Clerks Taking Questions

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:10 am

Moonraker wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:Does anyone know when we can start expecting solicitation letters/invites to clerk receptions and such? Not looking for a job, but would enjoy nabbing some free food and drink on someone else's dime.


Hi, these are definitely helpful, but not the only way to seek employment. I began mailing my materials in November and ultimately selected to begin work at a firm that did not mail anything to our chambers. If there is a firm you're particularly interested in, you should start sooner rather than later.


How soon?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:04 pm

How do you ask a professor to call a judge on your behalf? Is there sample language floating around on TLS? I looked, but was unable to find anything. This is a very specific judge I am interested in, and the professor knows him/her personally.

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ggocat
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby ggocat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How do you ask a professor to call a judge on your behalf? Is there sample language floating around on TLS? I looked, but was unable to find anything. This is a very specific judge I am interested in, and the professor knows him/her personally.

Just ask. If you don't know the professor already, stop by their office and introduce yourself first. Just be normal.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby wwwcol » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:26 pm

ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you ask a professor to call a judge on your behalf? Is there sample language floating around on TLS? I looked, but was unable to find anything. This is a very specific judge I am interested in, and the professor knows him/her personally.

Just ask. If you don't know the professor already, stop by their office and introduce yourself first. Just be normal.


A phone call is an opportunity for a professor to recommend you and answer questions about your personality/intellect. If you don't know the professor even superficially, what is he supposed to say in the phone call?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:38 pm

wwwcol wrote:
ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you ask a professor to call a judge on your behalf? Is there sample language floating around on TLS? I looked, but was unable to find anything. This is a very specific judge I am interested in, and the professor knows him/her personally.

Just ask. If you don't know the professor already, stop by their office and introduce yourself first. Just be normal.


A phone call is an opportunity for a professor to recommend you and answer questions about your personality/intellect. If you don't know the professor even superficially, what is he supposed to say in the phone call?

Agree with this. If a professor has a relationship with a judge, the prof probably isn't going to want to burn his recommendation-capital on a student he doesn't know.

OP: If the prof has already agreed to write you a letter of recommendation, then go visit the prof in his office, explaining your interest in clerking for the specific judge. If you're lucky, the prof might offer to make a call for you.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:48 am

rpupkin wrote:
wwwcol wrote:
ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you ask a professor to call a judge on your behalf? Is there sample language floating around on TLS? I looked, but was unable to find anything. This is a very specific judge I am interested in, and the professor knows him/her personally.

Just ask. If you don't know the professor already, stop by their office and introduce yourself first. Just be normal.


A phone call is an opportunity for a professor to recommend you and answer questions about your personality/intellect. If you don't know the professor even superficially, what is he supposed to say in the phone call?

Agree with this. If a professor has a relationship with a judge, the prof probably isn't going to want to burn his recommendation-capital on a student he doesn't know.

OP: If the prof has already agreed to write you a letter of recommendation, then go visit the prof in his office, explaining your interest in clerking for the specific judge. If you're lucky, the prof might offer to make a call for you.


Sorry, should have clarified - the professor wrote me a letter, but I graduated last year. I have a good relationship with the professor, but I wasn't sure if it's inappropriate to ask her or put her on the spot. I am new to the clerkship process and don't really know how the whole professor calling judges thing works. But makes sense, I will just email or call her.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby ggocat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry, should have clarified - the professor wrote me a letter, but I graduated last year. I have a good relationship with the professor, but I wasn't sure if it's inappropriate to ask her or put her on the spot. I am new to the clerkship process and don't really know how the whole professor calling judges thing works. But makes sense, I will just email or call her.

So, does the prof know that she already wrote you a letter for this particular judge? Or is this the type of situation where your prof wrote a form letter and it was uploaded to OSCAR? If the latter situation, definitely mention to the prof that you applied to a judge who the prof knows personally. In fact, the prof may insist on making the phone call because the tone of the letter might have been different if the prof knew who she was writing to.

If the prof knew that her letter was going to that particular judge already, I think it's a little bit more of a delicate conversation. Sure, still ask the prof if she's comfortable making a phone call on your behalf. But keep in mind that if she wanted to, she would have done it already.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:09 pm

ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sorry, should have clarified - the professor wrote me a letter, but I graduated last year. I have a good relationship with the professor, but I wasn't sure if it's inappropriate to ask her or put her on the spot. I am new to the clerkship process and don't really know how the whole professor calling judges thing works. But makes sense, I will just email or call her.

So, does the prof know that she already wrote you a letter for this particular judge? Or is this the type of situation where your prof wrote a form letter and it was uploaded to OSCAR? If the latter situation, definitely mention to the prof that you applied to a judge who the prof knows personally. In fact, the prof may insist on making the phone call because the tone of the letter might have been different if the prof knew who she was writing to.

If the prof knew that her letter was going to that particular judge already, I think it's a little bit more of a delicate conversation. Sure, still ask the prof if she's comfortable making a phone call on your behalf. But keep in mind that if she wanted to, she would have done it already.


Ah, I see. It's the latter. The professor wrote the letter about a year and a half ago during my last semester of school, but I just sent out my app about a month ago. And then a few days ago when I was going through my apps and doing more research, I discovered that this professor and judge know each other pretty well. :shock:

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby ggocat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ah, I see. It's the latter. The professor wrote the letter about a year and a half ago during my last semester of school, but I just sent out my app about a month ago. And then a few days ago when I was going through my apps and doing more research, I discovered that this professor and judge know each other pretty well. :shock:

Yeah, I would just explain the line of events to your prof. Your prof will likely jump at the chance to recommend you over the phone/email, just to give the judge a head's up that she has recommended you for the job. If she doesn't offer, no harm in straight up asking her to phone/email the judge about your app.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:47 pm

ggocat wrote:Yeah, I would just explain the line of events to your prof. Your prof will likely jump at the chance to recommend you over the phone/email, just to give the judge a head's up that she has recommended you for the job. If she doesn't offer, no harm in straight up asking her to phone/email the judge about your app.


Sounds good. Thank you all for the help.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:37 pm

I am applying to clerk.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am applying to clerk for ideally the 2019 cycle but will be open to 2018 if I get an offer.

I graduated from a T14 with a 3.5 and went to law school at night while I worked at the White House.

I applied to all SDNY, EDNY and NJ (Newark only), as well as Chicago, one San Fran district court judges.

I wanted to know if anyone has any suggestions on other cities/judges I should apply to that I might be competitive for.

I am currently at a top 25 firm.

SDNY, EDNY, NDIL, and NDCA are among the six or seven most competitive districts in the country. Given that your paper credentials aren't particularly strong, you're going to have a tough time if you limit your search to judges in those districts.

I suggest applying broadly--apply to judge throughout the country.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am applying to clerk for ideally the 2019 cycle but will be open to 2018 if I get an offer.

I graduated from a T14 with a 3.5 and went to law school at night while I worked in government.

I applied to all SDNY, EDNY and NJ (Newark only), as well as Chicago, one San Fran district court judges.

I wanted to know if anyone has any suggestions on other cities/judges I should apply to that I might be competitive for.

I am currently at a top 25 firm.

SDNY, EDNY, NDIL, and NDCA are among the six or seven most competitive districts in the country. Given that your paper credentials aren't particularly strong, you're going to have a tough time if you limit your search to judges in those districts.

I suggest applying broadly--apply to judge throughout the country.


What would you say are the other most competitive districts?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
What would you say are the other most competitive districts?

In addition to the districts you're applying to, DDC and CD Cal are known for being competitive.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby lolwat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What would you say are the other most competitive districts?


Basically, every district in a primary legal market.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am applying to clerk for ideally the 2019 cycle but will be open to 2018 if I get an offer.

I graduated from a T14 with a 3.5 and went to law school at night while I worked in government.

I applied to all SDNY, EDNY and NJ (Newark only), as well as Chicago, one San Fran district court judges.

I wanted to know if anyone has any suggestions on other cities/judges I should apply to that I might be competitive for.

I am currently at a top 25 firm.

Yeah, most of the districts you're applying to are the ones that get eliminated first when people start discussing where they "might be competitive"; you should apply anywhere you'd consider living for a year if you just want to clerk, especially with a 3.5 from Georgetown (I assume).

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby jrf12886 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am applying to clerk for ideally the 2019 cycle but will be open to 2018 if I get an offer.

I graduated from a T14 with a 3.5 and went to law school at night while I worked in government.

I applied to all SDNY, EDNY and NJ (Newark only), as well as Chicago, one San Fran district court judges.

I wanted to know if anyone has any suggestions on other cities/judges I should apply to that I might be competitive for.

I am currently at a top 25 firm.


With your grades, you need to apply broadly. I'd suggest applying to any District you would be willing to live in for a year.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:25 pm

Is anyone else borderline in the red? The clerkship paychecks are tiny and I'm in a very high cost of living area. I have maybe $100-200/month left over after paying rent and expenses.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is anyone else borderline in the red? The clerkship paychecks are tiny and I'm in a very high cost of living area. I have maybe $100-200/month left over after paying rent and expenses.

I'm not, but I'm not surprised that it happens (particularly with people who are used to a biglaw paycheck).

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:37 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is anyone else borderline in the red? The clerkship paychecks are tiny and I'm in a very high cost of living area. I have maybe $100-200/month left over after paying rent and expenses.

I'm not, but I'm not surprised that it happens (particularly with people who are used to a biglaw paycheck).


Not OP, but clerking 18-19 after two years of big law. What can I do now and over this next year to prepare financially? I am saving money and working on budget/spending habits, but that's about it. I am clerking in a flyover so the COL is pretty cheap and am supporting only myself. .

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:51 pm

OP here. I think you'll be fine. I'm right out of law school so the paycheck is much smaller than yours will be after 2 years of experience. On that salary I'd have no trouble whatsoever.

I'm just spending a ton on rent because I didn't know anyone in my area so I'm living alone and placed a high priority on living very close to work, and thus in an expensive area.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby lolwat » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is anyone else borderline in the red? The clerkship paychecks are tiny and I'm in a very high cost of living area. I have maybe $100-200/month left over after paying rent and expenses.

I'm not, but I'm not surprised that it happens (particularly with people who are used to a biglaw paycheck).


Not OP, but clerking 18-19 after two years of big law. What can I do now and over this next year to prepare financially? I am saving money and working on budget/spending habits, but that's about it. I am clerking in a flyover so the COL is pretty cheap and am supporting only myself. .


I think the biggest thing is to plan ahead and to budget your spending, especially on rent, food, and entertainment as those things you have the most control over. If you want X you get less of Y. You probably won't be saving tons but as long as you can live for the year without being in the red you're fine.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is anyone else borderline in the red? The clerkship paychecks are tiny and I'm in a very high cost of living area. I have maybe $100-200/month left over after paying rent and expenses.

I'm not, but I'm not surprised that it happens (particularly with people who are used to a biglaw paycheck).


Not OP, but clerking 18-19 after two years of big law. What can I do now and over this next year to prepare financially? I am saving money and working on budget/spending habits, but that's about it. I am clerking in a flyover so the COL is pretty cheap and am supporting only myself. .

Yeah, you'll probably be fine - I think the pay tables are more generous overall to people in flyover country, and you'll have money saved up. It sounds like you might be moving as well, which will probably be a financial hit but you'll have freedom to find cheap housing.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby anon sequitur » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:05 pm

With two years of experience you should come in at gs13, around $85k in flyover country. You should be fine if you’re single.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby jrf12886 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is anyone else borderline in the red? The clerkship paychecks are tiny and I'm in a very high cost of living area. I have maybe $100-200/month left over after paying rent and expenses.


If you're in NYC and single, you basically have to either have a roommate or live in (what I consider) a crappy place (either far away from the courts or really small and run-down). It get's easier when you get to JSP-12 and 13. If you have a second income, it should be fine.




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