Clerks Taking Questions

Seek and share information about clerkship applications, clerkship hiring timelines, and post-clerkship employment opportunities.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about clerkship applications and clerkship hiring. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:33 pm

GeePee wrote:
kalvano wrote:That's probably too long. Cut it down to a 10-page excerpt. I've only seen one judge that was cool with a 30-page sample.


madame defarge wrote:
GeePee wrote:Sorry, perused the thread a while and couldn't find an answer to this question.

My writing sample (a note) is 27 pages, double spaced. Should I excerpt, single space it, or just leave it? I'd rather not print 1500 pages for 60 writing samples on my paper judges...


Definitely excerpt so that the sample is no more than 10-15 pages (double-spaced). No one wants to read through a long writing sample, especially when there are hundreds of applications to go through.


Thanks guys. That is what I expected, but wanted a sanity check to make sure that I wasn't screwing it up.
For what it's worth, several schools recommend their students send their entire note and simply reference a section or set of pages that are particularly representative. In my opinion this is the safer course. No judge is going to be upset that you've sent too much information as long as you point them to a smaller, readable chunk of information. I could see a judge being upset that you haven't sent enough.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thanks guys. That is what I expected, but wanted a sanity check to make sure that I wasn't screwing it up.
For what it's worth, several schools recommend their students send their entire note and simply reference a section or set of pages that are particularly representative. In my opinion this is the safer course. No judge is going to be upset that you've sent too much information as long as you point them to a smaller, readable chunk of information. I could see a judge being upset that you haven't sent enough.[/quote]

I have to disagree here. In my experience, no one wants to read a long writing sample. Plus, long writing samples greatly increase your risk for silly/stupid typos. Typically if they're reading your writing sample, you're pretty far along in the process. And, in my experience, if a chambers wants a longer, or an additional, writing sample, they will call or email you to ask for one.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For the poster who was asking about early judges, I will post11th Circuit judges because that's what I know:

Anderson: on plan
Barkett: on plan
Black: on plan, alumni early
Carnes: april
Cox: may
Dubina: not hiring
Edmondson: not hiring
Fay: ?
Hill: ?
Hull: on plan or later
Jordan: early summer?
Kravitch: on plan
Marcus: on plan
Martin: on plan, alumni early
Pryor: january
Tjoflat: ?
Wilson: ?


Judge Martin is probably done... I heard rumors that she was interviewing for her last slot in late June/early July.

Judge Pryor has, recently, hired people at the end of their 1L summer.

Judge Tjoflat tends to hire in the early summer.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:46 pm

SMU2013 wrote:This question may have already been asked and answered, and if so, I apologize. Is it better to submit an academic writing sample-i.e., law review comment or note-or is it better to submit a memo or brief? Looking forward to any feedback. Thanks.


Use the best writing sample you have (unless a judge specifies otherwise) -- it's far better to have a typo free/bluebook perfect work product writing sample than a less than perfect law review note. If a judge wants a second writing sample, they will contact you for one.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I've procrastinated till the last minute on applying to district court clerkships. There's a district where I've heard that the judges hire early (and are interviewing now) and I'd like to apply. However, some of the judges require undergraduate transcripts and it might take me a week to get them in the mail.

Since interviews are going on now and the judges could hire very soon, should I send in the rest of my application materials before I get the transcripts? Is this kind of thing frowned on? I have competitive stats for these positions if it makes any difference.


For all my clerkships applications, I used unofficial transcripts. I never had a judge ask for an official transcript. Two thoughts, though: (a) many prof's will reiterate your GPA/rank in their cover letter, so judges have an independent verification and (b) it's helpful for judges/clerks if your transcript indicates the professors for each class.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For the poster who was asking about early judges, I will post11th Circuit judges because that's what I know:

Anderson: on plan
Barkett: on plan
Black: on plan, alumni early
Carnes: april
Cox: may
Dubina: not hiring
Edmondson: not hiring
Fay: ?
Hill: ?
Hull: on plan or later
Jordan: early summer?
Kravitch: on plan
Marcus: on plan
Martin: on plan, alumni early
Pryor: january
Tjoflat: ?
Wilson: ?


Judge Martin is probably done... I heard rumors that she was interviewing for her last slot in late June/early July.

Judge Pryor has, recently, hired people at the end of their 1L summer.

Judge Tjoflat tends to hire in the early summer.

Martin is not done. The earliest Pryor has hired is this year, and it was in the winter of 2L year.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:49 pm

apparentlynew wrote:Also, in case I wasn't explicit - what judges do you know of who moved off-plan?


To reiterate the point that others have made, in this day and age, a judge is OFF-PLAN until proven otherwise.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Judge Martin is probably done... I heard rumors that she was interviewing for her last slot in late June/early July.

Judge Pryor has, recently, hired people at the end of their 1L summer.

Judge Tjoflat tends to hire in the early summer.

Martin is not done. The earliest Pryor has hired is this year, and it was in the winter of 2L year.


Maybe Judge Pryor is hiring later nowadays, but, in the past, he has made hires before the winter of 2L year.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For the poster who was asking about early judges, I will post11th Circuit judges because that's what I know:

Anderson: on plan
Barkett: on plan
Black: on plan, alumni early
Carnes: april
Cox: may
Dubina: not hiring
Edmondson: not hiring
Fay: ?
Hill: ?
Hull: on plan or later
Jordan: early summer?
Kravitch: on plan
Marcus: on plan
Martin: on plan, alumni early
Pryor: january
Tjoflat: ?
Wilson: ?


Judge Martin is probably done... I heard rumors that she was interviewing for her last slot in late June/early July.

Judge Pryor has, recently, hired people at the end of their 1L summer.

Judge Tjoflat tends to hire in the early summer.


If Judge Jordan continues his practices when he was on the district court, he'll hire between winter and spring. I don't think he considers 2Ls though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:27 am

My writing sample is a note but it is 5 instead of 10 pages. It is basically my introduction of a Note. Should I include more in it?

madame defarge
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby madame defarge » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:My writing sample is a note but it is 5 instead of 10 pages. It is basically my introduction of a Note. Should I include more in it?


You need to have some actual legal analysis in your writing sample, so an introduction to your note is insufficient. Definitely include more from the parts of your note that aren't purely descriptive.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Thanks guys. That is what I expected, but wanted a sanity check to make sure that I wasn't screwing it up.
For what it's worth, several schools recommend their students send their entire note and simply reference a section or set of pages that are particularly representative. In my opinion this is the safer course. No judge is going to be upset that you've sent too much information as long as you point them to a smaller, readable chunk of information. I could see a judge being upset that you haven't sent enough.


I have to disagree here. In my experience, no one wants to read a long writing sample. Plus, long writing samples greatly increase your risk for silly/stupid typos. Typically if they're reading your writing sample, you're pretty far along in the process. And, in my experience, if a chambers wants a longer, or an additional, writing sample, they will call or email you to ask for one.


Agreed, shorter is better. Judges want to know that that you can produce accurate concise work. Given the limited time they have to review many many applications, they are much more likely to get a good impression from a flawless five to ten page memo than from a long note or comment, even if you direct them to a specific portion.

Personally, I edited an 8 page bench memo that I wrote during an externship with a district ct. judge on a narrow but very interesting and unsettled issue down to 5 pages. It has been very well received. I thought I was a marginal (at best) candidate for a COA clerkship, but I got the first one I interviewed for. I think my writing sample helped, though I'm sure good recommendations from people who the judge knew didn't hurt.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: The earliest Pryor has hired is this year, and it was in the winter of 2L year.


False.

User avatar
patrickd139
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:36 pm

Anyone know anything about U.S. tax court clerkships?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:37 pm

patrickd139 wrote:Anyone know anything about U.S. tax court clerkships?


They suck

User avatar
reformed calvinist
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby reformed calvinist » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:Anyone know anything about U.S. tax court clerkships?


They suck


why?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:31 am

Can we revive this thread? Any thoughts as we get closer to September 4th?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:09 am

OSCAR wants you to fill in undergrad transcripts... Mine undergraduate grades are shockingly bad (well below 3.0), but I should otherwise be competitive for a federal clerkship. Should I:
1) not fill in the undergraduate part; or
2) fill it in and hope judges don't notice or care?

ak362
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:24 pm

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby ak362 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:14 am

Whether you need to submit an undergraduate transcript/grade sheet is judge-specific, so if there are certain judges you plan on applying to that require the UG transcript, you'll need to load it onto OSCAR. The rule of thumb is to always follow what the judge asks for to the T. If the judge uses OSCAR, their requirements will usually be posted -- if not, then I suppose you could omit your undergraduate grades and just submit a paper app with CL, resume, LS transcript, writing sample, and recs. Even if your grades aren't great, submit them if the judge asks you to -- not submitting and hoping that the judge won't notice is probably not a good idea.

Tyrion Lannister
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Tyrion Lannister » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:OSCAR wants you to fill in undergrad transcripts... Mine undergraduate grades are shockingly bad (well below 3.0), but I should otherwise be competitive for a federal clerkship. Should I:
1) not fill in the undergraduate part; or
2) fill it in and hope judges don't notice or care?


Option #2. Just double check whether each judge you apply to actually asks for an undergrad transcript.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:05 am

How strict are Judges' "Preferred Grade Range" on Oscar? One screen lists them as judge requirements but the word preference suggests that they are more like OCI employer grade ranges which are generally random or inflated. Also, how are we to interpret when a judge lists "No Preference" for grades as I doubt that's true for a lot of CoA judges who list it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:18 am

Tyrion Lannister wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OSCAR wants you to fill in undergrad transcripts... Mine undergraduate grades are shockingly bad (well below 3.0), but I should otherwise be competitive for a federal clerkship. Should I:
1) not fill in the undergraduate part; or
2) fill it in and hope judges don't notice or care?


Option #2. Just double check whether each judge you apply to actually asks for an undergrad transcript.


This... I also have an abysmal undergrad GPA (not a K-JD, I had more than 5+ years of interesting work experience) and I provided my undergrad grades whenever judges asked for it. Judges who ask for the grades will react in one of four ways: (a) they won't interview you, (b) they'll interview you skeptically, (c) they'll ask about it in the interview just to make sure there isn't some major underlying problem, or (d) they'll just laugh about it, talk about learning from your mistakes, and move on.

Point being, if you have great law school grades then, for most judges, your undergrad grades will have little impact (and, I have two A3 clerkships).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:How strict are Judges' "Preferred Grade Range" on Oscar? One screen lists them as judge requirements but the word preference suggests that they are more like OCI employer grade ranges which are generally random or inflated. Also, how are we to interpret when a judge lists "No Preference" for grades as I doubt that's true for a lot of CoA judges who list it.


I'm not sure this really matters... It costs absolutely nothing to submit an OSCAR app, so just submit it. That said, it can be hard to predict. Some district court judges require top 5% from a top 10 school, while some COA judges will dip into the top 25%.

Tyrion Lannister
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Tyrion Lannister » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How strict are Judges' "Preferred Grade Range" on Oscar? One screen lists them as judge requirements but the word preference suggests that they are more like OCI employer grade ranges which are generally random or inflated. Also, how are we to interpret when a judge lists "No Preference" for grades as I doubt that's true for a lot of CoA judges who list it.


I'm not sure this really matters... It costs absolutely nothing to submit an OSCAR app, so just submit it. That said, it can be hard to predict. Some district court judges require top 5% from a top 10 school, while some COA judges will dip into the top 25%.


I agree with this approach. I know that my A3 judge has hired some people outside their stated OSCAR GPA preference.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How strict are Judges' "Preferred Grade Range" on Oscar? One screen lists them as judge requirements but the word preference suggests that they are more like OCI employer grade ranges which are generally random or inflated. Also, how are we to interpret when a judge lists "No Preference" for grades as I doubt that's true for a lot of CoA judges who list it.


I'm not sure this really matters... It costs absolutely nothing to submit an OSCAR app, so just submit it. That said, it can be hard to predict. Some district court judges require top 5% from a top 10 school, while some COA judges will dip into the top 25%.


Thanks, I'm obviously applying but I was hoping to get a sense of whether you could get a rough sense of your chances based on those numbers or whether they're relatively meaningless. I guess it just depends too much on the judge.




Return to “Judicial Clerkships”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.