Clerks Taking Questions

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mjb447
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:44 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:It's not that confusing. Outgoing calls from a courhouse are often routed through a different number. I've had several calls for interviews where the call back number left in the voicemail was a different number than what showed up in caller ID.


Anon from above.

Thanks, but that doesn't resolve my confusion. I have also received calls from chambers routed through different numbers, but I have never received a call from chambers in which they didn't leave a voicemail or follow up with an email.

Sometimes people call and then don't leave a voicemail for one reason or another. It's not strange and it's not confusing.


I think it's pretty strange if they want to get into contact with said person. If you call me and don't leave me a voicemail, I'm not calling you back unless I recognize the number.

Yeah, I agree with pupkin - in this situation they don't expect a call back. Interviews are much easier to schedule talking live, particularly if chambers is kind enough to want to take your schedule into account. If I'm at trial or something, I might not be at my desk very often during the day, and I don't particularly care whether we get in touch Tuesday morning rather than Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday or Thursday, so I may only leave a VM after I've tried you a few times.

FascinatedWanderer
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:42 pm

Does anyone know when we can start expecting solicitation letters/invites to clerk receptions and such? Not looking for a job, but would enjoy nabbing some free food and drink on someone else's dime.

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rpupkin
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:07 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:Does anyone know when we can start expecting solicitation letters/invites to clerk receptions and such? Not looking for a job, but would enjoy nabbing some free food and drink on someone else's dime.

You'll have to wait awhile. Those receptions generally occur between late January and March.

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mjb447
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:29 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:Does anyone know when we can start expecting solicitation letters/invites to clerk receptions and such? Not looking for a job, but would enjoy nabbing some free food and drink on someone else's dime.

I think we've got some booze in chambers - swing by if you're thirsty.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:27 pm

ExBiglawAssociate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm in my second year of big law, clerking for a district court judge next year (18-19), and hoping to clerk for a circuit court judge the following year (19-20). I've been applying to circuit clerkships for about 3 months now, but I haven't heard a thing. I'm pretty geographically flexible and I have the district clerkship lined up, so I thought I would at least get some interviews.

1. Is there anything else I can do at this point? Or just keep on applying? I realize it's two years away but from what I gather it seems like most spots are already filled. I've been following OSCAR, TLS, and even checking with some chambers about openings, but I'm not really sure what to do other than wait. FWIW, the clerkship office at my school is useless.

2. I'm open to clerking in 20-21 (so after my district clerkship I would work for a year) if I cant secure a 19-20 circuit clerkship, but I am not sure what to put on my cover letter. Something along the lines of "I intend to return to biglaw for a year after my district clerkship and before this one?" Also, is there there any downside to this path (2 years big law, district clerkship, 1 year big law, circuit clerkship)? I would much rather do the clerkships consecutively, but I will still pursue a 20-21 clerkship if I struck out for 19-20.


Mail in paper applications for judges not on OSCAR (or even judges who are on OSCAR but are not clear about having filled their positions and haven't made clear that they don't want paper apps).


Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on the second question? Not sure how to address the gap in my cover letter.

Laser Lady
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Laser Lady » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on the second question? Not sure how to address the gap in my cover letter.


Why not just say, "I'm interested in clerking for you for either the 2019/20 or 2020/21 term"? Since you'd be willing to clerk either year, it makes sense to say so in your cover letter. And there's really no need to include your contingency plan in your cover letter. Even if the judge's OSCAR profile makes it clear that he/she is already full for the 2019/20 term and is only accepting applications for 2020/21, you can simply say that you're interested in clerking for the 2020/21 term. It seems to me that a reasonable judge will make the reasonable assumption that you'll find other legal work to do in the meantime.

I'm generally of the opinion that less is more when it comes to clerkship cover letters, and this is no exception.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby lolwat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:01 pm

Laser Lady wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on the second question? Not sure how to address the gap in my cover letter.


Why not just say, "I'm interested in clerking for you for either the 2019/20 or 2020/21 term"? Since you'd be willing to clerk either year, it makes sense to say so in your cover letter. And there's really no need to include your contingency plan in your cover letter. Even if the judge's OSCAR profile makes it clear that he/she is already full for the 2019/20 term and is only accepting applications for 2020/21, you can simply say that you're interested in clerking for the 2020/21 term. It seems to me that a reasonable judge will make the reasonable assumption that you'll find other legal work to do in the meantime.

I'm generally of the opinion that less is more when it comes to clerkship cover letters, and this is no exception.


yes, all of this.

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mjb447
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:22 am

Yeah, agreed - don't address the gap in your cover letter.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:42 am

lolwat wrote:
Laser Lady wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on the second question? Not sure how to address the gap in my cover letter.


Why not just say, "I'm interested in clerking for you for either the 2019/20 or 2020/21 term"? Since you'd be willing to clerk either year, it makes sense to say so in your cover letter. And there's really no need to include your contingency plan in your cover letter. Even if the judge's OSCAR profile makes it clear that he/she is already full for the 2019/20 term and is only accepting applications for 2020/21, you can simply say that you're interested in clerking for the 2020/21 term. It seems to me that a reasonable judge will make the reasonable assumption that you'll find other legal work to do in the meantime.

I'm generally of the opinion that less is more when it comes to clerkship cover letters, and this is no exception.


yes, all of this.


mjb447 wrote:Yeah, agreed - don't address the gap in your cover letter.


Thanks!!

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:37 pm

Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

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mjb447
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

I wouldn't worry about it as long as you're consistent, particularly as you'd probably expect a "paper" written during law school to follow journal rules rather than opinion rules.

(Whether a paper from a seminar class generally makes a good writing sample is a different question that I'm leaving as an exercise for the reader.)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:14 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

I wouldn't worry about it as long as you're consistent, particularly as you'd probably expect a "paper" written during law school to follow journal rules rather than opinion rules.

(Whether a paper from a seminar class generally makes a good writing sample is a different question that I'm leaving as an exercise for the reader.)


Thank you. What are some concerns about using a paper from a seminar class? Sorry if this is an obvious question. I'm using this as my second writing sample for the judges that require two. The first one is a brief I wrote in a moot court competition. I thought it might be helpful to provide the judge with two different types of writing.

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mjb447
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby mjb447 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

I wouldn't worry about it as long as you're consistent, particularly as you'd probably expect a "paper" written during law school to follow journal rules rather than opinion rules.

(Whether a paper from a seminar class generally makes a good writing sample is a different question that I'm leaving as an exercise for the reader.)


Thank you. What are some concerns about using a paper from a seminar class? Sorry if this is an obvious question. I'm using this as my second writing sample for the judges that require two. The first one is a brief I wrote in a moot court competition. I thought it might be helpful to provide the judge with two different types of writing.

Just that "papers" and "articles" tend to be further removed from the kind of writing you'll do in chambers than is ideal. Generally better to use something prepared during litigation, something that answers a legal question in a discrete factual context, that kind of thing. Using it as a second writing sample is less problematic, though - I'd probably still use two memos or briefs, but much more a judgment call (and some judges do prefer an academic sample, although I think they're in the minority).

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BulletTooth
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby BulletTooth » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

I wouldn't worry about it as long as you're consistent, particularly as you'd probably expect a "paper" written during law school to follow journal rules rather than opinion rules.

(Whether a paper from a seminar class generally makes a good writing sample is a different question that I'm leaving as an exercise for the reader.)


Thank you. What are some concerns about using a paper from a seminar class? Sorry if this is an obvious question. I'm using this as my second writing sample for the judges that require two. The first one is a brief I wrote in a moot court competition. I thought it might be helpful to provide the judge with two different types of writing.

Just that "papers" and "articles" tend to be further removed from the kind of writing you'll do in chambers than is ideal. Generally better to use something prepared during litigation, something that answers a legal question in a discrete factual context, that kind of thing. Using it as a second writing sample is less problematic, though - I'd probably still use two memos or briefs, but much more a judgment call (and some judges do prefer an academic sample, although I think they're in the minority).


Yeah, if it's a district court, you probably want a brief or a memo. My experience is that CoA judges may be more interested in a law review article or other "academic" writing.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby ggocat » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

Any person looking at your app who actually cares enough about citation form to notice the difference in italics will undoubtedly know Bluebook form well enough to know you've done it correctly.

lolwat
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby lolwat » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:26 pm

I got enough D.Ct. interviews using my LR article as a writing sample that I honestly don't think it matters that much. But, in terms of maximizing your chances, I'd say a memo or brief is overall better.

As far as citation format, I'm sure it's up to whomever is actually reviewing the applications, but if it were me, I'd be MUCH more inclined to ding someone for inconsistencies in citing format than not properly completely adhering to the Bluebook. It's easy enough to teach you that case names need to be italicized or however the judge really likes to cite stuff. It's not quite the same if, in the same article, you've got some case names italicized, some underlined, some regular, and some bolded, and I'm trying to figure out if there's a reason you couldn't just stick to doing it one way throughout.

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rpupkin
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby rpupkin » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:56 pm

ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: Should I italicize case names below the line? I'm using a paper I wrote in a seminar class and it is formatted like a law review article. Journals don't, but I wonder if a judge might expect it and think I made an error.

Any person looking at your app who actually cares enough about citation form to notice the difference in italics will undoubtedly know Bluebook form well enough to know you've done it correctly.

Agreed. By the way, some courts (including the Supreme Court) don't follow the Bluebook. And for those courts that do follow it, compliance with BB rules will often vary depending on how much the drafting clerk knows (or cares about) the rules. The size of the font you use is more likely to be an issue than the format for citations.
Last edited by rpupkin on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jrf12886
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby jrf12886 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:43 pm

My general experience is that after law school, the importance of the Bluebook is greatly diminished. Judges are mostly concerned with being consistent (both within an opinion and with their prior opinions) rather then technical compliance with the more obscure BB rules.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby runinthefront » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:09 am

jrf12886 wrote:My general experience is that after law school, the importance of the Bluebook is greatly diminished. Judges are mostly concerned with being consistent (both within an opinion and with their prior opinions) rather then technical compliance with the more obscure BB rules.

This is true in my CoA chambers. Just get the law right and cite well enough (and be consistent) so others can pull the source with relative ease.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:51 am

Instructions from a judge on OSCAR: Please provide supervisor's name and telephone number for each law firm listed as work experience.

My firm doesn't know that I am applying to clerkships and I don't think they'd be happy if they found out. What is the protocol here? Inform my supervisor so s/he doesn't get a call out of the blue (I know, slim chance the judge is even interested in my app)? Not apply to this judge?

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jrf12886
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby jrf12886 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:Instructions from a judge on OSCAR: Please provide supervisor's name and telephone number for each law firm listed as work experience.

My firm doesn't know that I am applying to clerkships and I don't think they'd be happy if they found out. What is the protocol here? Inform my supervisor so s/he doesn't get a call out of the blue (I know, slim chance the judge is even interested in my app)? Not apply to this judge?


It's a tough spot to be in. Perhaps you could indicate to the judge that your curent firm is not aware that you are seeking a clerkship. That would be a hint that they shouldn't contact that particular reference until they are prepared to extend an offer (rather than at an earlier screening phase of the process). If you're really concerned, I think you should just skip applying to that particular judge, or apply but do not indicate your current supervisor. (you might get auto-dinged, but more likely the judge contacts references only late in the process and could ask for the information later)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Instructions from a judge on OSCAR: Please provide supervisor's name and telephone number for each law firm listed as work experience.

My firm doesn't know that I am applying to clerkships and I don't think they'd be happy if they found out. What is the protocol here? Inform my supervisor so s/he doesn't get a call out of the blue (I know, slim chance the judge is even interested in my app)? Not apply to this judge?

Is this a judge you especially want to clerk for? Or is it only one of many judges to whom you're submitting applications? If it's the latter, I'd probably just not apply to this particular judge.

ETA: Sorry, accidental anon (haven't done that in awhile). This is rpupkin.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:11 pm

What is the etiquette or standard practice on applying to judges who have not yest posted openings for that term? I have a district clerkship lined up for the 18-19 term and am applying to 19-20 circuit clerkships. There are a few judges on OSCAR who are hiring for the 2018 term, but not the 2019 term yet. Can I just apply on OSCAR but indicate in my cover letter that it is for a 19-20 position? Or is that not OK?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby runinthefront » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What is the etiquette or standard practice on applying to judges who have not yest posted openings for that term? I have a district clerkship lined up for the 18-19 term and am applying to 19-20 circuit clerkships. There are a few judges on OSCAR who are hiring for the 2018 term, but not the 2019 term yet. Can I just apply on OSCAR but indicate in my cover letter that it is for a 19-20 position? Or is that not OK?

just apply via paper

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Postby Moonraker » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 am

FascinatedWanderer wrote:Does anyone know when we can start expecting solicitation letters/invites to clerk receptions and such? Not looking for a job, but would enjoy nabbing some free food and drink on someone else's dime.


Hi, these are definitely helpful, but not the only way to seek employment. I began mailing my materials in November and ultimately selected to begin work at a firm that did not mail anything to our chambers. If there is a firm you're particularly interested in, you should start sooner rather than later.




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