Clerks Taking Questions

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:41 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Good luck to all the hiring plan people tomorrow! Remember: voice mail is your friend, but don't wait too long to call back.


I actually, as ridiculous as it will sound, made a spreadsheet with the phone numbers of each judge I applied to, sorted by area code, so that I can quickly determine who's calling and pick up if it's someone I at all like, and/or someone I could logistically schedule early.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I actually, as ridiculous as it will sound, made a spreadsheet with the phone numbers of each judge I applied to, sorted by area code, so that I can quickly determine who's calling and pick up if it's someone I at all like, and/or someone I could logistically schedule early.


I'd be very, very happy with 202-354.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:02 pm

Sorry for the silly post, but I'm a bit new to this. G.T.L. Rev. (or anyone else) -- if we think we might get more than a couple of clerkship calls, should we screen by area code? Or take the call? How long is too long before calling back? Thanks for your help.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry for the silly post, but I'm a bit new to this. G.T.L. Rev. (or anyone else) -- if we think we might get more than a couple of clerkship calls, should we screen by area code? Or take the call? How long is too long before calling back? Thanks for your help.


The thing is that unless you have the memory of a god, there's no way you're going to be able to look up an area code and necessarily know who that is. Because judges sit in the most random places. Like quick, which judge sits in Cheyenne? Which really solid Third Circuit judge sits in Duncansville? And of course, some cities have some really good judges in them and some mediocre ones you may not like. There are feeders in Pasadena and complete non-feeders in Pasadena. So that's why my spreadsheet thing is a great idea.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:01 pm

I think in general you should let calls go to voicemail.


I agree 100% with this, although I do remember our clerkship advisor warning us that a few judges might be insulted that you let the call go to voicemail. Not sure you'd want to work for one of those, though!

The calculus on those points is necessarily different for each candidate. If you have about a 4.0 from HLS, you should be more comfortable waiting than if you are barely in the clerkship game to begin with.


This this this. For example, I would not suggest that anyone at my school screen clerkship calls unless they were the top 1-2 people in the class. My school's just not that awesome for clerkships. I got lucky. Of course, most people who frequent these forums seem to have gone to better schools than I. Just a word of caution to reassess where you really are in the clerkship applicant pool before screening your calls too hard.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby traydeuce » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:15 pm

How comfortable should a 3.9/top 1% from gulc be? The other day I learned that the most calls any gulc student received last year was seven, and I'm not main journal, so I don't feel overly safe. Further, here's what I really don't get. Outside of multiple interviews in the same city/courthouse, how many interviews can one, logistically, schedule in the same day? So if you get 5 calls, do you have to bump one from a two-day schedule?

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:50 pm

traydeuce wrote:How comfortable should a 3.9/top 1% from gulc be? The other day I learned that the most calls any gulc student received last year was seven, and I'm not main journal, so I don't feel overly safe. Further, here's what I really don't get. Outside of multiple interviews in the same city/courthouse, how many interviews can one, logistically, schedule in the same day? So if you get 5 calls, do you have to bump one from a two-day schedule?


I would imagine at least several calls as long as you didn't focus solely on 2/9/DC/feeders.

I don't think you can logistically schedule more than 2-3 interviews in a day and expect to make them all. I've not done this so I can't be sure.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby traydeuce » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:55 pm

lolwat wrote:
traydeuce wrote:How comfortable should a 3.9/top 1% from gulc be? The other day I learned that the most calls any gulc student received last year was seven, and I'm not main journal, so I don't feel overly safe. Further, here's what I really don't get. Outside of multiple interviews in the same city/courthouse, how many interviews can one, logistically, schedule in the same day? So if you get 5 calls, do you have to bump one from a two-day schedule?


I would imagine at least several calls as long as you didn't focus solely on 2/9/DC/feeders.

I don't think you can logistically schedule more than 2-3 interviews in a day and expect to make them all. I've not done this so I can't be sure.


That's what's really scary about this process, the logistics. For example, it takes 5 hours, with the time change, to get from D.C. to various cities in Southern California. You leave at 7, you get in at 12, maybe you get to his chambers at 1:00, 12:45, and you're there for an hour and often more. Unless you get 2 interviews in that region, on that day, you may spend a whole day to talk to one judge. Though I suppose, on further reflection, the obvious move here is to fly there the previous night, if possible.
Last edited by traydeuce on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

traydeuce
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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby traydeuce » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:57 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
lolwat wrote:
traydeuce wrote:How comfortable should a 3.9/top 1% from gulc be? The other day I learned that the most calls any gulc student received last year was seven, and I'm not main journal, so I don't feel overly safe. Further, here's what I really don't get. Outside of multiple interviews in the same city/courthouse, how many interviews can one, logistically, schedule in the same day? So if you get 5 calls, do you have to bump one from a two-day schedule?


I would imagine at least several calls as long as you didn't focus solely on 2/9/DC/feeders.

I don't think you can logistically schedule more than 2-3 interviews in a day and expect to make them all. I've not done this so I can't be sure.

I think you could easily do 4 interviews in a day. Maybe more -- but 4 for sure. As far as comfort level goes, I think you should be confident that you will get some calls, but IIRC you are a transfer without LR, so not overly so.


This is assuming the 4 are all kind of near each other, right? I mean, I'm from Philly and applied to the whole EDPA - I could easily do 6 interviews in that building on a day if I got 6 calls. But once you factor in lengthy travel time I don't know.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Thanks again for taking our questions at this late hour, G. T. L. Rev. If a judge wants to interview us on certain dates (Sept. 15/16) but we already have interviews in another city not nearby for those days, is there any way to politely decline the interview?

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby traydeuce » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks again for taking our questions at this late hour, G. T. L. Rev. If a judge wants to interview us on certain dates (Sept. 15/16) but we already have interviews in another city not nearby for those days, is there any way to politely decline the interview?


I was hoping we could just say, can't make it, how about Monday? Or, if you're already scheduled for T/F, how about not picking up?

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:18 pm

traydeuce wrote:I was hoping we could just say, can't make it, how about Monday? Or, if you're already scheduled for T/F, how about not picking up?


As far as I know, you can just tell them you already have interviews scheduled on those days and can't logistically make it on those days. I see nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, not picking up is not cool.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby traydeuce » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:21 pm

lolwat wrote:
traydeuce wrote:I was hoping we could just say, can't make it, how about Monday? Or, if you're already scheduled for T/F, how about not picking up?


As far as I know, you can just tell them you already have interviews scheduled on those days and can't logistically make it on those days. I see nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, not picking up is not cool.


I thought letting things go to voicemail was de rigeur, for the most part.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:31 pm

traydeuce wrote:I thought letting things go to voicemail was de rigeur, for the most part.


My bad. I saw your post in context as "don't pick up" in the sense of "just ignore it." Letting it go to voicemail is fine, but get back to the judge anyway and ask to interview on a later date or decline the interview. Don't just let it go to voicemail and then never get back to them.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:01 am

Maybe it's just me, but if I really want to interview with a judge but am booked on the offered dates, I say "sorry judge's clerk, I really, really would like the opportunity to interview with judge, but I have [other interviews, my own wedding, a trial if I'm an alum] on that date. I'd love to schedule any time before or after, whichever is most convenient for the judge, and I'm using a stash of miles so travel costs aren't an issue.*"

I've done this twice, and both times, the clerk/secretary has said "well, we could do a day earlier/later/whatever." If you really are interested and really are booked, everyone will work out a time.

* Say this even if you don't have miles or can't use them. You'll be much more likely to get the spot that's a day or two earlier than everyone else if you give the vibe that it's absolutely, positively no problem to fly from LA to NY on three days' notice.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:44 am

Trying to squeeze an non-OSCAR question in while I see GTL is posting before the big wave hits:

I'm a top of the class 2L at a T1 school where if you're on LR, you can't do Moot Court. There's an intramural Moot Court competition (brief/argument) that I *can* do this fall. I'm confident that I can go deep into the competition with a fair amount of effort, but obviously I'm also working hard to keep the grades up and do a strong job on LR assignments/Note for a run at a Board position (thankfully next summer's SA is just about wrapped up).

My question is how much value this competition would be to me in the CoA application process. If it's noticeable, I'll knock myself out to succeed. However, if it is of marginal benefit, it's a massive time sink and at my non T14 school, there's a very serious ding to my application packet if I fall even 1 or 2 class rankings (I may need to be top handful to be in the game)...

Relatedly, how much does my actual success in the competition play into the calculus here. That is to say, is a "semifinalist" basically rubbish (and a mere "participant" a strong negative)? In other words, do i have to WIN for it to help?

Thanks!

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:41 am

I am sure some of the 2Ls here are little anxious. Just want to make sure I have a solid timeline for this down:

Fall semester - get great grades, focus on getting note to publishable quality, establish good relationship with recommenders
December -ask recommenders for a letter that should be available to send by late February
January-February - gather application materials together, update resume, focus on getting note published, identify all COA judges want to apply to
March-May - apply to off-plan COA judges (and possibly some DCt judges too, though I'm not sure how many are off-plan that early)
June-July - apply to COA/DCt judges
September - apply to all on-plan judges

This seems incredibly obvious, but I want to make sure the general checklist is covered.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:59 am

Citizen Genet wrote:I am sure some of the 2Ls here are little anxious. Just want to make sure I have a solid timeline for this down:

Fall semester - get great grades, focus on getting note to publishable quality, establish good relationship with recommenders
December -ask recommenders for a letter that should be available to send by late February
January-February - gather application materials together, update resume, focus on getting note published, identify all COA judges want to apply to
March-May - apply to off-plan COA judges (and possibly some DCt judges too, though I'm not sure how many are off-plan that early)
June-July - apply to COA/DCt judges
September - apply to all on-plan judges

This seems incredibly obvious, but I want to make sure the general checklist is covered.


You left out the subtle, yet hardcore lobbying for EiC of Law Review (Fall through Election Date) -- and the super competitive off-plan apps go out immediately thereafter (I think - 2L here also! -- real advice would be appreciated as well)

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Citizen Genet wrote:I am sure some of the 2Ls here are little anxious. Just want to make sure I have a solid timeline for this down:

Fall semester - get great grades, focus on getting note to publishable quality, establish good relationship with recommenders
December -ask recommenders for a letter that should be available to send by late February
January-February - gather application materials together, update resume, focus on getting note published, identify all COA judges want to apply to
March-May - apply to off-plan COA judges (and possibly some DCt judges too, though I'm not sure how many are off-plan that early)
June-July - apply to COA/DCt judges
September - apply to all on-plan judges

This seems incredibly obvious, but I want to make sure the general checklist is covered.


You left out the subtle, yet hardcore lobbying for EiC of Law Review (Fall through Election Date) -- and the super competitive off-plan apps go out immediately thereafter (I think - 2L here also! -- real advice would be appreciated as well)

That's unnecessary. Being on the Board is always helpful, and EIC does look the best, but it can consume a ton of time depending on how the journal is run. Being in the Article or Note department is more than sufficient; plenty of people who aren't on the Board still get semi-feeder clerkships at my T10.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:55 pm

(Keep in mind I'm not GTL)

I'm a top of the class 2L at a T1 school where if you're on LR, you can't do Moot Court. There's an intramural Moot Court competition (brief/argument) that I *can* do this fall. I'm confident that I can go deep into the competition with a fair amount of effort, but obviously I'm also working hard to keep the grades up and do a strong job on LR assignments/Note for a run at a Board position (thankfully next summer's SA is just about wrapped up).


I believe grades and LR >>>>> Moot Court. There are judges that has "Yes" on moot court participation preferred but they are far, far less than LR and the grade cut-offs.

That general checklist seems fine. Just remember that what you need to do depends on where you are.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:58 pm

Just wanted to say that GTL's parlay script was very helpful. It doesn't necessarily work, but the calls aren't that awkward.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 pm

And now I have a more global question. So basically here I am with my stellar t14 grades but little else, and it's gotten me interviews with good judges in the 6th, 8th and 10th, along with an EDPA interview and potentially more from parlaying to the others. So a 2013 3d Cir hirer just wrote, and he asks me to say what I'm doing next year once I know. And it's starting to occur to me that - although one of the COA judges mentioned above apparently loves me - I might maximally leverage myself by clerking for a district and then shooting for one of the feeders that tends to hire district court clerks. Or just a circuit that isn't 6th, 8th or 10th. And, you know, as a practitioner, it might be nice to actually know anything about trial-level litigation before I go to a firm. Firms might actually be a tad concerned given that everything I've ever done is appellate.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:02 pm

lolwat wrote:(Keep in mind I'm not GTL)

Haha...all opinions are valued (within reason)

I'm a top of the class 2L at a T1 school where if you're on LR, you can't do Moot Court. There's an intramural Moot Court competition (brief/argument) that I *can* do this fall. I'm confident that I can go deep into the competition with a fair amount of effort, but obviously I'm also working hard to keep the grades up and do a strong job on LR assignments/Note for a run at a Board position (thankfully next summer's SA is just about wrapped up).


I believe grades and LR >>>>> Moot Court. There are judges that has "Yes" on moot court participation preferred but they are far, far less than LR and the grade cut-offs.

That general checklist seems fine. Just remember that what you need to do depends on where you are.


Just to clarify -- I am on Law Review. I was just wondering whether the intramural competition on top of LR had any value in comparison with the effort I'd need to put in.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:54 pm

Hey GTL (and others), I've been following this thread semi-religiously for the past few months; thanks so much for taking questions.

I'm a T2 to CCN transfer (starting 2L) and I'm hoping to do D.Ct 13-14, then CoA 14-15. Obviously great grades are a must but I was wondering how feasible this plan is without being on a journal. I'll be working hard this semester to get a great writing sample and hopefully get something published but, barring that, how does it look to judges that I don't have any journal at all?

Also, this may be a dumb question but I was wondering if you had any tips for making connections with potential recommenders. Obviously I really have only this semester to get solid recs (with a slight possibility for getting recs from spring semester professors) so any help is greatly appreciated; things to ask in office hours, ways to connect with them, etc.? I have one seminar with a well known professor but I'm sure everyone in the class will kissing ass for a possible leg up. Any tips to set myself apart from the pack?

Oh, also, I have lots of geographic mobility so I'll pretty much go anywhere. I apologize if these are dumb questions but I thought you may have some helpful advice since you've helped so many others.

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Re: Clerk, taking questions for a bit

Postby traydeuce » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:28 pm

I was a t35 to Georgetown transfer (screwed up the transfer process) and I landed on the Immigration Journal... and I have 3 COA interviews. Immigration might as well be no journal. I'm also top 5 out of 700 students, so there was that. I think you definitely would have a chance with District Courts, if your grades are great.

As to seminars, don't kiss ass; do the following: (a) write an A paper, (b) visit a couple times in office hours, (c) talk in class - not all the time or anything, but thoughtfully when you do speak. And that's all you need.




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