Clerks Taking Questions

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rpupkin
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:HYS. I'm sure this is answered somewhere so feel free to point me there. How receptive are judges to explanations of one semester/quarter of straight Ps if the rest of the transcript is a decent mix (probably between top 40% and top third)? When would that conversation even come up, or would it not even be necessary? I've assumed for the most part that they wouldn't care as to the why. Only looking at district clerkships, c/o 2017 looking for 2018 or 2019.

There are judges who would be concerned about a bunch of Ps on a student's transcript, particularly if those Ps occurred during 1L. But those judges have mechanisms in place to screen such transcripts out. They wouldn't invite you in for an interview in the first place, so you would never have the opportunity to explain your grades.

But there are plenty of judges who are open to hiring Top 40% HYS students. And if one of those judges calls you in for an interview, it's very unlikely that your semester/quarter of straight Ps would come up. In general, interviews are for fit only; the judge has already decided that you have the requisite credentials to clerk.

I'm aware of one instance in which a judge asked an applicant about grades during an interview. A friend of mine got a "P" in contracts, and the judge--a fairly well-known Ninth Circuit judge--reportedly said something like: "I consider Contracts the most important 1L class. What happened there?" The story stands out because it's the only time I've heard of a judge asking an interviewee about grades. (My friend says he gave a nervous, rambling answer. He got offered the clerkship the next day.)

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rpupkin
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hello Clerks!
Is it weird to receive random emails from people asking about a current/former clerkship experience or is this par for the course? OCS keeps suggesting this, but it seems odd if I don't know the person or they aren't an alum.
Thanks!

If you know the person, it's obviously fine. If the person is an alum of your law school, it's fine. But if you have no connection at all to the person, then I'm inclined to agree with you: it's weird to cold email.

ETA: Your question asks about "current/former" clerks. No matter what, definitely don't email current clerks. That's risky even if you have a connection to the clerk; it's basically application suicide if you have no connection.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:07 am

This is kind of two questions mixed into one. First, how would one go about listing a board position for a journal on their resume? Just list the position where "member" would otherwise be?

Second, when is it appropriate to list it on a resume, if the board position is for the 2016-2017 year? I want judges to know as I'm applying now, but I'm not entirely sure of the appropriate way to list it. Thanks!

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is kind of two questions mixed into one. First, how would one go about listing a board position for a journal on their resume? Just list the position where "member" would otherwise be?

Second, when is it appropriate to list it on a resume, if the board position is for the 2016-2017 year? I want judges to know as I'm applying now, but I'm not entirely sure of the appropriate way to list it. Thanks!

Yes.

As soon as you're selected for the position. We all know you haven't actually done the job yet if you're at the beginning of 2L.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:44 pm

What would generally look worse on a clerkship application: a median/below grade, or a drop that doesn't affect your GPA (and you had legit personal reasons for a shitty semester)?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:45 pm

Can anyone with significant loans speak to the benefits of clerking twice?

I will have ~$150k in debt by the time I graduate, and I am currently debating whether to clerk once vs. twice (several upcoming interviews). I don't know whether I'd like to do trial advocacy or appellate work after law school. Questions:

-Are you able to make loan payments on a clerk's salary?
-Are you afraid of possible losing out on $125-200k+ in salary due to missing out on working as a junior associate?
-If you're not gunning for SCOTUS clerkship/professorship and have sig. loans, why did you decide to clerk twice?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:31 pm

anyone know whether the 2d cir (40 foley) has a parking garage for federal employees

ETA: and if not, what do SDNY and 2d cir clerks that come with cars generally do. just keep it outside the city?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:28 am

Stupid question:

I'm at HLS; we don't have our first semester grades back yet.

I'm looking at judges who who have OSCAR language like "Will accept 2L applicants after 3 semesters of grades."

So uh...I need to wait to apply until grades come out?

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grand inquisitor
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby grand inquisitor » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:Stupid question:

I'm at HLS; we don't have our first semester grades back yet.

I'm looking at judges who who have OSCAR language like "Will accept 2L applicants after 3 semesters of grades."

So uh...I need to wait to apply until grades come out?

if the judge goes to the trouble to post that sort of requirement on oscar, I would abide by it

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby emkay625 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:Stupid question:

I'm at HLS; we don't have our first semester grades back yet.

I'm looking at judges who who have OSCAR language like "Will accept 2L applicants after 3 semesters of grades."

So uh...I need to wait to apply until grades come out?


If the OSCAR instructions specifically say that, yes, you should wait. If they don't, apply now.

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bk1
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby bk1 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:14 pm

I'd note that not all judges keep on top of their OSCAR profiles and can forget to update them or change things when their preferences or status changes (e.g., I've seen a profile say something like "not currently hiring" even when a judge was hiring). Generally it's good to follow, but if you hear differently from other sources then I wouldn't treat OSCAR as definitive.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:23 pm

How many Oscar applications does a typical Dist/Circuit judge get? Dozens? Hundreds? A thousand?

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grand inquisitor
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby grand inquisitor » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:29 pm

i think my year we were looking at about 400

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How many Oscar applications does a typical Dist/Circuit judge get? Dozens? Hundreds? A thousand?


When I interviewed with one NDIL judge, he said he received about 200 applications and called 20 in for interviews for 2 spots.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How many Oscar applications does a typical Dist/Circuit judge get? Dozens? Hundreds? A thousand?


When I interviewed with one NDIL judge, he said he received about 200 applications and called 20 in for interviews for 2 spots.


for reference, an SDNY judge I worked for received ~500 applications over several months for three openings, including mailed and OSCAR. A D.Mass judge I interviewed for told me he called 12 interviewees for 2 spots. So it varies, but I'd say 1000 is an upper bound but any popular district will receive at a minimum 100 applications online. For interviews, probably between four and ten per opening.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:How many Oscar applications does a typical Dist/Circuit judge get? Dozens? Hundreds? A thousand?


My district judge in a large city in flyover country got about 300 applications for my spot. They interviewed 8 people.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:53 pm

This might be a weird question, but I didn't see an answer anywhere. Post 1L we received percentile ranks. We will not receive readjusted ones until post 2L. If my GPA goes down a little after 2L fall, can I still put my percentile rank from my 1L year on my resume, or would that be misleading? Thanks!

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bk1
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby bk1 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This might be a weird question, but I didn't see an answer anywhere. Post 1L we received percentile ranks. We will not receive readjusted ones until post 2L. If my GPA goes down a little after 2L fall, can I still put my percentile rank from my 1L year on my resume, or would that be misleading? Thanks!

I would put it but note when the rank applied (e.g., 1L Rank - Top 10%). I would not list your former rank without being clear when it applied and would not imply it applies to your current GPA.

cheaptilts
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby cheaptilts » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This might be a weird question, but I didn't see an answer anywhere. Post 1L we received percentile ranks. We will not receive readjusted ones until post 2L. If my GPA goes down a little after 2L fall, can I still put my percentile rank from my 1L year on my resume, or would that be misleading? Thanks!

I would ask your CSO and/or clerkship counselor. Even if your school has policies "on the books," they have a vested interest in ensuring that every student seeking a clerkship gets one. They'll be able to steer you in the right direction, and you'll be surprised--they may even disclose your actual rank/percentile to you and grant permission to you that on your clerkship applications.

tl;dr, you should probably ask your clerkship office/CSO

onionz
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby onionz » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:49 am

So I feel like I already know the answer to this question but I'll ask it anyway. Applied on OSCAR to a clerkship and one of the first things I saw when I googled the judge's name was a current clerk's social media profile. Looks like I actually know a lot of the same people, but not this person. It'd be weird to reach out and say anything right? I feel partly like I have little left to lose, since OSCAR is such an abyss that there's no guarantee I get looked at anyway. I guess I could try to come up with a question to seem less transparent, but they'll know what I'm doing. Thoughts?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:41 pm

You could ask someone you both know to reach out to the clerk and ask if they'd mind you getting in contact - I've had people do that. Although I know people here have said that getting in touch with current (as opposed to past) clerks is a faux pas (for myself, it wasn't weird getting connected to the friend of a friend, but my clerking experience was also way more relaxed about this kind of etiquette stuff than what people here describe sometimes, so I'd be curious to see what others think).

If you do get in touch with this person I think you can be fairly straightforward - what has your experience clerking with this judge been like? What do they like to see in clerks? Though no, I wouldn't ask them directly to pull your application or anything - they will know that's what you're hoping will happen.

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rpupkin
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Although I know people here have said that getting in touch with current (as opposed to past) clerks is a faux pas

I'm one of those people. To clarify, here are my (made up) guidelines for cold contacting a current clerk at different stages of the hiring process.

1. Contacting clerk before submitting an application: very low risk. If you want to reach out to a current clerk you don't know, it's preferable to do so before you submit an application.

2. Contacting clerk after submitting an application but before hearing about an interview: low-to-medium risk. This is what the poster is contemplating, and it's probably fine. But tread lightly. If you sell yourself at all--if the clerk senses that you're using the conversation as a means to get your app pulled from the pile--it could work against you.

3. Contacting clerk after an interview is scheduled: high risk. I know of a judge who cancelled a scheduled interview because the interviewee contacted a current clerk the day before the interview. As Nony suggests, some judges won't care at all about this kind of thing. But other judges view such contact as tampering with the hiring process.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:03 pm

Oh, I should clarify, too, that I was imagining this contact as pre-application. I agree that it would be kind of weird to contact a current clerk post-application, and definitely weird to do so post-interview.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:01 pm

1L here, currently at least top 10%, probably better, at HYSCCN after fall grades. Are there clerkships I can apply for before more grades come out? I'd love to trick someone into hiring me before I have the opportunity to fuck this up.

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rpupkin
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:1L here, currently at least top 10%, probably better, at HYSCCN after fall grades. Are there clerkships I can apply for before more grades come out? I'd love to trick someone into hiring me before I have the opportunity to fuck this up.

Talk to your school's clerkship adviser.

There are now a small handful of judges who will consider hiring law students after one semester of grades, but, as far as I know, those judges are extremely selective. Top 10% isn't enough; you'll probably need to be among the top 3 to 5 students in your class, and your pre-law school credentials probably need to be impressive as well. That's especially true in your case, as you're obviously not at Y or S.




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