and all clerkships (CoA/Dist Ct/State/Fed/Magistrate/Bankruptcy/etc), though I suspect the people in this thread lean heavily towards fed CoA/Dist Ct.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby nhs » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:34 pm

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:54 pm

Anyone on here get a screener with Aldisert? I assume it's now too late to hear about a full interview?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby spleenworship » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:16 pm

nhs wrote:
nhs wrote:Checking in.

School range: DNCG
Rank: Top 10%
LR?: Yes
Published?: No
Recs: All professors. Should be strong (I hope).
2L/3L/Alum?: 2L
Where applying?: Aiming for COA, geographically flexible.
Any other factors: No


Circling back now that my cycle is over. Sent approximately 150 applications, got two interviews with COA judges, landed one offer. It's rough out there. I feel lucky that it worked out for me.

Advice to future applicants: have your application materials ready to go (i.e., in stamped and addressed envelopes) before fall exams or during winter break. The minute you have all your fall grades, update relevant materials and send them out. Every time you have something notable to update with (publication, journal elections, spring grades, etc.) send that out as a an update/"LOCI". The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Timing is by far the most critical element, so get your application in front of a clerk or JA's eyes as frequently as possible... you never know when a judge will decide to start hiring.



I thought they couldn't see them before June 28th? Should I have gotten my apps in to federal judges months ago?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby nhs » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:20 pm

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:27 pm

spleenworship wrote:
nhs wrote:I thought they couldn't see them before June 28th? Should I have gotten my apps in to federal judges months ago?

Judges who only accept applications through OSCAR and follow the hiring plan couldn't see applications before June 28. More and more judges don't follow the plan, and will look at paper applications sent before then. Honestly, it's kind of a shitshow these days and I think sending earlier is much safer than sending on-plan.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby Flips88 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:30 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
nhs wrote:I thought they couldn't see them before June 28th? Should I have gotten my apps in to federal judges months ago?

Judges who only accept applications through OSCAR and follow the hiring plan couldn't see applications before June 28. More and more judges don't follow the plan, and will look at paper applications sent before then. Honestly, it's kind of a shitshow these days and I think sending earlier is much safer than sending on-plan.

Yeah, the Plan is basically dead. It was supposed to be in late August as per usual but in March or April the people summarily moved it up by 2 months to the end of June to try to stay relevant. Realistically, if you have good credentials, you should be applying in like January/February. The later you get, the bigger the pool of applicants is and the fewer judges there are also. This whole process is about the biggest, hottest mess you could imagine.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby spleenworship » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:33 pm

Flips88 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
nhs wrote:I thought they couldn't see them before June 28th? Should I have gotten my apps in to federal judges months ago?

Judges who only accept applications through OSCAR and follow the hiring plan couldn't see applications before June 28. More and more judges don't follow the plan, and will look at paper applications sent before then. Honestly, it's kind of a shitshow these days and I think sending earlier is much safer than sending on-plan.

Yeah, the Plan is basically dead. It was supposed to be in late August as per usual but in March or April the people summarily moved it up by 2 months to the end of June to try to stay relevant. Realistically, if you have good credentials, you should be applying in like January/February. The later you get, the bigger the pool of applicants is and the fewer judges there are also. This whole process is about the biggest, hottest mess you could imagine.



Wow. So applying to district judges (I wasn't competitive for COAs) between June 21-27 was a big mistake then (except for that 1 who said he was following the plan).

Oops. Way to go for my TT career services office.

ETA: At least I got a state SC interview. Gotta be happy about that I guess.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby Flips88 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:42 pm

spleenworship wrote:Wow. So applying to district judges (I wasn't competitive for COAs) between June 21-27 was a big mistake then (except for that 1 who said he was following the plan).

Oops. Way to go for my TT career services office.

ETA: At least I got a state SC interview. Gotta be happy about that I guess.

Yeah, I mean, the Plan is just a difficult way to snag one because so many people apply. Judges in big cities get 800+ applications for 1 or 2 spots. Even for flyover districts, they're getting several hundred applications because it's so easy to apply. It's quite the crapshoot.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby spleenworship » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:56 pm

School range: T2
Rank: approx top 20%
LR?: secondary journal
Published?: nope
Recs?: 3, a dean and 2 profs
2L/3L/Alum?: rising 3L
Where applying?: WDTX (1), EDMI (2), DNM (2), an unnamed state supreme (5)
Any other factors: Ive taken classes with or met several of the state justices. Apps didn't go in until June.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:24 pm

[/quote] Wow. So applying to district judges (I wasn't competitive for COAs) between June 21-27 was a big mistake then (except for that 1 who said he was following the plan).

Oops. Way to go for my TT career services office.

ETA: At least I got a state SC interview. Gotta be happy about that I guess.[/quote]

It's a damned if you and damned if you don't scenario. Send the application in early before the judge is ready to review and run the risk of it getting buried in the stack when the time comes to start looking through it. Too late and the judge could have well started interviews already and you won't know. So I think it's more gray than the responses have been thus far except for the fact that it's an overall crapshoot. Hit the judge at the right time in the cycle on the right day and you will be in luck.

The single most important thing you can do in the clerkship cycle is remember to follow directions. If the directions say keep the writing sample to X pages, do it. If it says submit a personalized cover letter do so. My judge, like most of them, has a strict do not call chambers policy and does answer the phone. When someone calls inquiring about the clerkship for whatever reason they're automatically rejected by the judge for failure to follow directions and unnecessarily disrupting chambers.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:36 pm

Pp are you clerking for a COA or district court judge?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 02/08/13

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wow. So applying to district judges (I wasn't competitive for COAs) between June 21-27 was a big mistake then (except for that 1 who said he was following the plan).

Oops. Way to go for my TT career services office.

ETA: At least I got a state SC interview. Gotta be happy about that I guess.[/quote]

It's a damned if you and damned if you don't scenario. Send the application in early before the judge is ready to review and run the risk of it getting buried in the stack when the time comes to start looking through it. Too late and the judge could have well started interviews already and you won't know. So I think it's more gray than the responses have been thus far except for the fact that it's an overall crapshoot. Hit the judge at the right time in the cycle on the right day and you will be in luck.

The single most important thing you can do in the clerkship cycle is remember to follow directions. If the directions say keep the writing sample to X pages, do it. If it says submit a personalized cover letter do so. My judge, like most of them, has a strict do not call chambers policy and does answer the phone. When someone calls inquiring about the clerkship for whatever reason they're automatically rejected by the judge for failure to follow directions and unnecessarily disrupting chambers.[/quote]
Do policies like this generally apply to calls from recommenders and parlays?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Wow. So applying to district judges (I wasn't competitive for COAs) between June 21-27 was a big mistake then (except for that 1 who said he was following the plan).

Oops. Way to go for my TT career services office.

ETA: At least I got a state SC interview. Gotta be happy about that I guess.


It's a damned if you and damned if you don't scenario. Send the application in early before the judge is ready to review and run the risk of it getting buried in the stack when the time comes to start looking through it. Too late and the judge could have well started interviews already and you won't know. So I think it's more gray than the responses have been thus far except for the fact that it's an overall crapshoot. Hit the judge at the right time in the cycle on the right day and you will be in luck.

The single most important thing you can do in the clerkship cycle is remember to follow directions. If the directions say keep the writing sample to X pages, do it. If it says submit a personalized cover letter do so. My judge, like most of them, has a strict do not call chambers policy and does answer the phone. When someone calls inquiring about the clerkship for whatever reason they're automatically rejected by the judge for failure to follow directions and unnecessarily disrupting chambers.[/quote]
Do policies like this generally apply to calls from recommenders and parlays?[/quote]

If it is a cold-call from professors who have no connection to the judge, I would say that falls into the do not call category. If it's a professor who doesn't have a connection, but is nationally or locally known then yes.

Like most clerkship related issues, parlays are a judge by judge issue. My judge does not entertain parlay calls or inquiries. If you call regarding a parlay, you will get a standard we will contact you if you are selected to interview and you will not be interviewed subsequently. Between general inquiries (specifically the "Uhh yeah has the judge made any decisions regarding hiring?" not so subtly masking the "Where is my interview/notification?" request) and the parlays a moderate number of candidates just unknowingly cut themselves. From what I understand, the parlay phone call is seen as presumptive on the applicant's part that because you will be interviewing with X in the same courthouse/city/remotely similar geographic location you will be a viable candidate here. The judge understands the travel costs/hassle of time and scheduling and, like most judges, is willing to Skype with candidates or interview via telephone. Just don't rush him/her and try to disrupt what is a highly personal selection process. The judge knows there are tons of good candidates to choose from and they need to work with their clerks closely for one or more years. They need to make the right choice or the entire chambers takes a step back productivity wise.

So basically, call at your own risk if OSCAR states Do Not Contact Chambers. At the very least you're demonstrating that you cannot follow basic instructions. At the most, you've just lost a potential job opportunity.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Citizen Genet » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:40 am

Or call from a different number than your own and don't identify yourself.




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