As a TLSer I have a certain presumption that no one outside of the website reads things like the law school success articles by arrow, xeoh, jaycutler etc... I think if I memorize my outlines and practice analysis with plenty of practice tests, check against model answers, adapt, etc that I will be competing for the top grades.

However, I've been noticing that a ton of other people are carrying around outlines and practice tests and appear to be putting a lot of effort into preparing for finals. Now, I'm at a tier 2, so I know the competition is even greater at the t14, so with articles by people at NYU and UCLA whose strategies I more or less adopt, how is it possible for my classmates to do worse than I am? haha, i'm paranoid and curious about what people think.

I know appearances can be deceiving (the popular story of the gunner who gets bad grades) but I get the feeling everyone is working as hard as I am. Anyone else?


edited for some clarity.

I feel the exact same way. I also go to a Tier 2. I have been very thorough throughout the semester of reading each case, briefing each case and updating my outlines every weekend. In the last couple of weeks, I've been spending a fair amount of time with supplements and practice tests. But I have this lurking feeling that at least half of my section is doing the same thing, if not more. I was feeling fine a couple of weeks ago, but in the last couple of days I've really been concerned that I haven't done enough throughout the semester and that I won't be able to compete for top grades in my class.

I haven't started on practice exams yet, and I intentionally waited until there was about a month left until finals to do outlining (most of my finals are CLOSED note, so memorizing the outline is the most important part... thus I wanted to wait as late as possible to keep the info from the outlining process fresh).

However, I've been doing work in the EEs and Glannon Guides all semester long. I don't know literally one other person in my section or 1L class that does this. I see some guys who have tabbed out commercial outlines, but that's about it. I have at least 2 people per week who stop by my desk in the library and ask what I'm doing and what books those are I'm reading (Glannon EEs and Guides).

I also go to a T2.

There's a difference between working hard and working smart. Probably, most of your classmates ARE working as hard as you are. You all want the same things and, in a particularly competitive school, know you all have to work for them. The question arises, as apper123 pointed out, whether your classmates are studying as well as you are. I know quite a few people here (T10) that spend a lot of their study time trying to memorize every nuance of the cases in case they get called on in class. They spend so long memorizing the minute details of the matter that they end up wasting time. When the exam comes, it won't matter how much minute detail they have locked in their brain, but how well they can spot issues, reason their way through arguments and apply cases.

So don't worry about how much other people study. Worry only that you are studying as much as you need and in the way you need. Personally, I think E&E's are the way to go. I read the cases, but I basically just skim them for the holding and reasoning. I bet a lot of your classmates aren't working as smartly or efficiently as youa re.

the link to xeoh's advice seems to be down for me, can someone repost the link. Also what was jayculter's advice? Thanks!

xeoh's thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36635

life is just too short, there are too many more important things, than to worry about law school performance. just study as hard as you want to without losing track of the bigger things in life. in the end, grades are beyond your control, at least certain factors are, and the law school system as a whole is neither fair or logical.

just be.

lol

I saw some guy in the library the other day re-reading Pierson v. Post... the first case in the property book. Meanwhile, I was cranking through civil procedure problems and doing essays about easements. There's something to be said for getting the BLL down cold, having it readily in your memory, and practicing it on paper.

OP:

The competition is not "even greater at a T14". Not even close. Most of the people here have a ton of faith in their natural ability and are people who generally have their program together without having to spend 6 hours a day in the library. We're only ~5 weeks away from exams and people here are only now beginning to think seriously about outlines and exams. This all cuts against what I've heard from friends at T2s and T4s.

Stop worrying about what other people are doing. That's called "gunning".

Just an aside: I feel like the only person who's missing what's so especially useful about the E&Es. Unless I don't understand what the professor teaches (common in Crim and Torts, but not at all in Ks and CivPro because my profs are fantastic), I see no reason to turn to the E&Es to spend an hour to read and absorb a 15-20 page chapter that either A) just repeats everything my professor said or B) teaches signifiantly more/less/different material than my professor. I've found a few chapters in every E&E invaluable - for example, 2-207 and parol evidence rule in Ks - but the questions and answers at the end of each chapter are great only if they're testing you on what you've discussed in your class. And commercial outlines, since they're often clear statements of the BLL without much else, tend to be more helpful in constructing an outline than the E&Es.

Yeah, that would probably be a bad presumption to make. The stuff on this site isn't top-secret or anything. A lot of people at my school grind it out, use supplements, practice tests, focus on the exam, etc. That's what's scary about law school. You can put in the 16 hour days and do the right stuff (eg not spending all your time memorizing the minutiae of a case for class), and still not make top 33% or whatever, due to bad luck, simply "not having it," or whatever.

I don't worry too much about what other people do, but I do use the other people as motivation to work harder. Not everyone studies at school either, so while you're putting in 16 hour days, someone else is at home putting in 18 hour days.

This thread is a great example of why you should A) go to a good law school where you can have some semblance of decent job prospects even if you fall on the fat part of the curve (a lot harder ITE, I know) and B) why you should never count on being top 10%, Law Review, or equivalent. Your classmates will be as smart as you are. Your classmates will work as hard as you do.

Tell me about it! These days, I read my casebooks as little as possible--especially my Contracts casebook. I swear Satan wrote that book to torment me .

I would be immediately wary of advice on success given by someone with the name Jay Cutler.


Just kidding. I'm sure it's fine. Still though...

I think people at T14s can justifiably rely on their natural abilities more than people at T4s. This makes the intellectual competition "even greater" at T14 while creating the illusion that since others aren't studying, you also don't need to study.

Only 6 hours a day in the library? UVA must really be a lot more chill than NU.

I spend an average of 4 hours a day studying, and I'd say that's average, or slightly above, for my section. FWIW, the few people I know who have been all-consumed in the library 24/7 absolutely bombed their mid-terms.

What's so hard to believe about the possibility that other people at your school will do better than you? Of course it's possible. Given that there exist lots of them and only one of you, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that it's overwhelmingly probable.

Use fear as a motivator. Whenever I'd get tired of studying, I'd remind myself that somewhere, someone in my class was studying at that moment. Then I'd study harder, and pop more caffine pills.

Also, absolutely ignore what methods other people are using to study. The only "right" way to study is the way that works for you. And stay the hell out of the library - panic is contagious, and you want to be be the steady hammer, pounding away relentlessly. Worrying about other people's methods is weakness - devise your own system, and if you are intelligent and lucky, you'll do well. Don't let yourself fail due to lack of effort - I worked harder in 1L year than at any other time in my life.

But just remember only 10% of people around you will end up in the top 10%. And of the 90% that aren't in the to 10%, 90% of them thought they would be.

Ended up #1 in my class first semester, and it was a shock. But, in retrospect, I worked my ass off. Overstudy.

Thanks for the great posts everyone. I will say that I had no illusions of whipping everyone on grades, but it definitely was a reality check. It seemed to me that a lot of exam taking advise carries with it this "no one knows/practices these strategies!" sort of mentality...maybe it's just me.