Clerks Taking Questions

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nevdash
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby nevdash » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:28 pm

I've seen so many posts asking whether it's too late to apply for D.Ct. clerkships already. Unfortunately, I have to stick to applying according to the plan timeline. If judges still have open OSCAR slots, is it safe to say that they're on-plan (even if it says accepting apps from 07/15-11/01 or whatever)? Or are many judges just lazy when it comes to taking down posts after they've hired?

Tyrion Lannister
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Tyrion Lannister » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:03 pm

apparentlynew wrote:Tyrion, this summer I'm working with a rising 3L from Y who said that their experience was that 2Ls started actually landing clerkships winter / spring break of 2L (at the earliest, i.e. off-plan).

Are you talking about on- or off-plan judges?


Those 2Ls were probably especially well connected with profs. I applied to both district and COA judges and only remember hearing of maybe one or two situations like that.

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:25 pm

Tyrion Lannister wrote:
apparentlynew wrote:Tyrion, this summer I'm working with a rising 3L from Y who said that their experience was that 2Ls started actually landing clerkships winter / spring break of 2L (at the earliest, i.e. off-plan).

Are you talking about on- or off-plan judges?


Those 2Ls were probably especially well connected with profs. I applied to both district and COA judges and only remember hearing of maybe one or two situations like that.


Finishing the clerkship search before 2L spring exams start is not uncommon at YLS -- it doesn't require especially good professor connections. When people at YLS apply to clerkships tends to depend on their geographic interests more than anything.

ETA: Of course, having professors go to bat for you is important. Didn't mean to imply that YLS students were somehow exempt from this aspect of the clerkship process. Just commenting on the fact that a lot of judges hired earlier this year than in years past.

Tyrion Lannister
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Tyrion Lannister » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tyrion Lannister wrote:
apparentlynew wrote:Tyrion, this summer I'm working with a rising 3L from Y who said that their experience was that 2Ls started actually landing clerkships winter / spring break of 2L (at the earliest, i.e. off-plan).

Are you talking about on- or off-plan judges?


Those 2Ls were probably especially well connected with profs. I applied to both district and COA judges and only remember hearing of maybe one or two situations like that.


Finishing the clerkship search before 2L spring exams start is not uncommon at YLS -- it doesn't require especially good professor connections. When people at YLS apply to clerkships tends to depend on their geographic interests more than anything.

ETA: Of course, having professors go to bat for you is important. Didn't mean to imply that YLS students were somehow exempt from this aspect of the clerkship process. Just commenting on the fact that a lot of judges hired earlier this year than in years past.


Interesting. I applied over a year ago and didn't go to YLS, which might account for the difference.

enzo66
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby enzo66 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:39 pm

I received an email from a district court judge's judicial assistant about a week and a half ago about scheduling an interview with the judge. I replied, indicating my availability (pretty much whenever the judge would see me). Assistant replies a few days later that they haven't forgotten me, but are trying to find a time to interview me that works for the judge. Today the assistant emails, saying that the judge asked her to hold off scheduling any interviews and that if something changed she would let me know. Assistant apologized.

I'm a marginal candidate at best. Does this mean the judge is genuinely busy or at judicial conference and really can't interview me for a bit? Or, does it mean the judge took a better look at my transcript and decided he/she wasn't interested? Other interpretations?

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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:03 pm

Tyrion Lannister wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tyrion Lannister wrote:
apparentlynew wrote:Tyrion, this summer I'm working with a rising 3L from Y who said that their experience was that 2Ls started actually landing clerkships winter / spring break of 2L (at the earliest, i.e. off-plan).

Are you talking about on- or off-plan judges?


Those 2Ls were probably especially well connected with profs. I applied to both district and COA judges and only remember hearing of maybe one or two situations like that.


Finishing the clerkship search before 2L spring exams start is not uncommon at YLS -- it doesn't require especially good professor connections. When people at YLS apply to clerkships tends to depend on their geographic interests more than anything.

ETA: Of course, having professors go to bat for you is important. Didn't mean to imply that YLS students were somehow exempt from this aspect of the clerkship process. Just commenting on the fact that a lot of judges hired earlier this year than in years past.


Interesting. I applied over a year ago and didn't go to YLS, which might account for the difference.


'Recent grad here... My current judge this year and last year finished hiring by early May; and, my judge for next year started hiring late May and finished hiring by the beginning on July.

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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:06 pm

nevdash wrote:I've seen so many posts asking whether it's too late to apply for D.Ct. clerkships already. Unfortunately, I have to stick to applying according to the plan timeline. If judges still have open OSCAR slots, is it safe to say that they're on-plan (even if it says accepting apps from 07/15-11/01 or whatever)? Or are many judges just lazy when it comes to taking down posts after they've hired?


A mix of both. Plus, even if a judge abides by the plan they can still interview and hire alumni long before the plan begins for 3Ls.

But, there's certainly no reason that you can't start applying now -- there's no reason you have to stick by the plan timeline.

somethingdemure
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby somethingdemure » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:11 am

Tyrion Lannister wrote:
apparentlynew wrote:Tyrion, this summer I'm working with a rising 3L from Y who said that their experience was that 2Ls started actually landing clerkships winter / spring break of 2L (at the earliest, i.e. off-plan).

Are you talking about on- or off-plan judges?


Those 2Ls were probably especially well connected with profs. I applied to both district and COA judges and only remember hearing of maybe one or two situations like that.


My experience has been that one of the toughest things about clerkship hiring is the wealth of misinformation out there. Quite a few Art. III judges - half or more nationally - are off plan, and this year, quite a few either moved off plan or moved way earlier than they had before. I like many other students feel very burned by the two biggest pieces of misinformation I heard this last year - 1) that most judges, and almost all that were not on the 9th circuit, follow the plan, and 2) that you should make absolutely sure that a judge is off plan before you dare to send an early app, because you risk angering them. The former is just flat wrong, and the second is dangerously bad advice in the present climate in which the judges are under a huge out of pressure to ditch the plan. As a small anecdote, I have very good information that two judges I called and asked about timing, whose chambers told me that under no circumstances should 2Ls send applications before September, hired 2Ls before September. I imagine few are petty enough to refuse to hire someone solely because of the early application.
Last edited by somethingdemure on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

apparentlynew
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby apparentlynew » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:16 am

Somethingdemure: Can you name the judges that you know or have been told started hiring even earlier this year? How early are they hiring?

apparentlynew
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby apparentlynew » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:17 am

Also, in case I wasn't explicit - what judges do you know of who moved off-plan?

lolwat
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:44 am

I've seen so many posts asking whether it's too late to apply for D.Ct. clerkships already. Unfortunately, I have to stick to applying according to the plan timeline. If judges still have open OSCAR slots, is it safe to say that they're on-plan (even if it says accepting apps from 07/15-11/01 or whatever)? Or are many judges just lazy when it comes to taking down posts after they've hired?


More often than not if a judge still has openings on OSCAR, they're still accepting applications.

I received an email from a district court judge's judicial assistant about a week and a half ago about scheduling an interview with the judge. I replied, indicating my availability (pretty much whenever the judge would see me). Assistant replies a few days later that they haven't forgotten me, but are trying to find a time to interview me that works for the judge. Today the assistant emails, saying that the judge asked her to hold off scheduling any interviews and that if something changed she would let me know. Assistant apologized.

I'm a marginal candidate at best. Does this mean the judge is genuinely busy or at judicial conference and really can't interview me for a bit? Or, does it mean the judge took a better look at my transcript and decided he/she wasn't interested? Other interpretations?


Doubtful. It just means something unexpected came up.

lolwat
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:48 am

Also, without a consolidated resource, it's very difficult to be able to list every judge that hires off-plan. I probably wouldn't be too far off if I said that "most" circuit judges (again, with exception of DC Cir.) are now off plan to varying extents, whether they start viewing applications in the Spring or late Summer.

Unfortunately, I don't remember when students start getting access to OSCAR, but it has almost become a safer bet to just assume that judges are off-plan UNLESS their OSCAR opening specifically says they adhere to the hiring plan.

Tyrion Lannister
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Tyrion Lannister » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:24 pm

lolwat wrote:
I've seen so many posts asking whether it's too late to apply for D.Ct. clerkships already. Unfortunately, I have to stick to applying according to the plan timeline. If judges still have open OSCAR slots, is it safe to say that they're on-plan (even if it says accepting apps from 07/15-11/01 or whatever)? Or are many judges just lazy when it comes to taking down posts after they've hired?


More often than not if a judge still has openings on OSCAR, they're still accepting applications.

I received an email from a district court judge's judicial assistant about a week and a half ago about scheduling an interview with the judge. I replied, indicating my availability (pretty much whenever the judge would see me). Assistant replies a few days later that they haven't forgotten me, but are trying to find a time to interview me that works for the judge. Today the assistant emails, saying that the judge asked her to hold off scheduling any interviews and that if something changed she would let me know. Assistant apologized.

I'm a marginal candidate at best. Does this mean the judge is genuinely busy or at judicial conference and really can't interview me for a bit? Or, does it mean the judge took a better look at my transcript and decided he/she wasn't interested? Other interpretations?


Doubtful. It just means something unexpected came up.


I wouldn't be surprised if one of the current clerks decided to stay on longer than expected at the last minute.

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:47 am

Should I bring a portfolio folder with all my application materials in it to a clerkship interview like at OCI?

lolwat
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby lolwat » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 am

Yes.

Chances are you won't need it but you might.

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GeePee
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby GeePee » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:20 am

Sorry, perused the thread a while and couldn't find an answer to this question.

My writing sample (a note) is 27 pages, double spaced. Should I excerpt, single space it, or just leave it? I'd rather not print 1500 pages for 60 writing samples on my paper judges...

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kalvano
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby kalvano » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:06 pm

That's probably too long. Cut it down to a 10-page excerpt. I've only seen one judge that was cool with a 30-page sample.

madame defarge
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby madame defarge » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:13 pm

GeePee wrote:Sorry, perused the thread a while and couldn't find an answer to this question.

My writing sample (a note) is 27 pages, double spaced. Should I excerpt, single space it, or just leave it? I'd rather not print 1500 pages for 60 writing samples on my paper judges...


Definitely excerpt so that the sample is no more than 10-15 pages (double-spaced). No one wants to read through a long writing sample, especially when there are hundreds of applications to go through.

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GeePee
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby GeePee » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:16 pm

kalvano wrote:That's probably too long. Cut it down to a 10-page excerpt. I've only seen one judge that was cool with a 30-page sample.


madame defarge wrote:
GeePee wrote:Sorry, perused the thread a while and couldn't find an answer to this question.

My writing sample (a note) is 27 pages, double spaced. Should I excerpt, single space it, or just leave it? I'd rather not print 1500 pages for 60 writing samples on my paper judges...


Definitely excerpt so that the sample is no more than 10-15 pages (double-spaced). No one wants to read through a long writing sample, especially when there are hundreds of applications to go through.


Thanks guys. That is what I expected, but wanted a sanity check to make sure that I wasn't screwing it up.

SMU2013
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby SMU2013 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:20 pm

This question may have already been asked and answered, and if so, I apologize. Is it better to submit an academic writing sample-i.e., law review comment or note-or is it better to submit a memo or brief? Looking forward to any feedback. Thanks.

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kalvano
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby kalvano » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:48 pm

SMU2013 wrote:This question may have already been asked and answered, and if so, I apologize. Is it better to submit an academic writing sample-i.e., law review comment or note-or is it better to submit a memo or brief? Looking forward to any feedback. Thanks.


I would just submit whatever you feel is your best work. I'm using a 6-page memo I wrote during an internship that I like a lot.

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:32 pm

So I've procrastinated till the last minute on applying to district court clerkships. There's a district where I've heard that the judges hire early (and are interviewing now) and I'd like to apply. However, some of the judges require undergraduate transcripts and it might take me a week to get them in the mail.

Since interviews are going on now and the judges could hire very soon, should I send in the rest of my application materials before I get the transcripts? Is this kind of thing frowned on? I have competitive stats for these positions if it makes any difference.

Tyrion Lannister
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Tyrion Lannister » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I've procrastinated till the last minute on applying to district court clerkships. There's a district where I've heard that the judges hire early (and are interviewing now) and I'd like to apply. However, some of the judges require undergraduate transcripts and it might take me a week to get them in the mail.

Since interviews are going on now and the judges could hire very soon, should I send in the rest of my application materials before I get the transcripts? Is this kind of thing frowned on? I have competitive stats for these positions if it makes any difference.


Most colleges give alums access to unofficial transcripts on the Web. If yours does, use that instead of an official one. If the judge needs something official, you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby reformed calvinist » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:26 pm

Tyrion Lannister wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So I've procrastinated till the last minute on applying to district court clerkships. There's a district where I've heard that the judges hire early (and are interviewing now) and I'd like to apply. However, some of the judges require undergraduate transcripts and it might take me a week to get them in the mail.

Since interviews are going on now and the judges could hire very soon, should I send in the rest of my application materials before I get the transcripts? Is this kind of thing frowned on? I have competitive stats for these positions if it makes any difference.


Most colleges give alums access to unofficial transcripts on the Web. If yours does, use that instead of an official one. If the judge needs something official, you can cross that bridge when you come to it.


Completely unrelated: If you're going to take an awesome username, at least use an awesome avatar!

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks, taking questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:32 pm

For the poster who was asking about early judges, I will post11th Circuit judges because that's what I know:

Anderson: on plan
Barkett: on plan
Black: on plan, alumni early
Carnes: april
Cox: may
Dubina: not hiring
Edmondson: not hiring
Fay: ?
Hill: ?
Hull: on plan or later
Jordan: early summer?
Kravitch: on plan
Marcus: on plan
Martin: on plan, alumni early
Pryor: january
Tjoflat: ?
Wilson: ?




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