How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

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postitnotes
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby postitnotes » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:18 pm

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Last edited by postitnotes on Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

sperry
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby sperry » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:48 pm

This makes me cry. The only exam I've taken so far was half multiple choice/ half 1 policy essay question, 3 1/2 hours. I wrote 1500 words :oops: I refuse to talk to anyone in my section about the exam, but I would imagine I'm in the bottom 10% of word count on the exam.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:53 pm

postitnotes wrote:it depends on what type of class. for "easy" to bullshit classes, probably 7k. for harder to bs classes, probably 4k. either way, i typed a fair amount of bullshit today, so we'll what happens....


If you're bullshitting you're not getting a good grade no matter how much you type. You could type 10k of bullshit and still not get anywhere. Welcome to the median.

Snooker
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Snooker » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:05 am

It's been proven in numerous LSAC studies that LSAT + undergraduate GPA is the best predictor of 1L grades.


This comment is out of place in the context a conversation where it is pointed out that the LSAT has a very low correlation to success on take-home exams. The only reason the LSAT measures law school success is that 1L grades are measured according to a very peculiar testing format. But once you take away that testing type, the LSAT has minimal relevance. There is really little foundation to the argument that blacks and hispanics are less intelligent or less qualified to be lawyers - on average - than whites.

Nonetheless every week someone will start a thread questioning why we let so many minorities into law schools when their test scores are so low. This test should really have no legitimacy in the eyes of thinking people.

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rayiner
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby rayiner » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:41 am

Snooker wrote:
It's been proven in numerous LSAC studies that LSAT + undergraduate GPA is the best predictor of 1L grades.


This comment is out of place in the context a conversation where it is pointed out that the LSAT has a very low correlation to success on take-home exams. The only reason the LSAT measures law school success is that 1L grades are measured according to a very peculiar testing format. But once you take away that testing type, the LSAT has minimal relevance. There is really little foundation to the argument that blacks and hispanics are less intelligent or less qualified to be lawyers - on average - than whites.

Nonetheless every week someone will start a thread questioning why we let so many minorities into law schools when their test scores are so low. This test should really have no legitimacy in the eyes of thinking people.


This is a terrible argument. It's basically: we don't like the result, so the test must be flawed.

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Blindmelon
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:55 am

Both my Civ Pro and Contracts professor told us the A+ grades are usually concise. If you vomit arguments onto the computer, they take off points.

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zanda
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby zanda » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:10 am

I just took my 1st such exam... was in the 5k-6k range.

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CE2JD
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:55 pm

zanda wrote:I just took my 1st such exam... was in the 5k-6k range.


Failure. You might as well get a head start looking for shitlaw jobs.

Inygma
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Inygma » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:24 pm

CE2JD wrote:
zanda wrote:I just took my 1st such exam... was in the 5k-6k range.


Failure. You might as well get a head start looking for shitlaw jobs.



LOL. I See what you did thar.

caoyun
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby caoyun » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:24 pm

zanda wrote:I just took my 1st such exam... was in the 5k-6k range.


The gunners in your class wrote eleventy billion words per question. You lose. Good day, Sir.

postitnotes
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby postitnotes » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:37 pm

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Last edited by postitnotes on Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

1474292940502124
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby 1474292940502124 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:53 pm

postitnotes wrote: there was definitely a relationship between word count and grade (at least in certain types of classes).

I would say there is some correlation between word count and grade. I mean in issue spotters the more issues you catch, the more words you have. But, what makes the correlation less predictive is that some people may right a fuckton of BLL or ramble while making few points, and you may also have people that catch every issue but do it concisely. My guess is that there is some sort of proportional relationship, roughly, but at some point you hit diminishing returns.

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rayiner
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby rayiner » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:48 pm

betasteve wrote:
postitnotes wrote: there was definitely a relationship between word count and grade (at least in certain types of classes).

I would say there is some correlation between word count and grade. I mean in issue spotters the more issues you catch, the more words you have. But, what makes the correlation less predictive is that some people may right a fuckton of BLL or ramble while making few points, and you may also have people that catch every issue but do it concisely. My guess is that there is some sort of proportional relationship, roughly, but at some point you hit diminishing returns.


There is probably a certain correlation. When your professor throws exams down the stairs to see who gets what grades, the longer ones with more pages will fall quicker and land higher-up on the stairs, while the shorter, lighter, ones will float further down.

1474292940502124
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby 1474292940502124 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:10 pm

rayiner wrote:
betasteve wrote:
postitnotes wrote: there was definitely a relationship between word count and grade (at least in certain types of classes).

I would say there is some correlation between word count and grade. I mean in issue spotters the more issues you catch, the more words you have. But, what makes the correlation less predictive is that some people may right a fuckton of BLL or ramble while making few points, and you may also have people that catch every issue but do it concisely. My guess is that there is some sort of proportional relationship, roughly, but at some point you hit diminishing returns.


There is probably a certain correlation. When your professor throws exams down the stairs to see who gets what grades, the longer ones with more pages will fall quicker and land higher-up on the stairs, while the shorter, lighter, ones will float further down.

But, if he throws them hard enough, the lighter ones may be more subject to wind resistance? they may actually end up closer... Fuck.. now there may not be a correlation at all.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:12 pm

betasteve wrote:But, if he throws them hard enough, the lighter ones may be more subject to wind resistance? they may actually end up closer... Fuck.. now there may not be a correlation at all.

I think the professors burn them. The ones with more paper = last longer in burning, ergo higher grade

1474292940502124
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby 1474292940502124 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:14 pm

Lxw wrote:
betasteve wrote:But, if he throws them hard enough, the lighter ones may be more subject to wind resistance? they may actually end up closer... Fuck.. now there may not be a correlation at all.

I think the professors burn them. The ones with more paper = last longer in burning, ergo higher grade

Plausible. Now I know I should have used bluebooks... I coulda sprayed them with some fire resistant shit...

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joobacca
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby joobacca » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:18 pm

~1800 words / hour
i can type faster, but i can't think of more shit to write
the bottleneck is my brain/knowledge/issue spotting abilities

Snooker
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Snooker » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:22 pm

rayiner wrote:
Snooker wrote:
It's been proven in numerous LSAC studies that LSAT + undergraduate GPA is the best predictor of 1L grades.


This comment is out of place in the context a conversation where it is pointed out that the LSAT has a very low correlation to success on take-home exams. The only reason the LSAT measures law school success is that 1L grades are measured according to a very peculiar testing format. But once you take away that testing type, the LSAT has minimal relevance. There is really little foundation to the argument that blacks and hispanics are less intelligent or less qualified to be lawyers - on average - than whites.

Nonetheless every week someone will start a thread questioning why we let so many minorities into law schools when their test scores are so low. This test should really have no legitimacy in the eyes of thinking people.


This is a terrible argument. It's basically: we don't like the result, so the test must be flawed.


Arguments of the type "the result of a decision is bad, therefore the decision was bad" are terrible arguments. Have you never read a judicial decision that advocates changing a policy because the results are bad?

Edit - you may have also missed the point where I come out and say that blacks and hispanics, on average, are not intellectually inferior or less competent to be lawyers than white people. You also probably missed the part where I said I am not saying that the LSAT is not an invalid test, because I explicitly say that the test accurately measures what the makers say it measures. i.e. they do not say it measures intelligence or competence. But I am saying that any belief that the LSAT score gap somehow proves that your minority classmates are in any way inferior or less qualified than the white students is absolutely false. Lots of empirical evidence backs this up.

(you should also note that the empircal evidence about minority achievement relates back to a relevant argument)

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wiseowl
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby wiseowl » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 pm

we need to make an LSAT/intelligence/success megapost like the ITE megapost. im tired of this stupid shit clogging every potentially useful thread.

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CE2JD
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:00 pm

wiseowl wrote:we need to make an LSAT/intelligence/success megapost like the ITE megapost. im tired of this stupid shit clogging every potentially useful thread.


Image

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Kohinoor
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:26 pm

sperry wrote:This makes me cry. The only exam I've taken so far was half multiple choice/ half 1 policy essay question, 3 1/2 hours. I wrote 1500 words :oops: I refuse to talk to anyone in my section about the exam, but I would imagine I'm in the bottom 10% of word count on the exam.

I'm hearing stories from professors and students that suggest that writing a 20 page screed on an exam where the call of the question was specifically limited to narrow the discussion is a way to toss yourself into the median or below pile. On "what result?" you write 20 pages. On "what impact does promissory estoppel have on the claim of B" 20 pages suggests that you don't know what you're talking about.

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Kohinoor
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:30 pm

Just one anecdote, but a friend and his friend got an A- and A respectively on their exams. 4 pages and 2 pages respectively. Same issues spotted. When they asked the prof about it, he said "It took you 4 pages to say what he said in 2."

postitnotes
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby postitnotes » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:00 pm

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Last edited by postitnotes on Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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apper123
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby apper123 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:04 pm

I don't think anyone should be thinking about word count. Spot as many issues as you see that are relevant and explore them to the extent that is necessary. Period. Major issue? More exploration needed. Minor issue? Less exploration needed. If this results in a long essay (and it often will), then fine. However, sometimes it won't result in a long essay. Maybe the professor provided a real concise fact pattern because he/she got lazy or wanted to include a second essay with a massive fact pattern or this or that. Just apply the BLL as you know it, spot as many issues as you can and be done with it. Don't bullshit, unless it's a policy essay, then bullshit a little bit.

How your professor asked and answered questions in class should be (IMO) a huge indication of the type of answers he/she is looking for on the exam. My torts professor was very to the point and didn't find long restatements of BLL or verbose, detailed applications of facts necessary. Noted and applied on his exam (which also had a strict word limit). My Property professor was very policy oriented and said in class multiple times she likes it when people back up BLL answers with the policy behind them. Noted, and I went into detail on policy on the exam. My CivPro professor is very long winded and likes to flesh everything out in massive detail looking at every possible angle. Noted, and on that exam (my last) I expect to write a ton.

Disclaimer: this advice is coming from a 1L with only a little bit of grade feedback so far. So take what I say with a massive grain of salt, but I have taken 1283483248 practice exams with answers and evaluated myself, so I think I have somewhat of an idea.
Last edited by apper123 on Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CE2JD
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Re: How many words (on average) do you write for exam answer?

Postby CE2JD » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:06 pm

If it makes people feel better, every single "model answer" that I've looked at on the American University past exams website is LESS than 10k words (I'd save average length is between 6000 and 7000).




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