How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

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James Bond
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby James Bond » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:16 am

OperaSoprano wrote:I won't get into differences in natural ability, in the classroom or anywhere else, because Rayiner will kill me if I say one more word about intercaste dating. Suffice to say that seeing someone outside of your law school tier can lead to complications, most of them self inflicted.


that is just sad :?

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby soullesswonder » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:18 am

biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I won't get into differences in natural ability, in the classroom or anywhere else, because Rayiner will kill me if I say one more word about intercaste dating. Suffice to say that seeing someone outside of your law school tier can lead to complications, most of them self inflicted.


that is just sad :?


no kidding.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby BruceBarr » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:30 am

rayiner wrote:I'd support this thread if it were:

"How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads... in bed..."

This is the real pressing question of our time!



aaahahaha

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OperaSoprano
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:34 am

soullesswonder wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I won't get into differences in natural ability, in the classroom or anywhere else, because Rayiner will kill me if I say one more word about intercaste dating. Suffice to say that seeing someone outside of your law school tier can lead to complications, most of them self inflicted.


that is just sad :?


no kidding.


The whole situation is :cry: , though there are many happy memories. When you do this, though, you constantly wonder whether you were smart enough for the person in question. The rankings give people so many concrete ways to compare themselves and come up short.

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James Bond
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby James Bond » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:40 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
soullesswonder wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I won't get into differences in natural ability, in the classroom or anywhere else, because Rayiner will kill me if I say one more word about intercaste dating. Suffice to say that seeing someone outside of your law school tier can lead to complications, most of them self inflicted.


that is just sad :?


no kidding.


The whole situation is :cry: , though there are many happy memories. When you do this, though, you constantly wonder whether you were smart enough for the person in question. The rankings give people so many concrete ways to compare themselves and come up short.


you...honestly compare yourself to guys via the rankings? :|

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:49 am

biv0ns wrote:
you...honestly compare yourself to guys via the rankings? :|


Indirectly. This boy just radiated genius, and I suppose I would have asked the same questions no matter the context in which I met him. To his credit, he never implied that I was anything but intelligent. I did that to myself, and the rankings were a useful proxy for doing so.

If I'd been T6 material, perhaps things still would have ended as they did, but I often wonder whether he thought I was good enough for him, in the objective sense.

(I have now made this thread quite depressing. I apologize, and I know I should go find one of my classmates, or some CLS boy, but I really don't want to.)

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby theanomalie » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:49 am

rondemarino wrote:BTW, Pat Robertson got a J.D. from Yale.


He sure did, and could not even pass the bar

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James Bond
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby James Bond » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:54 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
you...honestly compare yourself to guys via the rankings? :|


Indirectly. This boy just radiated genius, and I suppose I would have asked the same questions no matter the context in which I met him. To his credit, he never implied that I was anything but intelligent. I did that to myself, and the rankings were a useful proxy for doing so.

If I'd been T6 material, perhaps things still would have ended as they did, but I still wonder whether he thought I was good enough for him, in the objective sense.

(I have now made this thread quite depressing. I apologize.)


OS you need a big hug, an even bigger self esteem boost, and an even bigger dose of reality :P

If he honestly turned you down because of where you go to law school, he is a complete and utter tool. If you thought you weren't good enough because of where you go to law school, you need to step away from TLS.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby Unadilla Kayaker » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:01 am

biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
you...honestly compare yourself to guys via the rankings? :|


Indirectly. This boy just radiated genius, and I suppose I would have asked the same questions no matter the context in which I met him. To his credit, he never implied that I was anything but intelligent. I did that to myself, and the rankings were a useful proxy for doing so.

If I'd been T6 material, perhaps things still would have ended as they did, but I still wonder whether he thought I was good enough for him, in the objective sense.

(I have now made this thread quite depressing. I apologize.)


OS you need a big hug, an even bigger self esteem boost, and an even bigger dose of reality :P

If he honestly turned you down because of where you go to law school, he is a complete and utter tool. If you thought you weren't good enough because of where you go to law school, you need to step away from TLS.


+1

Besides, from your postings you seem as knowledgeable, articulate, and intelligent as anyone on TLS. Fordham is a great school, and I'm pretty sure that I would not have liked the atmosphere at the t6 schools. I couldn't get in, so some may think I'm trying to make myself feel better, but frankly I wouldn't have wanted to apply anywhere above UVA other than Michigan. You got into the school you wanted and now you need to kick ass!

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby rayiner » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:02 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
leobowski wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Are you serious?

When people graduate from law school, they generally have equal knowledge of the law (whether it be Yale or just about any other law school).

That knowledge is pretty much useless to employers.

So they have to train you - whether it be judges or partners.

What distinguishes schools are the rankings.

While firms do enjoy hiring people at the top of a class, there is little difference between them and someone at the middle of a class.

You need to distinguish between "real" differences and "firm perceived" differences in your question.



Could you expound on this a bit? Why exactly is there little difference between these two- what if the person @ the top spent literally twice as much time studying? That would at least seem to speak volumes as to their work ethic and dedication.


Okay. The number of hours you spend studying do not correlate to your rank in the class.

The person who rarely studied could be the one at the top of the class.

True, spending countless hours studying does speak to ethic and dedication.

But no employer is going to ask you how long you studied (I guarantee this).

Grades for any given class (that's not a seminar - they have research papers instead) are determined on a one shot 3-4 hour examination.

You're exam grade comes from not only what you cover, but how you cover it.

Say, you present the answer in a form the professor didn't like - then your grade will be lower than the classmate that did present it in the way the professor likes (even if their answers were exactly the same).

That may seem minimal, but it can mean the difference between an A and a C.

The person who did not present the information as well may have covered all of the topics.

Does the fact that they received a C mean they are less intelligent/less prepared than someone with an A?

Firms like to think so - they use it as a way to distinguish between students.

But in actuality, no.

The professor bias to the form of your wirk is not present once you actually begin practicing.

Why do you think HYS only give High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, Fail grades? (low pass and fail are essentially never given out)

They do that because there is no difference between students (the only reason they give high pass is so they won't get sued by students that do "well")


You're vastly overstating your case. If you get a C at a T25, it wasn't subjectivity that killed you, it was being out to lunch on spotting the issues.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:05 am

biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
you...honestly compare yourself to guys via the rankings? :|


Indirectly. This boy just radiated genius, and I suppose I would have asked the same questions no matter the context in which I met him. To his credit, he never implied that I was anything but intelligent. I did that to myself, and the rankings were a useful proxy for doing so.

If I'd been T6 material, perhaps things still would have ended as they did, but I still wonder whether he thought I was good enough for him, in the objective sense.

(I have now made this thread quite depressing. I apologize.)


OS you need a big hug, an even bigger self esteem boost, and an even bigger dose of reality :P

If he honestly turned you down because of where you go to law school, he is a complete and utter tool. If you thought you weren't good enough because of where you go to law school, you need to step away from TLS.


Thanks for that, lol.

The boy didn't turn me down, per se. I just wasn't ...enough... to hold his interest when he had studying and other things to do. I love my law school, but I know where we stand, and I felt I'd overreached in falling for this boy. This description of events is what made people think he'd treated me badly.

He never did. He just stopped being interested, and I never knew why exactly.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby James Bond » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:08 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
Thanks for that, lol.

The boy didn't turn me down, per se. I just wasn't ...enough... to hold his interest when he had studying and other things to do. I love my law school, but I know where we stand, and I felt I'd overreached in falling for this boy. This description of events is what made people think he'd treated me badly.

He never did. He just stopped being interested, and I never knew why exactly.


Maybe he just didn't like you and it had nothing to do with where the two of you went to school, Opera. Besides, if you didn't sing "Think of Me" for him you didn't bring your A game yet anyway :wink:

You can't take everything so personally. He didn't appreciate your company? Then fuck him. You'll find someone who does. :mrgreen:

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:11 am

biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Thanks for that, lol.

The boy didn't turn me down, per se. I just wasn't ...enough... to hold his interest when he had studying and other things to do. I love my law school, but I know where we stand, and I felt I'd overreached in falling for this boy. This description of events is what made people think he'd treated me badly.

He never did. He just stopped being interested, and I never knew why exactly.


Maybe he just didn't like you and it had nothing to do with where the two of you went to school, Opera. Besides, if you didn't sing "Think of Me" for him you didn't bring your A game yet anyway :wink:

You can't take everything so personally. He didn't appreciate your company? Then fuck him. You'll find someone who does. :mrgreen:


He definitely liked me, for a while. That's what makes it so mystifying... I suppose we all blame ourselves for these things. He heard me sing, though not at my best.

You are sweet for trying to cheer me up. I've been in a funk lately that perhaps only hard work will cure.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby James Bond » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:17 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Thanks for that, lol.

The boy didn't turn me down, per se. I just wasn't ...enough... to hold his interest when he had studying and other things to do. I love my law school, but I know where we stand, and I felt I'd overreached in falling for this boy. This description of events is what made people think he'd treated me badly.

He never did. He just stopped being interested, and I never knew why exactly.


Maybe he just didn't like you and it had nothing to do with where the two of you went to school, Opera. Besides, if you didn't sing "Think of Me" for him you didn't bring your A game yet anyway :wink:

You can't take everything so personally. He didn't appreciate your company? Then fuck him. You'll find someone who does. :mrgreen:


He definitely liked me, for a while. That's what makes it so mystifying... I suppose we all blame ourselves for these things. He heard me sing, though not at my best.

You are sweet for trying to cheer me up. I've been in a funk lately that perhaps only hard work will cure.


It's November. I'm in the same thing here in undergrad. Only like a month to go until finals and already burnt out with tons of work today.

Anyhow, I just felt the urge to correct your negative thinking in regards to guys not liking you because you're not from a T6 school. That's retarded, OS. If we were in person I'd smack you lol. :P

I don't like when people put themselves down, especially when those people have proven, on the internet at least, to be far more worthy of compliments not insults.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby soullesswonder » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:30 am

biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Thanks for that, lol.

The boy didn't turn me down, per se. I just wasn't ...enough... to hold his interest when he had studying and other things to do. I love my law school, but I know where we stand, and I felt I'd overreached in falling for this boy. This description of events is what made people think he'd treated me badly.

He never did. He just stopped being interested, and I never knew why exactly.


Maybe he just didn't like you and it had nothing to do with where the two of you went to school, Opera. Besides, if you didn't sing "Think of Me" for him you didn't bring your A game yet anyway :wink:

You can't take everything so personally. He didn't appreciate your company? Then fuck him. You'll find someone who does. :mrgreen:


He definitely liked me, for a while. That's what makes it so mystifying... I suppose we all blame ourselves for these things. He heard me sing, though not at my best.

You are sweet for trying to cheer me up. I've been in a funk lately that perhaps only hard work will cure.


It's November. I'm in the same thing here in undergrad. Only like a month to go until finals and already burnt out with tons of work today.

Anyhow, I just felt the urge to correct your negative thinking in regards to guys not liking you because you're not from a T6 school. That's retarded, OS. If we were in person I'd smack you lol. :P

I don't like when people put themselves down, especially when those people have proven, on the internet at least, to be far more worthy of compliments not insults.


doing that on the internet may actually be more impressive than doing it IRL

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:31 am

biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Thanks for that, lol.

The boy didn't turn me down, per se. I just wasn't ...enough... to hold his interest when he had studying and other things to do. I love my law school, but I know where we stand, and I felt I'd overreached in falling for this boy. This description of events is what made people think he'd treated me badly.

He never did. He just stopped being interested, and I never knew why exactly.


Maybe he just didn't like you and it had nothing to do with where the two of you went to school, Opera. Besides, if you didn't sing "Think of Me" for him you didn't bring your A game yet anyway :wink:

You can't take everything so personally. He didn't appreciate your company? Then fuck him. You'll find someone who does. :mrgreen:


He definitely liked me, for a while. That's what makes it so mystifying... I suppose we all blame ourselves for these things. He heard me sing, though not at my best.

You are sweet for trying to cheer me up. I've been in a funk lately that perhaps only hard work will cure.


It's November. I'm in the same thing here in undergrad. Only like a month to go until finals and already burnt out with tons of work today.

Anyhow, I just felt the urge to correct your negative thinking in regards to guys not liking you because you're not from a T6 school. That's retarded, OS. If we were in person I'd smack you lol. :P

I don't like when people put themselves down, especially when those people have proven, on the internet at least, to be far more worthy of compliments not insults.


Haha, thank you for said compliments. People were unfairly peeved at the boy, because they thought he put those notions in my head. In reality, the gravest and most lasting harms are those we inflict upon ourselves.

I will now stop depressing the hell out of everyone who reads this thread. Luck on your work and on finals! It's memo time, and I have to go revise, revise and revise some more.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby M51 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:42 am

@OS
But really. Wow. Seriously? I mean... I'm speechless. He better at least be on law review :twisted:
Also, loved the ref to Candle's seitan. Now you got me craving it... (the literal seitan, not the metaphor, ftr)

@OP
At the very least, you can do a bare minimum ranking of what schools take transfers from which schools at what %. CLS, NYU, HLS all have ridiculously high transfer in rates. Presumably, these students are expected to perform at at least the median (I hear anecdotally they often do much better, not too far off from their percentile rank at their old law school).

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby LawandOrder » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:20 am

Cavalier wrote:T6 grads are the only people worthy of being lawyers. I'd rather be represented by a goat than someone who couldn't even get into Chicago.


A+ post. Would LOL again.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:34 am

rayiner wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
leobowski wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Are you serious?

When people graduate from law school, they generally have equal knowledge of the law (whether it be Yale or just about any other law school).

That knowledge is pretty much useless to employers.

So they have to train you - whether it be judges or partners.

What distinguishes schools are the rankings.

While firms do enjoy hiring people at the top of a class, there is little difference between them and someone at the middle of a class.

You need to distinguish between "real" differences and "firm perceived" differences in your question.



Could you expound on this a bit? Why exactly is there little difference between these two- what if the person @ the top spent literally twice as much time studying? That would at least seem to speak volumes as to their work ethic and dedication.


Okay. The number of hours you spend studying do not correlate to your rank in the class.

The person who rarely studied could be the one at the top of the class.

True, spending countless hours studying does speak to ethic and dedication.

But no employer is going to ask you how long you studied (I guarantee this).

Grades for any given class (that's not a seminar - they have research papers instead) are determined on a one shot 3-4 hour examination.

You're exam grade comes from not only what you cover, but how you cover it.

Say, you present the answer in a form the professor didn't like - then your grade will be lower than the classmate that did present it in the way the professor likes (even if their answers were exactly the same).

That may seem minimal, but it can mean the difference between an A and a C.

The person who did not present the information as well may have covered all of the topics.

Does the fact that they received a C mean they are less intelligent/less prepared than someone with an A?

Firms like to think so - they use it as a way to distinguish between students.

But in actuality, no.

The professor bias to the form of your wirk is not present once you actually begin practicing.

Why do you think HYS only give High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, Fail grades? (low pass and fail are essentially never given out)

They do that because there is no difference between students (the only reason they give high pass is so they won't get sued by students that do "well")


You're vastly overstating your case. If you get a C at a T25, it wasn't subjectivity that killed you, it was being out to lunch on spotting the issues.


Well you know what I mean. (B- or B)

I do know that the bottom 10% at Northwestern get B-'s.

But it's all the same difference. A B- at Northwestern, a B/B-/C or anything lower (depending on the curve) at anything outside of the ~T14.

(by that, I mean those grades are treated the same)

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rayiner
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby rayiner » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:59 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Well you know what I mean. (B- or B)

I do know that the bottom 10% at Northwestern get B-'s.

But it's all the same difference. A B- at Northwestern, a C at anything outside of the ~T14.


Either way, you're vastly overstating your case. Our torts midterm was graded by the professor and returned to us, and while there was a somewhat tight spread, the scoring was very straightforward. You got docked a point whenever you missed an issue or element of an issue, or misapplied a rule to the facts, or stated a rule and failed to apply it to the facts. Eg: I got docked points for failing to realize that several people in the hypo could be held liable as multiple sufficient causes in addition to being held jointly liable under alternative liability.

On an issue spotter, you might miss a point here or there because the professor didn't get how you hit the issue, but if it drops you from an A to a B- then there is something seriously wrong with your writing style.

I'll concede that policy questions may be far more subjective....

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:00 pm

M51 wrote:@OS
But really. Wow. Seriously? I mean... I'm speechless. He better at least be on law review :twisted:
Also, loved the ref to Candle's seitan. Now you got me craving it... (the literal seitan, not the metaphor, ftr)

@OP
At the very least, you can do a bare minimum ranking of what schools take transfers from which schools at what %. CLS, NYU, HLS all have ridiculously high transfer in rates. Presumably, these students are expected to perform at at least the median (I hear anecdotally they often do much better, not too far off from their percentile rank at their old law school).


M51, see PM.

Also, Candle is my favorite restaurant in NYC. I've been a vegetarian for years. Are you, or do you just like yummy things?

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby redsox » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:17 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Well you know what I mean. (B- or B)

I do know that the bottom 10% at Northwestern get B-'s.

But it's all the same difference. A B- at Northwestern, a B/B-/C or anything lower (depending on the curve) at anything outside of the ~T14.

(by that, I mean those grades are treated the same)


Is there a reason you format your posts like this?

It makes it hard to read them.

And they take up too much space.

And you say dumb stuff.

Which only makes them even harder to read.

1474292940502124
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby 1474292940502124 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:34 pm

Cavalier wrote:T6 grads are the only people worthy of being lawyers. I'd rather be represented by a goat than someone who couldn't even get into Chicago.

I'd only hire a VA JD to couch my little girls softball team.

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Belili
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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby Belili » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:48 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
rayiner wrote:I'd support this thread if it were:

"How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads... in bed..."

This is the real pressing question of our time!


Chicago FTW...all those sexually repressed conservatives.


Absolutely not. Do you want someone performing a cost-benefit analysis before having sex with you? I don't.

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Re: How Much Better are [T6] Grads than [T25] grads . . .

Postby Cavalier » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:50 pm

betasteve wrote:
Cavalier wrote:T6 grads are the only people worthy of being lawyers. I'd rather be represented by a goat than someone who couldn't even get into Chicago.

I'd only hire a VA JD to couch my little girls softball team.

Does that mean you'll only hire someone from the T6 to coach the softball team?




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