2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a tad confused due to my ignorance. OSCAR isn't open yet. I know a lot of judges are off plan. But, with the amount of people stating they have had interviews and stuff I have become nervous, are you guys alums?

A LOT of judges are off plan. Some of the interviewees are doubtless alums, but some aren't. (I've seen rising 3Ls in other threads talk about having clerkships lined up.)

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:26 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a tad confused due to my ignorance. OSCAR isn't open yet. I know a lot of judges are off plan. But, with the amount of people stating they have had interviews and stuff I have become nervous, are you guys alums?

A LOT of judges are off plan. Some of the interviewees are doubtless alums, but some aren't. (I've seen rising 3Ls in other threads talk about having clerkships lined up.)

I wouldn't be surprised if over half of judges are off plan.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:40 am

bk1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a tad confused due to my ignorance. OSCAR isn't open yet. I know a lot of judges are off plan. But, with the amount of people stating they have had interviews and stuff I have become nervous, are you guys alums?

A LOT of judges are off plan. Some of the interviewees are doubtless alums, but some aren't. (I've seen rising 3Ls in other threads talk about having clerkships lined up.)

I wouldn't be surprised if over half of judges are off plan.


Many of the purportedly on plan judges are 100% full of shit. My good friend (rising 3L) got a clerkship from a D. Ct. judge that was listed as on plan, no paper apps.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:33 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a tad confused due to my ignorance. OSCAR isn't open yet. I know a lot of judges are off plan. But, with the amount of people stating they have had interviews and stuff I have become nervous, are you guys alums?

A LOT of judges are off plan. Some of the interviewees are doubtless alums, but some aren't. (I've seen rising 3Ls in other threads talk about having clerkships lined up.)

I wouldn't be surprised if over half of judges are off plan.


Many of the purportedly on plan judges are 100% full of shit. My good friend (rising 3L) got a clerkship from a D. Ct. judge that was listed as on plan, no paper apps.

Also true, though my statement was speculation on reality not what judges nominally say.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:00 pm

I feel as if I am fucked since I already had a steep hill to climb since I am at a TT. Wondering if it is even worth the effort at this point.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:01 pm

Have you sent out applications? If not, how much time would it take you to send out applications? I mean, you can't win if you don't play - what would it be taking time away from?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:11 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Have you sent out applications? If not, how much time would it take you to send out applications? I mean, you can't win if you don't play - what would it be taking time away from?


Idk. I started drafting and finalizing my apps last night. I'll probably send out 20-25 to home state and some flyovers before the release date. My LORs don't have to be finalized when I finalize my apps right? Hopefully my letters can just uploaded whenever, because I only got to asking them like 2 weeks ago.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:13 pm

Your letters don't have to be there when you finalize the apps - you can add them after you submit your materials - but you want to make sure they get there before the date when the applications are released. Otherwise you run the risk of the judge ditching your application for being incomplete.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby lolwat » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:20 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Have you sent out applications? If not, how much time would it take you to send out applications? I mean, you can't win if you don't play - what would it be taking time away from?


Yeah this. None of the advice I ever give here is intended to imply "don't apply because you have no chance." It's only to give a rough estimate of your chances and advice on how to maximize your chances. There's plenty of situations where someone (here or otherwise) gets a clerkship that just seems totally random -- the judge never hired from the school before, kid isn't in the top 10% of their class, etc etc. I almost had that happen with a 9th Cir. clerkship where the judge hadn't hired from my school in like 10 years (and had only ever hired twice from my school in her entire time on the bench) and interviewed me anyway. Some guy in the legal employment forum a week or two ago basically networked their way into a federal clerkship (IIRC, they had unimpressive stats from a TT school). Sometimes people just win a mini-lottery. My only advice there is to go in with your best shot and know your chances -- don't be discouraged if you don't get anything.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:27 pm

Current clerk here and I get the distinctive feeling from both my judge along with others in the same district and other clerks scattered across the country is that federal clerkships are becoming more alum oriented. It would not surprise me if an increasing number of third years do not get positions with the way the current plan is structured.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:38 pm

lolwat wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Have you sent out applications? If not, how much time would it take you to send out applications? I mean, you can't win if you don't play - what would it be taking time away from?


Yeah this. None of the advice I ever give here is intended to imply "don't apply because you have no chance." It's only to give a rough estimate of your chances and advice on how to maximize your chances. There's plenty of situations where someone (here or otherwise) gets a clerkship that just seems totally random -- the judge never hired from the school before, kid isn't in the top 10% of their class, etc etc. I almost had that happen with a 9th Cir. clerkship where the judge hadn't hired from my school in like 10 years (and had only ever hired twice from my school in her entire time on the bench) and interviewed me anyway. Some guy in the legal employment forum a week or two ago basically networked their way into a federal clerkship (IIRC, they had unimpressive stats from a TT school). Sometimes people just win a mini-lottery. My only advice there is to go in with your best shot and know your chances -- don't be discouraged if you don't get anything.


Yea I know - that is my frame of mind. But, in reading past postings, it just seems like I have hamstrung myself since I will only be applying to judges on OSCAR (who may or may not be on the plan really) and am extremely late for judges who are off the plan. I guess I can wait out a year and apply as an alum though next year if nothing lines up.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current clerk here and I get the distinctive feeling from both my judge along with others in the same district and other clerks scattered across the country is that federal clerkships are becoming more alum oriented. It would not surprise me if an increasing number of third years do not get positions with the way the current plan is structured.

You are surely right, although this is not really new news and has been a long time coming. It is primarily confined to district judges IME.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby lolwat » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:47 pm

Yea I know - that is my frame of mind. But, in reading past postings, it just seems like I have hamstrung myself since I will only be applying to judges on OSCAR (who may or may not be on the plan really) and am extremely late for judges who are off the plan. I guess I can wait out a year and apply as an alum though next year if nothing lines up.


Yes, your timing and applying only via OSCAR does reduce your chances -- no reason to give up yet, though. If you really want to clerk, openings pop up throughout the year even after the hiring plan -- sometimes even needing immediate hires (either newly confirmed or an incoming clerk had issues come up and couldn't start, etc).

And applying as an alum the year after is how I got my clerkship. I struck out during 3L :P

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:51 pm

lolwat wrote:
Yea I know - that is my frame of mind. But, in reading past postings, it just seems like I have hamstrung myself since I will only be applying to judges on OSCAR (who may or may not be on the plan really) and am extremely late for judges who are off the plan. I guess I can wait out a year and apply as an alum though next year if nothing lines up.


Yes, your timing and applying only via OSCAR does reduce your chances -- no reason to give up yet, though. If you really want to clerk, openings pop up throughout the year even after the hiring plan -- sometimes even needing immediate hires (either newly confirmed or an incoming clerk had issues come up and couldn't start, etc).

And applying as an alum the year after is how I got my clerkship. I struck out during 3L :P


Thanks, man. At least there is some hope even if i strike out now.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lolwat wrote:
Yea I know - that is my frame of mind. But, in reading past postings, it just seems like I have hamstrung myself since I will only be applying to judges on OSCAR (who may or may not be on the plan really) and am extremely late for judges who are off the plan. I guess I can wait out a year and apply as an alum though next year if nothing lines up.


Yes, your timing and applying only via OSCAR does reduce your chances -- no reason to give up yet, though. If you really want to clerk, openings pop up throughout the year even after the hiring plan -- sometimes even needing immediate hires (either newly confirmed or an incoming clerk had issues come up and couldn't start, etc).

And applying as an alum the year after is how I got my clerkship. I struck out during 3L :P


Thanks, man. At least there is some hope even if i strike out now.


My current plan is to view my impending strikeout as a training exercise for the real round of post-plan, Alumni targeted hiring.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:44 pm

Hey all, I'm applying as an alum and just got a feeler e-mail from a current clerk saying my application would be forwarded to the judge but the clerk doesn't when chambers' application deadline will be or when interviews will be conducted. It ended with something along the lines of, "We hope to keep you up to date." Should I respond or just leave it as is? Is this a good sign?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby gdane » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:59 pm

I'm using an appellate brief as a writing sample. Can I get rid of the table of contents, table of cases and statutes, and just leave the argument? I know less is better, but I dunno if that stuff is crucial to include.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:59 pm

You don't need any of that stuff.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby gdane » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:22 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:You don't need any of that stuff.

Thank you.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:05 pm

Considering the madness that is the off-plan process, when should rising 2Ls start concerning themselves with Circuit and competitive District applications for 2015/2016? Should our ducks be in a row (recommenders lined up, writing sample done, etc) by early Fall?

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a tad confused due to my ignorance. OSCAR isn't open yet. I know a lot of judges are off plan. But, with the amount of people stating they have had interviews and stuff I have become nervous, are you guys alums?


I'm a 2L (I guess 3L now), and this was an off-plan judge.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:Considering the madness that is the off-plan process, when should rising 2Ls start concerning themselves with Circuit and competitive District applications for 2015/2016? Should our ducks be in a row (recommenders lined up, writing sample done, etc) by early Fall?


As someone who just went through the process as a 2L, I'd say you should be ready to send apps to the most competitive COA judges as soon as fall semester grades come out (so, January at most schools). That ideally would mean you'd have recommendations ready by then as well. Make clear in your cover letter that law review elections haven't happened yet, and then send an addendum when they do. I sent some apps in late Feb. after that stuff had happened, to make sure my resume was as strong as possible, and it was already too late for some judges.

With that said, it was also clearly much too early for some other judges. The timing of this process is almost impossible to gauge, but do your best to find information about when individual judges have hired in past years and are hiring in your year. Send early, but only to those judges that will actually consider your application early. Oscar posts from the previous hiring cycle (meaning this one) are your friend in this regard. If a judge updated her profile in early February 2013, and hasn't since, and the info says she has completed hiring, you can put 2 and 2 together.

Oh, and connections + professor calls rule all. That's more important than any of my above advice.

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Considering the madness that is the off-plan process, when should rising 2Ls start concerning themselves with Circuit and competitive District applications for 2015/2016? Should our ducks be in a row (recommenders lined up, writing sample done, etc) by early Fall?

I think early fall is still a little early; I think it would make sense to move after you get first semester 2L grades (though yes, you would probably need to contact letter writers before that). That's a rough guess, though, and it may be affected by how competitive the judges you're looking at are. (The REALLY competitive hire 2 yrs out, it seems.)

(Scooped!)

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:37 am

Accepted a 6th Circuit offer; equal parts grateful and flabbergasted. Good luck to everybody!

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Re: 2014-2015 Clerkship Application Thread - OP Updated 04/19/13

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:52 am

Any updates on Srinivasan beyond the previously reported single 2013 hire? Any word on his hiring situation for future terms?




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