Georgetown Class of 2015

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2015)
johndhi
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby johndhi » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:42 pm

thelawschoolproject wrote:
Witt wrote:Anyone leaning one way or another on choosing between curriculum A or B? I'm leaning toward B right now because of its public-interest slant.



I wasn't aware that Curriculum B had a public-interest slant? I'm more partial to it, though, for its emphasis on theory and philosophy.



hi, Section 3 alum here. it is fair to say PI students make up a greater % of the students in Section 3 than in the other sections. does the curriculum itself create a better runway for a public interest career? I would not say necessarily so. certainly the ideas you learn in Curric. B can easily comport with the ideas already in the head of a PI-candidate, but I expect that is the case for any section. you are, however, more likely to get a liberal professor in sec3 than in the other sections.

this doesn't mean it isn't also a good path for someine interseted in biglaw (e.g., me). OCI interviewers have no bias one way or the other from what I've heard and experienced.

I'll also point out that the "emphasis on history and philosophy," that was explained to me was different than what I expected. Having done a lot of history and philosophy, proper, I expected stuff from those disciplines; not so, we're really talking about "legal history," or "legal philosophy," which are sort of blurry areas between the two expoused in articles written by lawyers who fancy themselves historians or philosophers, or wise old judges who sought to explain why lawyers do what they do.

happy to answer any sec3 or general questions. welcome to the community.

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Witt
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby Witt » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:02 pm

Thanks for your input!

Did you find the legal history/legal philosophy interesting or useful (I suppose I'm asking if the exams partially focused on the history/philosophy)? Did you use supplements? If so, was it difficult to utilize supplements because of the curriculum?

dksinghal
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby dksinghal » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:36 pm

kind of after the fact...but i got in ED--i probably met some of you at ASW. question: has anyone applied for PILS?

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abstract
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby abstract » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:36 pm

Witt wrote:Did you find the legal history/legal philosophy interesting or useful (I suppose I'm asking if the exams partially focused on the history/philosophy)? Did you use supplements? If so, was it difficult to utilize supplements because of the curriculum?


Hello all. I just received my official letter Thursday night and am leaning heavily toward GULC (live in DC and applied only to DC-area schools). I am looking at practicing law at the intersection of IP/cultural heritage/technology, which often falls under PI. Very excited to be able to post here, and hope everyone's cycle is going well.

I am similarly interested in Curriculum B, and in the above question. As a section, are the B folks especially collegial or cohesive? Also wondering whether the coursework would later have any impact on bar prep?

Lastly, if anyone has any DC-specific questions, I am happy to answer them!

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Campagnolo
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby Campagnolo » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:19 pm

Got the faculty book in the mail. What impressive facial hair! Definitely the best of any T14 faculty I've seen.

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abstract
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby abstract » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:17 pm

Campagnolo wrote:Got the faculty book in the mail. What impressive facial hair! Definitely the best of any T14 faculty I've seen.


Haha. I have not yet seen the faculty book, but if the bike tour video on GULC's youtube channel is any indication, then yes, at least one of their rank is impressively moustachioed. Makes me look forward to Movember.

johndhi
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby johndhi » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:59 pm

Witt wrote:Thanks for your input!

Did you find the legal history/legal philosophy interesting or useful (I suppose I'm asking if the exams partially focused on the history/philosophy)? Did you use supplements? If so, was it difficult to utilize supplements because of the curriculum?


Thanks to Volsi for reminding me to check this thread. A few minutes ago she accosted me publicly, telling me I'm "prolific" on TLS and "post on there every day." Trying to get my clerkship application on, girl! That G.T.L. guy is a beast, so I've been checking this site a lot. :twisted:

Yes, I found the Curriculum B readings both interesting and useful - both in the way you define useful and in the sense that I apply the readings in my life and in my other classes. There are two basic types of questions on law school exams: "issue spotters" and "policy questions." Issue spotters ask you to read a story and explain where and how the legal doctrines you've learned apply. Policy questions ask you to consider the state of the law you have read and comment on whether you feel it is a good thing, or to argue one way or the other (or both) regarding the rules as they exist. You might also need to explain that rules don't really exist yet, or are unclear.

Exams given in Curriculum B tend to have more of the latter type of question (policy questions). Usually the majority of your grade depends on issue spotting, but some of the Curric. B. tests could be as much as 33-40% dependent on a policy question. It is my impression that Curriculum A exams are in a range of 0-25% policy questions.

To answer a policy question, it's helpful to read materials that look at the law from a distance or consider why things are the way they are. This might mean a particularly thoughtful and ranging opinion by a judge, or a famous piece of scholarship on the topic. I find these materials interesting, and they are useful because they help you answer policy questions.

In classic Section 3 form, I'll note that the dichotomy I've set up between issue spotters and policy questions isn't so clear cut, and is really a tool one uses to talk about this stuff.

Supplements: yes, I used them. I met a 2L who was a nerd like me and had purchased multiple supplements for each class, and she kindly sold them all to me (if anyone's interested, I still have them). I think Glannon on Civil Procedure is great and was helpful to me. My professor was sufficiently clear in Property, so I didn't really use that one. I probably should have used them more for Torts/Contracts ("Bargain, Exchange and Liability" is the year-long, one-course version of those subjects), but maybe I'm just sour because I didn't do as well in that class.

I was afraid it would be difficult to use supplements because of the different course materials, too. I wouldn't say it was particularly difficult; I used the supplements to better understand materials I didn't get from class or my notes, and the topic in which I was interested was almost always covered in the supplement. Plus, if class is a little different from the supplement, the work you'll have to do in investigating why that is and what it means will broaden your understanding of the material; supplements can be a good way to see another way to look at things.

abstract wrote:
Hello all. I just received my official letter Thursday night and am leaning heavily toward GULC (live in DC and applied only to DC-area schools). I am looking at practicing law at the intersection of IP/cultural heritage/technology, which often falls under PI. Very excited to be able to post here, and hope everyone's cycle is going well.

I am similarly interested in Curriculum B, and in the above question. As a section, are the B folks especially collegial or cohesive? Also wondering whether the coursework would later have any impact on bar prep?

Lastly, if anyone has any DC-specific questions, I am happy to answer them!


Cool. I think you are making the right choice in choosing GULC over George Washington, even if you're interested in IP. I think they have more courses in the area than we do, but we have some pretty kickass professors for IP and from what I've seen, the name takes you further. I'm going to be a summer associate at a firm that's big into IP this summer and I did a science major in undergrad.

I think everyone at Georgetown would agree Curriculum B is "especially collegial or cohesive," yes. I've made truly great friendships with truly great people and I wouldn't trade them for anything. I just had a party at my house last night and getting Section 3ers to come is like setting food out and waiting for ants to come - we have a ton of love for each other and tend to be very supportive. The other sections have some great people, too, but from what I've seen, Section 3 tends to be pretty obviously more like a summer camp. If there is a group of 30 people in the Cafeteria who've congregated tables together to have a gigantic lunch together, it's most likely Section 3. This isn't to take anything away from the other sections, and there is something to be said for a different style of community; there are many people from other sections I count among those great friendships I mention above.

I'm not an expert on bar prep since I haven't done it yet, but I'm not worried about it. Be like Buddha and don't live life based on what bar prep is going to be like. From what I hear, at Yale they don't teach any black letter law and spend most of their time kayaking and reading opinions from the 18th Century England; I'm sure Yale's bar passage rate is fine.

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volsi
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby volsi » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:28 pm

johndhi wrote:
Witt wrote:Thanks for your input!

Did you find the legal history/legal philosophy interesting or useful (I suppose I'm asking if the exams partially focused on the history/philosophy)? Did you use supplements? If so, was it difficult to utilize supplements because of the curriculum?


Thanks to Volsi for reminding me to check this thread. A few minutes ago she accosted me publicly, telling me I'm "prolific" on TLS and "post on there every day." Trying to get my clerkship application on, girl! That G.T.L. guy is a beast, so I've been checking this site a lot. :twisted:


If by public, you mean in front of 3 friends in the journal lounge, then yes, I did accost you publicly. 8)
Johndhi and I are veterans of the Class of 2013 thread, so we give each other shit to this day.

Btw, I am happy to answer questions on the 3/4 of the 1L curriculum that isn't all about your feelings. :twisted:

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abstract
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby abstract » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:07 am

volsi wrote:If by public, you mean in front of 3 friends in the journal lounge, then yes, I did accost you publicly. 8)
Johndhi and I are veterans of the Class of 2013 thread, so we give each other shit to this day.

Btw, I am happy to answer questions on the 3/4 of the 1L curriculum that isn't all about your feelings. :twisted:


Nice. :) And thanks, johndhi, for answering my questions.

Volsi, I realize this is still technically a secondary 1L curriculum question, but can you give your take on why one might want to choose the primary curriculum over B? What are its advantages?

Also, can either of you talk about GULC's opportunities vis-a-vis experiential learning, whether in clinics, externships, journals, student orgs, etc.? What have been good opportunities for you? How did you decide where to get involved?

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volsi
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby volsi » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:01 am

abstract wrote:
volsi wrote:If by public, you mean in front of 3 friends in the journal lounge, then yes, I did accost you publicly. 8)
Johndhi and I are veterans of the Class of 2013 thread, so we give each other shit to this day.

Btw, I am happy to answer questions on the 3/4 of the 1L curriculum that isn't all about your feelings. :twisted:


Nice. :) And thanks, johndhi, for answering my questions.

Volsi, I realize this is still technically a secondary 1L curriculum question, but can you give your take on why one might want to choose the primary curriculum over B? What are its advantages?

Also, can either of you talk about GULC's opportunities vis-a-vis experiential learning, whether in clinics, externships, journals, student orgs, etc.? What have been good opportunities for you? How did you decide where to get involved?


My reasons for choosing the traditional curriculum were as follows: I wanted to be immersed in law. I didn't want to have all that interdisciplinary stuff because I'd had it in college (English major, creative writing concentration, sociology minor, did a lot of critical theory, women's studies, post-colonial criticism, etc). As it turns on, my understanding of curriculum B at the point when I had to make my choice was imperfect, because, as Johndhi said earlier, its not really about philosophy but about legal philosophy.

The reason I feel the traditional curriculum like it was the right choice for me was teaching style. Curriculum B is very much about how the students feel about the law - how it was created, how it stands now, etc. Although I am fairly liberal, it is downright irritating to me when the class discussion focuses on how a particular student feels about a subject. I don't care. If I wanted to know how X person felt about tort law, I could have talked to them about it in the caf, or at a bar after class. I want to hear what the professor has to say about how they feel, rather than my fellow student. After all, the prof is the one grading the exam and my fellow student is a 1L who doesn't know any better than I do.

Do I feel like I got pretty much the same legal education as someone in Curriculum B? Yeah. Still, there aren't a lot of Curriculum B students in my commercial law classes this semester (Business Bankruptcy, Secured Transactions, Intro to U.S. Capital Markets).

As far as externships, student orgs, etc:
One of my best friends is externing in the Senate this semester (judiciary committee). I've done work with Legal Counsel for the Elderly. There are tons and tons of externships and many people take advantage of them. I'm also on a Journal that publishes all our notes, I've gotten to do substantive independent writing. My friends in clinics absolutely love them - there isn't a business-y clinic or I'd totally be into it. Student Org wise, there are very many opportunities - the trick with these is not to do too much.

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abstract
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby abstract » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:17 am

volsi wrote:My reasons for choosing the traditional curriculum were as follows: I wanted to be immersed in law. I didn't want to have all that interdisciplinary stuff because I'd had it in college (English major, creative writing concentration, sociology minor, did a lot of critical theory, women's studies, post-colonial criticism, etc). As it turns on, my understanding of curriculum B at the point when I had to make my choice was imperfect, because, as Johndhi said earlier, its not really about philosophy but about legal philosophy.

The reason I feel the traditional curriculum like it was the right choice for me was teaching style. Curriculum B is very much about how the students feel about the law - how it was created, how it stands now, etc. Although I am fairly liberal, it is downright irritating to me when the class discussion focuses on how a particular student feels about a subject. I don't care. If I wanted to know how X person felt about tort law, I could have talked to them about it in the caf, or at a bar after class. I want to hear what the professor has to say about how they feel, rather than my fellow student. After all, the prof is the one grading the exam and my fellow student is a 1L who doesn't know any better than I do.

Do I feel like I got pretty much the same legal education as someone in Curriculum B? Yeah. Still, there aren't a lot of Curriculum B students in my commercial law classes this semester (Business Bankruptcy, Secured Transactions, Intro to U.S. Capital Markets).

As far as externships, student orgs, etc:
One of my best friends is externing in the Senate this semester (judiciary committee). I've done work with Legal Counsel for the Elderly. There are tons and tons of externships and many people take advantage of them. I'm also on a Journal that publishes all our notes, I've gotten to do substantive independent writing. My friends in clinics absolutely love them - there isn't a business-y clinic or I'd totally be into it. Student Org wise, there are very many opportunities - the trick with these is not to do too much.


This is excellent. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Regardless of which 1L curriculum I choose, the feedback you and Johndi have provided has me really looking forward to GULC. You (and others with whom I've spoken) seem like an incredibly thoughtful and engaged lot, and program sounds as though it will be rife with opportunity. I am concerned about how not to go overboard with extracurriculars, but I imagine I can figure that out once I get there, survey my course load, and talk to people who have been through it.

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abstract
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby abstract » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:33 am

johndhi wrote:Supplements: yes, I used them. I met a 2L who was a nerd like me and had purchased multiple supplements for each class, and she kindly sold them all to me (if anyone's interested, I still have them). I think Glannon on Civil Procedure is great and was helpful to me. My professor was sufficiently clear in Property, so I didn't really use that one. I probably should have used them more for Torts/Contracts ("Bargain, Exchange and Liability" is the year-long, one-course version of those subjects), but maybe I'm just sour because I didn't do as well in that class.


I forgot to mention, Johndhi--if nobody has yet called dibs on your supplements, then I might be interested in purchasing them from you. We can PM?

pcwcecac
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby pcwcecac » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:33 am

Did everyone get his/her acceptance through snail mail?

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abstract
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby abstract » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:36 am

pcwcecac wrote:Did everyone get his/her acceptance through snail mail?


As far as I can tell, yes. I did. It came in a cream-colored envelope and looked like a holiday card or a wedding invite.

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Witt
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby Witt » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Is anybody considering living on campus?

Leighmak
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby Leighmak » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am

I have some more questions for johndhi and volsi. (Thanks so much for taking the time to answer our questions btw! :) ) I've heard the clinics are pretty competitive, and I'm wondering how difficult it really is to get into one. How are people chosen for them (grades, resume, essays, etc.?) Are there certain clinics that are especially difficult to get into?

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luxxe
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby luxxe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:48 pm

Witt wrote:Is anybody considering living on campus?

If I end up at GULC (which is looking very likely) I am.

spiritniffler189
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby spiritniffler189 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:08 pm

Does anyone know where the "yellow form" for financial aid is? Can't find it on the ASW although the FinAid website says its there...thanks in advance!

testudo
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby testudo » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:39 am

just got my RD acceptance last week. Maryland lifer and im finishing up my undergrad down the road

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volsi
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby volsi » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:57 am

Leighmak wrote:I have some more questions for johndhi and volsi. (Thanks so much for taking the time to answer our questions btw! :) ) I've heard the clinics are pretty competitive, and I'm wondering how difficult it really is to get into one. How are people chosen for them (grades, resume, essays, etc.?) Are there certain clinics that are especially difficult to get into?


As far as I can tell, most people who want a clinic get it. There is is a list on our intranet of clinic applications v acceptance rates. Different clinics have different standards; a lot are self selecting. Not everyone wants to do Housing, not everyone wants to do International Women's Human Rights, etc. I have friends who have done the Housing and the Asylum clinic as 2Ls, as well as 3L friends in Appellate Litigation and Domestic Violence. Appellate litigation is the most competitive.
Its much harder to get a clinic as a 2L than as a 3L.
Essays and resume are important for clinics - they are all a lot of work and the coordinators want to make sure you're into it. I honestly do not know how much grades factor in.

However...
When I was first coming to Georgetown I wanted to the appellate litigation clinic SO BAD. Now, midway through second semester of 2L, I'm not planning on doing any clinics at all. My interest is in commercial and transactional law and there isn't a clinic for that yet, though they are developing one. It likely won't be ready before I graduate.

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southernsuperstar
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby southernsuperstar » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:11 am

luxxe wrote:
Witt wrote:Is anybody considering living on campus?

If I end up at GULC (which is looking very likely) I am.


johndhi and volsi- could you talk about living on campus? I'm interested in this just because I feel like it would be so much easier than finding an apartment, but is it really similar to college-style dorm living?

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moxy
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby moxy » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:40 am

southernsuperstar wrote:
luxxe wrote:
Witt wrote:Is anybody considering living on campus?

If I end up at GULC (which is looking very likely) I am.


johndhi and volsi- could you talk about living on campus? I'm interested in this just because I feel like it would be so much easier than finding an apartment, but is it really similar to college-style dorm living?


You started posting here!! Not waiting for the letter? hahahahaha

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southernsuperstar
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby southernsuperstar » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:53 am

moxy wrote:
southernsuperstar wrote:
luxxe wrote:
Witt wrote:Is anybody considering living on campus?

If I end up at GULC (which is looking very likely) I am.


johndhi and volsi- could you talk about living on campus? I'm interested in this just because I feel like it would be so much easier than finding an apartment, but is it really similar to college-style dorm living?


You started posting here!! Not waiting for the letter? hahahahaha


Back off moxy!!! I LOVE Georgetown and I'm just trying to get a head start on the apartment hunt haha :oops:

applesoranges123
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby applesoranges123 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:04 pm

In terms of housing, at gerweiz, I saw that there are a number of different setups that you can choose from i was thinking of taking maybe the two bedroom or 3 bedroom setup, maybe the 2 bedroom efficiency without the living room or the proper 2 bedroom apt with the living room. i havent really seen much of the housing, are there any setups that you would recommend not living in? (i.e. super claustrophic or ends up being too noisy or something). i definitely dont want the singles...also, hows the social life/environment at the school (i.e. super competitive or pretty collegial) and hows the student body?? ive heard mixed reports about how competitive it gets, so was just wondering! thanks! :)

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moxy
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Re: Georgetown Class of 2015

Postby moxy » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:13 pm

southernsuperstar wrote:
Back off moxy!!! I LOVE Georgetown and I'm just trying to get a head start on the apartment hunt haha :oops:


Haha .. I will leave you be :) .. I will gather the courage to post more on here .. in about a week .. for now .. I am too much of a chicken




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