Michigan Law Class of 2015

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2015)

Which ASW do you plan to attend?

March 15-17
35
34%
March 29-31
46
44%
Both
3
3%
Neither
20
19%
 
Total votes: 104

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby UnamSanctam » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 am

That reinforces the typical Michigan advice of "You probably won't be able to negotiate scholarship unless you're awarded none, and then you can negotiate a peer scholarship."

WE ARE GOING TO BE CLASSMATES TLSP.

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crooked
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby crooked » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:07 am

thelawschoolproject wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
thelawschoolproject wrote:I just got 60k to attend Michigan.


FUCK YES HERE I COME.


Congrats... but... what took them so long... didn't you get admitted way back when? Did they initially offer you a different amount, or nothing at all and you requested funds? And (sorry for all the questions, I'm just very curious as your specific case does not seem to follow the same path everyone else has had so far), is it exactly $20k/year, or is it the $22.5k or $18k? I wasn't aware they did $20k/year as an amount.

Oh... and SWEET.

ETA: Bring back the Hermione tar.



<3 Hermione, it'll happen soon, although there's another poster who has the same tar...lame-o.

I was admitted in December, and not given any award.

In January I received a significant scholly to a peer school and then earlier this week I wrote to Mich saying I'd like to attend but I had another great offer. Two days later (that day being today) they wrote me back and offered me the 60k.

I <3 Michigan.


That's absurdly awesome. That's a year of school paid for. Congratulations!

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thelawschoolproject
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby thelawschoolproject » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:50 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:That reinforces the typical Michigan advice of "You probably won't be able to negotiate scholarship unless you're awarded none, and then you can negotiate a peer scholarship."

WE ARE GOING TO BE CLASSMATES TLSP.



:D :D Super excited. I expect monthly renditions of Pumbaa-Music.

EdgarWinter
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby EdgarWinter » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:12 pm

Whoa it is possible to negotiate with Michigan? How about negotiating larger offers?

When I started applying Michigan was definitely a top choice (I just hear great things about it) but $$$ considerations are getting in the way. Michigan offered $75k but there's a decent shot Cornell throws me full-tuition and UVA just offered $105k. Plus LSN shows that UVA raised a lot of 90-105k offers up to full tuition (or close enough) later on in last year's cycle.

I know I'm already in an awesome spot (and by explaining this situation I hope I'm not being an arrogant arse), but is there any hope that I could leverage these offers into an even bigger scholly from Michigan? The stuff in the scholarship letter about "it is not our practice to compete with offers from other schools" and the fact that their offer is already pretty big makes me fear that I've hit the end of the road as far as Michigan $$ is concerned. I fear that they won't negotiate with peer offers once those offers hit a certain size.

Thanks for all you help!

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby UnamSanctam » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:14 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:Whoa it is possible to negotiate with Michigan? How about negotiating larger offers?

When I started applying Michigan was definitely a top choice (I just hear great things about it) but $$$ considerations are getting in the way. Michigan offered $75k but there's a decent shot Cornell throws me full-tuition and UVA just offered $105k. Plus LSN shows that UVA raised a lot of 90-105k offers up to full tuition (or close enough) later on in last year's cycle.

I know I'm already in an awesome spot (and by explaining this situation I hope I'm not being an arrogant arse), but is there any hope that I could leverage these offers into an even bigger scholly from Michigan? The stuff in the scholarship letter about "it is not our practice to compete with offers from other schools" and the fact that their offer is already pretty big makes me fear that I've hit the end of the road as far as Michigan $$ is concerned. I fear that they won't negotiate with peer offers once those offers hit a certain size.

Thanks for all you help!


Michigan generally only negotiates scholarships when they originally offer nothing. If they've offered something already, they probably won't increase it.

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JoeMo
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby JoeMo » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:48 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:Whoa it is possible to negotiate with Michigan? How about negotiating larger offers?

When I started applying Michigan was definitely a top choice (I just hear great things about it) but $$$ considerations are getting in the way. Michigan offered $75k but there's a decent shot Cornell throws me full-tuition and UVA just offered $105k. Plus LSN shows that UVA raised a lot of 90-105k offers up to full tuition (or close enough) later on in last year's cycle.

I know I'm already in an awesome spot (and by explaining this situation I hope I'm not being an arrogant arse), but is there any hope that I could leverage these offers into an even bigger scholly from Michigan? The stuff in the scholarship letter about "it is not our practice to compete with offers from other schools" and the fact that their offer is already pretty big makes me fear that I've hit the end of the road as far as Michigan $$ is concerned. I fear that they won't negotiate with peer offers once those offers hit a certain size.

Thanks for all you help!


2 things: 1) I thought Michigan's highest non-Darrow was 67.5k 2) if you have 75k or 67.5k it's probably not worth trying to get them to increase since you're already at the highest end. Aside from asking for a Darrow invite which IMO would not look very good.

EdgarWinter
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby EdgarWinter » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:14 pm

Bummer figured that was the case. Oh well. Thanks for the advice! @JoeMo: I know non-Darrows go up to at least $75k (unless Dean Z gave me $7500 on accident?). I think I've seen 90 or 100k before but those were probably just partial Darrows I guess :/.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:04 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:Bummer figured that was the case. Oh well. Thanks for the advice! @JoeMo: I know non-Darrows go up to at least $75k (unless Dean Z gave me $7500 on accident?). I think I've seen 90 or 100k before but those were probably just partial Darrows I guess :/.


Aside from negotiated scholarships, the standard non-Darrow amounts are:

$15k, $30k, $45k, $54k, and $67.5k.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby Mr. Somebody » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:05 pm

I'm surprised you didn't get a darrow invite EW.

03121202698008
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:16 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:Bummer figured that was the case. Oh well. Thanks for the advice! @JoeMo: I know non-Darrows go up to at least $75k (unless Dean Z gave me $7500 on accident?). I think I've seen 90 or 100k before but those were probably just partial Darrows I guess :/.


Aside from negotiated scholarships, the standard non-Darrow amounts are:

$15k, $30k, $45k, $54k, and $67.5k.


Also 10k

EdgarWinter
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby EdgarWinter » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:24 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:I'm surprised you didn't get a darrow invite EW.


Haha thanks for the flattery :). I think they like LSATs a little higher than mine and coming right from undergrad might hurt me a bit. Would have been truly awesome though!

From peering at LSN I can see several other $75k non-Darrows. Maybe it's a new thing this year.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:Bummer figured that was the case. Oh well. Thanks for the advice! @JoeMo: I know non-Darrows go up to at least $75k (unless Dean Z gave me $7500 on accident?). I think I've seen 90 or 100k before but those were probably just partial Darrows I guess :/.


Aside from negotiated scholarships, the standard non-Darrow amounts are:

$15k, $30k, $45k, $54k, and $67.5k.


Also 10k


They do a $10k over 3 years? I guess it is better than nothing at all.

03121202698008
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:27 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:Bummer figured that was the case. Oh well. Thanks for the advice! @JoeMo: I know non-Darrows go up to at least $75k (unless Dean Z gave me $7500 on accident?). I think I've seen 90 or 100k before but those were probably just partial Darrows I guess :/.


Aside from negotiated scholarships, the standard non-Darrow amounts are:

$15k, $30k, $45k, $54k, and $67.5k.


Also 10k


They do a $10k over 3 years? I guess it is better than nothing at all.


No, 10k per. That's the lowest amount they do. I've never heard of anyone getting 5 per unless that's new this year.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:41 pm

blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Aside from negotiated scholarships, the standard non-Darrow amounts are:

$15k, $30k, $45k, $54k, and $67.5k.


Also 10k


They do a $10k over 3 years? I guess it is better than nothing at all.


No, 10k per. That's the lowest amount they do. I've never heard of anyone getting 5 per unless that's new this year.


I've not seen that amount reported on LSN nor has anyone mentioned it in any of the threads this year, but it is listed on the UMich website that $5k/year is the lowest amount they offer.

And, I may have been misinformed, but when I spoke with financial aid with regard to my award to find out if I would pocket all of it or only the amount up to the COA (approx. $18k), I was told I would get to keep all of it and that $67.5k is the most they award (not including Darrows).

Kurst
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby Kurst » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:54 pm

Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:05 pm

Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D

ETA: The only thing that I wish could be changed is the BAH. Rather than pay the E5 rate for everyone, I wish they would allow those that had a higher rank to get the rate for their rank, whether it be E, W, or O grade.
Last edited by ScrabbleChamp on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

imjustjoking22
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby imjustjoking22 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:06 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D


So if you feel like sharing...I'm here. Just sayin.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:08 pm

imjustjoking22 wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D


So if you feel like sharing...I'm here. Just sayin.


2nd ASW I'll pay for a round of drinks... other than that, I'm going to have to learn to live on a much tighter budget... I'm leaving a cushy job.

imjustjoking22
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby imjustjoking22 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:11 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
imjustjoking22 wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D


So if you feel like sharing...I'm here. Just sayin.


2nd ASW I'll pay for a round of drinks... other than that, I'm going to have to learn to live on a much tighter budget... I'm leaving a cushy job.


Damn it, I'm not gonna be at 2nd ASW barring a miracle. Too poor, actually. Haha.

C'mon mich, give me a teeny bit of money? Just for kicks?

03121202698008
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:42 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D

ETA: The only thing that I wish could be changed is the BAH. Rather than pay the E5 rate for everyone, I wish they would allow those that had a higher rank to get the rate for their rank, whether it be E, W, or O grade.


Uh, kind of. Technically, only the scholarship amount used for qualifying purposes is tax free. (Room & board doesn't count....only tuition, books, and technology required by the school.) The rest is taxable. According to Turbotax (and their CPA who provided an official opinion for me so they have to defend if get audited) you can essentially get away with tax free up to the cost of tuition (minus the YR for the out-of-state difference) as they apply the scholly prior to the GI Bill in their calculation. H&R Block doesn't link the fields and its unclear if the whole amount should be taxable income. If you apply the GI Bill first, it is all income as there are no qualifying costs left. They have you simply subtract any tuition costs reimbursed when inputting the cost from the 1099 so it would end up all taxed.

Your BAH is of course tax free. Also, you will get no education deductions on your taxes since all of your costs are reimbursed...
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:46 pm

blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D

ETA: The only thing that I wish could be changed is the BAH. Rather than pay the E5 rate for everyone, I wish they would allow those that had a higher rank to get the rate for their rank, whether it be E, W, or O grade.


Uh, kind of. Technically, only the scholarship amount used for qualifying purposes is tax free. (Room & board doesn't count....only tuition, books, and technology required by the school.) The rest is taxable. According to Turbotax (and their CPA who provided an official opinion for me so they have to defend if get audited) you can essentially get away with tax free up to the cost of tuition (minus the YR for the out-of-state difference) as they apply the scholly prior to the GI Bill in their calculation. H&R Block doesn't link the fields and its unclear if the whole amount should be taxable income.


So, to ensure I follow, as long as the scholly is less than full-tuition + books + technology fees, then it is tax free? So, unless you get a Darrow (which I would imagine they don't give to vets due to the fact that we go for free, anyway), it is all tax free.

03121202698008
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:47 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Kurst wrote:Since the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill covers tuition, will that $67,500 be deposited into your bank account tax free? Plus BAH for 48109?


Yes and Yes. :-D

ETA: The only thing that I wish could be changed is the BAH. Rather than pay the E5 rate for everyone, I wish they would allow those that had a higher rank to get the rate for their rank, whether it be E, W, or O grade.


Uh, kind of. Technically, only the scholarship amount used for qualifying purposes is tax free. (Room & board doesn't count....only tuition, books, and technology required by the school.) The rest is taxable. According to Turbotax (and their CPA who provided an official opinion for me so they have to defend if get audited) you can essentially get away with tax free up to the cost of tuition (minus the YR for the out-of-state difference) as they apply the scholly prior to the GI Bill in their calculation. H&R Block doesn't link the fields and its unclear if the whole amount should be taxable income.


So, to ensure I follow, as long as the scholly is less than full-tuition + books + technology fees, then it is tax free? So, unless you get a Darrow (which I would imagine they don't give to vets due to the fact that we go for free, anyway), it is all tax free.


Correct for Federal. Unless it is compensation for services...e.g. you are teaching in another dept. Your state may treat it differently. PA considers all merit scholarships to be tax-free.

Wait, are you a vet? Then according to Turbotax its tax free. According to the code, it looks like it should all be taxed. It depends on the order you apply them. TT is of the opinion that the scholarship should be applied first since the GI Bill is tax-free on its own. However, this is odd since the GI Bill is now only payable for the same qualifying expenses covering the scholly. TT's treatment is more tax advantageous to you...and they will pay penalties if you get audited so... (They only guarantee the calculation though, so I made one of their CPAs email me saying he got the same result and it was correct so I could print and keep in records...)

But, tuition is only $48K. So, if you have more than that...make sure you plan accordingly.

And, you cannot offset by contributing to IRA because contributions are only permitted up to earned income...not counting scholarships.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:53 pm

blowhard wrote:Correct for Federal. Unless it is compensation for services...e.g. you are teaching in another dept. Your state may treat it differently. PA considers all merit scholarships to be tax-free.

Wait, are you a vet? Then according to Turbotax its tax free. According to the code, it looks like it should all be taxed. It depends on the order you apply them. TT is of the opinion that the scholarship should be applied first since the GI Bill is tax-free on its own. However, this is odd since the GI Bill is now only payable for the same qualifying expenses covering the scholly. TT's treatment is more tax advantageous to you...and they will pay penalties if you get audited so...

But, tuition is only $48K. So, if you have more than that...make sure you plan accordingly.


Yes, I am a disabled vet. My understanding from my counselor is that it is all tax-free without regard to any limit, but I doubt highly they ever run into a situation where someone is being awarded an amount over the full cost of tuition and fees.

For me, I have $22.5k/year, so I'm well under the $48k, so unless Michigan decides to more than double my scholly out of the kindness in their hearts, I don't think I'll have to worry about the tax issue.

03121202698008
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:56 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
blowhard wrote:Correct for Federal. Unless it is compensation for services...e.g. you are teaching in another dept. Your state may treat it differently. PA considers all merit scholarships to be tax-free.

Wait, are you a vet? Then according to Turbotax its tax free. According to the code, it looks like it should all be taxed. It depends on the order you apply them. TT is of the opinion that the scholarship should be applied first since the GI Bill is tax-free on its own. However, this is odd since the GI Bill is now only payable for the same qualifying expenses covering the scholly. TT's treatment is more tax advantageous to you...and they will pay penalties if you get audited so...

But, tuition is only $48K. So, if you have more than that...make sure you plan accordingly.


Yes, I am a disabled vet. My understanding from my counselor is that it is all tax-free without regard to any limit, but I doubt highly they ever run into a situation where someone is being awarded an amount over the full cost of tuition and fees.

For me, I have $22.5k/year, so I'm well under the $48k, so unless Michigan decides to more than double my scholly out of the kindness in their hearts, I don't think I'll have to worry about the tax issue.


As far as the VA is concerned, it is tax-free. The problem is the IRC section that makes scholarships tax-free doesn't contemplate this situation and supply an order to apply the tax-free VA aid and potentially tax-free scholly. You'll be in the same boat. I get $10K. So, I have $58K in aid and only $48.5K (assuming $500 in books) in qualifying expenses.

--LinkRemoved-- wrote:Sec. 117. Qualified scholarships

(a) General rule
Gross income does not include any amount received as a qualified
scholarship by an individual who is a candidate for a degree at an
educational organization described in section 170(b)(1)(A)(ii).
(b) Qualified scholarship
For purposes of this section -
(1) In general
The term ''qualified scholarship'' means any amount received by
an individual as a scholarship or fellowship grant to the extent
the individual establishes that, in accordance with the
conditions of the grant, such amount was used for qualified
tuition and related expenses.

(2) Qualified tuition and related expenses
For purposes of paragraph (1), the term ''qualified tuition and
related expenses'' means -
(A) tuition and fees required for the enrollment or
attendance of a student at an educational organization
described in section 170(b)(1)(A)(ii), and
(B) fees, books, supplies, and equipment required for courses
of instruction at such an educational organization.


Your VA stuff is treated separately and is always tax-free. But, if the GI Bill is paying all of the qualifying, its difficult to see how you can comply with §117. In general, the IRS interprets provisions favorably towards vets, which is what Turbotax is relying on. There is no IRS policy, letter ruling, or section for that treatment though in this case.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan Law Class of 2015

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:01 pm

blowhard wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
blowhard wrote:Correct for Federal. Unless it is compensation for services...e.g. you are teaching in another dept. Your state may treat it differently. PA considers all merit scholarships to be tax-free.

Wait, are you a vet? Then according to Turbotax its tax free. According to the code, it looks like it should all be taxed. It depends on the order you apply them. TT is of the opinion that the scholarship should be applied first since the GI Bill is tax-free on its own. However, this is odd since the GI Bill is now only payable for the same qualifying expenses covering the scholly. TT's treatment is more tax advantageous to you...and they will pay penalties if you get audited so...

But, tuition is only $48K. So, if you have more than that...make sure you plan accordingly.


Yes, I am a disabled vet. My understanding from my counselor is that it is all tax-free without regard to any limit, but I doubt highly they ever run into a situation where someone is being awarded an amount over the full cost of tuition and fees.

For me, I have $22.5k/year, so I'm well under the $48k, so unless Michigan decides to more than double my scholly out of the kindness in their hearts, I don't think I'll have to worry about the tax issue.


As far as the VA is concerned, it is tax-free. The problem is the IRC section that makes scholarships tax-free doesn't contemplate this situation and supply an order to apply the tax-free VA aid and potentially tax-free scholly. You'll be in the same boat. I get $10K. So, I have $58K in aid and only $48K in qualifying expenses.

--LinkRemoved-- wrote:Sec. 117. Qualified scholarships

(a) General rule
Gross income does not include any amount received as a qualified
scholarship by an individual who is a candidate for a degree at an
educational organization described in section 170(b)(1)(A)(ii).
(b) Qualified scholarship
For purposes of this section -
(1) In general
The term ''qualified scholarship'' means any amount received by
an individual as a scholarship or fellowship grant to the extent
the individual establishes that, in accordance with the
conditions of the grant, such amount was used for qualified
tuition and related expenses.
(2) Qualified tuition and related expenses
For purposes of paragraph (1), the term ''qualified tuition and
related expenses'' means -
(A) tuition and fees required for the enrollment or
attendance of a student at an educational organization
described in section 170(b)(1)(A)(ii), and
(B) fees, books, supplies, and equipment required for courses
of instruction at such an educational organization.


Your VA stuff is treated separately and is always tax-free. But, if the GI Bill is paying all of the qualifying, its difficult to see how you can comply with §117.


I can see how that does pose a predicament. But, worst-case-scenario is that, at the end of the year, I have to report it is income. But, even if that is the case, it will essentially still be tax-free given my deductions and offsets will remove any tax liabilities I may have.




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