C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2015)
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pixleprincess
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C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby pixleprincess » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:26 am

I am so f-ing excited for law school! Seriously. Seriously. And I want to put it up here because-
1- I'm curious if people will shred into us, the professional newbs (gambling away your future blah blah) even in the face of pure exuberance and excitement
2- everyone is so negative here... C'mon, I don't know how people can sit with so much negativity and read all those cases... All that outlining. I gotta believe that Deep down anyone who's willing to do that for three years is either an optomist or a masochist

I've been out of school for a while and already had the unpleasant experience of pursuing what I believed to be a noble and enriching and highly competaive career only to.. Well long story short let's say I washed out, failed, fell on my ass in front of some seriously prestigious people at a program ranked nationally in the top 5. So I'm not exactly naive, but maybe fools never learn.

I'm just curious- what do all those "don't go to law school" tlsers consider a sounder career goal? Honestly? Are we all supposed to be accountants? Real estate agents? My friends in both those fields sit around bemoaning the economy much more than my lawyer friends. Much. Anyone who wants a academic career gambles 5-7 years of their adult lives only to potentially have to move to bumblefuck, North Dakota and teach composition or intro to x-field to make ends meet. Artists and musicians are literally on the streets performing for change, playing free gigs to showcase original work. Teachers (those this varies by state maybe) have the ever-looming axe of no child left behind, budget cuts, parents preventing them from doing their best, no respect, and 6 fig salaries don't even enter the convo.
My close friend who just finished residency at a great hospital hasn't secured her next position, is years away from her own practice, completely in debt, scared shitless by both hmos and healthcare reform. I've read about pilots on food stamps, computer programers fired after 15+ years at firms because of various forms of outsourcing.

Let's all get over ourselves, count our blessings, work hard and take to heart that no profession is "safe" and students loans are as crippling as credit card debt or mortages yet a reality in our country. That in fact - out of everyone - it is likely lawyers who could emost change that reality. Hell, the obamas were paying off student loans til 2004.

So again- I'm excited. Thrilled.

Feel free to yell at me (or more likely this will get like 1 reply) but I hope someone else in my cohort shares my optimism

shoeshine
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby shoeshine » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:27 am

You should revisit this thread in a year and see if you feel the same.

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pixleprincess
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby pixleprincess » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:30 am

shoeshine wrote:You should revisit this thread in a year and see if you feel the same.


I know! I plan to. Another part of why I posted. Let make it 14 months. Ill wildly curious about where I'll be.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:35 am

I glanced through your history. Why were you "shocked" and excited to get into Brooklyn Law with a 3.9/168?

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pixleprincess
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby pixleprincess » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:42 am

Blessedassurance wrote:I glanced through your history. Why were you "shocked" and excited to get into Brooklyn Law with a 3.9/168?


Just shocked at their quick answer. Notified 6 days after submitting/going complete. I thought I'd be on the hook til June

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:53 am

shoeshine wrote:You should revisit this thread in a year and see if you feel the same.

Spoiler alert: you won't. I was an excited optimist in August, too. Now, on the cusp of finishing 1L year, I have become jaded, cynical and intellectually numb. We do the work not because we are optimistic or masochistic, but because it's a means to an end. That's all it is.

When you're home on a Saturday night, outlining con law like me right now, you will understand.

rad lulz
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:59 am

I've been out of school for a while and already had the unpleasant experience of pursuing what I believed to be a noble and enriching and highly competaive career only to..

Do you think going to traffic court cattle call is ennobling? How about doing due diligence or creating a privilege log?

rad lulz
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:03 am

Also, to do well in law school, it means someone has to do worse. If you do kick ass, someone has to do shitty. They might never get a legal job.


Image

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pixleprincess
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby pixleprincess » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:06 am

I would venture that those who see ls as a means to an end are surely optimistic that the future holds something better than the now.

I never said law is noble, just that I've already been up and down the idealist ladder.

It does bother me that someone else does shitty for nearly or more everyone that does well- but I can't control that, I can only try and work hard and not think about my hard work in dreary or crippling terms.

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Samara
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:08 am

You're going to Brooklyn with a 3.9/168? What a waste.

rad lulz
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:10 am

pixleprincess wrote:I would venture that those who see ls as a means to an end are surely optimistic that the future holds something better than the now.

That's actually the reason why it sucks. It's a pseudo-intellectual slog that bears little relevance to the actual practice of law.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:12 am

rad lulz wrote:
pixleprincess wrote:I would venture that those who see ls as a means to an end are surely optimistic that the future holds something better than the now.

That's actually the reason why it sucks. It's a pseudo-intellectual slog that bears little relevance to the actual practice of law.

Stop giving substantive answers. You're scaring me.

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pixleprincess
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby pixleprincess » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:15 am

Samara wrote:You're going to Brooklyn with a 3.9/168? What a waste.


I don't know where I'm going yet.. But seriously, why would this thread be about me? Wouldn't it be more interesting to explore the intensively negative attitude and tone of a bunch of people (ie c/o 2015) *already committed* to a goal? This is a really bizarre phenom to me and one I've never encountered amongst law students IRL..

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Samara
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:23 am

pixleprincess wrote:
Samara wrote:You're going to Brooklyn with a 3.9/168? What a waste.


I don't know where I'm going yet.. But seriously, why would this thread be about me? Wouldn't it be more interesting to explore the intensively negative attitude and tone of a bunch of people (ie c/o 2015) *already committed* to a goal? This is a really bizarre phenom to me and one I've never encountered amongst law students IRL..

Well, please go to a better school, haha. In fact, retake and go to YHS or T6 with a named scholly. As a splitter, it's frustrating when people don't maximize their potential with a simple retake. It sounds like you also applied late.

And why not make it about you? That sounds like a lot more fun. But if you insist...I'm a fellow c/o 2015 and I'm going into law school with your so-called negative attitude. I call it realistic cynicism. The job market is still really bad and I'm going to need to hustle to pay of my loans. I need to be prepared for the worst of law school so that I can maximize my performance. I've read about what happens if you flame out and it's terrifying. Hell, even "winning" law school means a few more years of slogging it through biglaw before I can actually enjoy the degree. Fear, cynicism and skepticism is a pretty good motivator if you ask me.

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NinerFan
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby NinerFan » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:34 am

I was excited about law school for part of 1L year, then the cynicism set in. Good luck to you.

shoeshine
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby shoeshine » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:39 am

pixleprincess wrote:
Samara wrote:You're going to Brooklyn with a 3.9/168? What a waste.


I don't know where I'm going yet.. But seriously, why would this thread be about me? Wouldn't it be more interesting to explore the intensively negative attitude and tone of a bunch of people (ie c/o 2015) *already committed* to a goal? This is a really bizarre phenom to me and one I've never encountered amongst law students IRL..

The reason you think this way is because you have not been to law school yet. Complete a year of law school and there is a 95% chance you will feel differently. That 95% chance will have a strong correlation to your class rank as well.

Good luck to you. You really sound naive in this thread but I am pretty sure law school will break your spirit.

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hyakku
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby hyakku » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:05 am

OP most forums just have people with a cynical attitude. In my 13+ Years of internetting it has never changed. As you said, most people attending LS think it's tough, but not gouge your eyes out, the sky is falling tough the rest of TLS makes it out to be. At the same time it's kind of the nature of a forum; there isn't much discussion to an idea like "Hiring is fine, everyone is getting jobs and things couldn't be better!" compared to, "If you go to any school outside of these 14 you're fucked."

The one thing I'm always curious about though, is why anyone up here cares so much about anyone else? Maybe I'm just an asshole, but I've never cared when someone tells me what there future career plans or school plans are like, and I certainly wouldn't care enough to even start wasting my time discussing why there are better alternatives for them. For my close friends I might give it a shot, but thankfully most here in UG took the hard science / business route and don't require any advice. I always find it weird when just an acquaintance or someone I'm not cool with starts discussing their life plans with me and expects me to comment, but evidently that's not so weird going from all the, "How do I convince him not to join LS" threads on TLS.
Last edited by hyakku on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PutSumGravyOnIt
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby PutSumGravyOnIt » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:05 am

Fellow 0L here. In a sense I'm with pixel in that it's functionally important to be pumped up about law school right now. Nearly everyone on these forums has been "broken" in one way or another, and I'm pretty sure the same thing will happen with me. But for now, I have to be excited; if I'm not, I've probably already doomed myself. If law school's gonna break me, it'll have to put in the work--which I'm sure it will readily do. I do appreciate the idea of going into law school with an appropriate awareness of what it entails, I just can't let that determine how I feel about it at this time.

Cheers to all those slogging through as we speak.

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angrybird
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby angrybird » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:09 am

rad lulz wrote:Also, to do well in law school, it means someone has to do worse. If you do kick ass, someone has to do shitty. They might never get a legal job.


Image

this is why it helps to hate your classmates.

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Stefyhead
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby Stefyhead » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:44 am

pixleprincess wrote:I would venture that those who see ls as a means to an end are surely optimistic that the future holds something better than the now.

I never said law is noble, just that I've already been up and down the idealist ladder.

It does bother me that someone else does shitty for nearly or more everyone that does well- but I can't control that, I can only try and work hard and not think about my hard work in dreary or crippling terms.


I'm with you on the optimism. I'm quitting a crappy, decent paying job for law school. Let it "break" me. It's three friggin years of my life... I'll survive. It's a shame we won't be at the same school, because I'm sure we'd get along great.

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romothesavior
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:16 am

hyakku wrote:OP most forums just have people with a cynical attitude. In my 13+ Years of internetting it has never changed. As you said, most people attending LS think it's tough, but not gouge your eyes out, the sky is falling tough the rest of TLS makes it out to be. At the same time it's kind of the nature of a forum; there isn't much discussion to an idea like "Hiring is fine, everyone is getting jobs and things couldn't be better!" compared to, "If you go to any school outside of these 14 you're fucked."

Law school isn't that tough. I, too, hate the martyr mentality of law students. It's like 3 months of partying/chilling while doing reading/goingto class, and then one month of intense studying. A lot of work at times, but not so bad. Nothing compared to being a lawyer, that's for sure.

What IS absolutely miserable right now is the job market. Go check out any employment forum on this website and look at the data for yourselves. Then compare that to the average debtload. It is truly mind-boggling that people continue to go into this kind of debt for such piss poor job prospects.

I can see how it would be easy to write TLS off as just "cynical internetting," or worse (elitism? c'mon), but most of us are current law students (people just like you) and we're trying to help. This site helped me a lot when I was a 0L, and now I try to pass some of that along to the next batch. I have never understood why 0Ls get so pissy when people just tell them the frank and honest truth in a sincere and well-intentioned way. Unfortunately, the naivete we see in the OP is endemic among 0Ls, and it leads to thousands upon thousands of terrible financial and career decisions every year.

OP, you hav egreat stats and could do really well for yourself if you retook, or at the very least, do a full cycle. Going to BLS with a 168/3.9? Kinda silly. Try not to let your excitement cloud your judgment. And for christ's sake, tone it down with the rah rah attitude. It is great to be optimistic and excited about this new phase in your life (I was too when I was a 0L), but there is a point where it goes from optimism to irrational idiocy.

rad lulz
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:21 am

I actually think law school is really hard. It's stressful because you don't know whether you'll be employed so you work so fucking hard.

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hyakku
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby hyakku » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:09 am

romothesavior wrote:
hyakku wrote:OP most forums just have people with a cynical attitude. In my 13+ Years of internetting it has never changed. As you said, most people attending LS think it's tough, but not gouge your eyes out, the sky is falling tough the rest of TLS makes it out to be. At the same time it's kind of the nature of a forum; there isn't much discussion to an idea like "Hiring is fine, everyone is getting jobs and things couldn't be better!" compared to, "If you go to any school outside of these 14 you're fucked."

Law school isn't that tough. I, too, hate the martyr mentality of law students. It's like 3 months of partying/chilling while doing reading/goingto class, and then one month of intense studying. A lot of work at times, but not so bad. Nothing compared to being a lawyer, that's for sure.

What IS absolutely miserable right now is the job market. Go check out any employment forum on this website and look at the data for yourselves. Then compare that to the average debtload. It is truly mind-boggling that people continue to go into this kind of debt for such piss poor job prospects.

I can see how it would be easy to write TLS off as just "cynical internetting," or worse (elitism? c'mon), but most of us are current law students (people just like you) and we're trying to help. This site helped me a lot when I was a 0L, and now I try to pass some of that along to the next batch. I have never understood why 0Ls get so pissy when people just tell them the frank and honest truth in a sincere and well-intentioned way. Unfortunately, the naivete we see in the OP is endemic among 0Ls, and it leads to thousands upon thousands of terrible financial and career decisions every year.


I agree with all of this. And yea, I've gotta say some of TLS' scare tactics helped make my decision when applying, thankfully one of my top choices gave me nearly a full ride, but I do agree that going into a lot of debt isn't the best option for job prospects now. I guess what I should've said is that I just don't get the unsolicited advice up here, as most people are genuinely helpful and looking out for the OP.

OP, you hav egreat stats and could do really well for yourself if you retook, or at the very least, do a full cycle. Going to BLS with a 168/3.9? Kinda silly. Try not to let your excitement cloud your judgment. And for christ's sake, tone it down with the rah rah attitude. It is great to be optimistic and excited about this new phase in your life (I was too when I was a 0L), but there is a point where it goes from optimism to irrational idiocy.


And this is something I really hope the OP reads. If I had a 3.9 I'd either retake for at least a 170 and enjoy one of CCNMVDP with $$ or at least reapply early and try to land GULC/Cornell/Mich/NW with some nice Scholly money. Either way though man don't toss away all that work (not that BLS is the worst school ever, but with those stats you might as well take advantage).

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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby woeisme » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:17 am

I really liked law school.....

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pixleprincess
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Re: C/o 2015 kickin ass, takin names: a declaration of optimism

Postby pixleprincess » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:04 am

All my "ra ra ra" is an active attempt at countering the "ba ba ba" of this forum.

I'm not retaking, and I'm of perfectly sound mind and happy with this decision. If I went to the trouble of explaining why retake/reapply doesnt apply to me, folks would stfu ... But it's personal, and irrelevant anyway.

Woeisme - love the juxtaposition of ur sn and comment !

I guess I'm looking for more people who've loved law school... I personally know several. Also, in a very general way- we can't control the job market or the substance of the work we'll have to do, just how much effort we put into it and our attitude toward it. I think if my outlook mirrored this site's id never be able to commit to three years of law school in the first place. Maybe a necessary cognitive dissonance? I'm curious to see if this holds up a year from now- but that challenge, just like ls itself seems like a worthwhile one to tale on




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