Dealing with depression at law school...

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lawlover829
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby lawlover829 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:23 am

gooooooooooooooood luck.

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apper123
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby apper123 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:37 am

Garinold wrote:
apper123 wrote:Nearly all schools offer free counseling and psychological services. These services are, surprisingly to most people, quite good. I implore you to seek them out. I have had many friends who have completely turned their lives around from depression with the help of a counselor. They aren't going to tell you what to do (although they may guide you at times), but they will help you through your own healing and strengthening process.

They may refer you to a psychiatrist. Regardless of your feelings on medications, at least go and talk to them. It can't hurt. Some people really do need medications, as there are legit chemical causes of depression that no amount of talk therapy can get under control alone.

You'll learn, over time, how to deal with the symptoms of your depression and heal. It will never go away, but you'll learn to manage it to a point where it doesn't bother you anymore. I hope that makes sense. It's hard to describe.

One thing to realize: people not suffering from depression will never understand. They'll never get it. Take their advice or words with a grain of salt. They may say "just get over it" or that meds "are for weaklings." Shake it off. They just don't know what they are talking about.


I should have been talking to someone for awhile now, but I just haven't had much faith in it. I've been to psychologists when I was a kid, in high school, and for a brief while in college and it was always the same message. I needed to have more joy in my life. I needed go and see a psychiatrist, I needed to take up more activities and hobbies. I needed to have a "loving" relationship with someone. I needed to have more balance. I'm not saying the message will be the same now, its just that I have my doubts about what the "professionals" have to offer me specifically. In law school at least, and especially where I am going, I don't have the resources to take up other activities or hobbies and really wouldn't have the slightest idea about how to add balance to my life. As far as a relationship is concerned, its never gonna happen.


I think you'll find that school psychologists take a bit of a different approach. It's worth a try. What do you have to lose?

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Garinold
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Garinold » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:41 am

apper123 wrote:
Garinold wrote:
apper123 wrote:Nearly all schools offer free counseling and psychological services. These services are, surprisingly to most people, quite good. I implore you to seek them out. I have had many friends who have completely turned their lives around from depression with the help of a counselor. They aren't going to tell you what to do (although they may guide you at times), but they will help you through your own healing and strengthening process.

They may refer you to a psychiatrist. Regardless of your feelings on medications, at least go and talk to them. It can't hurt. Some people really do need medications, as there are legit chemical causes of depression that no amount of talk therapy can get under control alone.

You'll learn, over time, how to deal with the symptoms of your depression and heal. It will never go away, but you'll learn to manage it to a point where it doesn't bother you anymore. I hope that makes sense. It's hard to describe.

One thing to realize: people not suffering from depression will never understand. They'll never get it. Take their advice or words with a grain of salt. They may say "just get over it" or that meds "are for weaklings." Shake it off. They just don't know what they are talking about.


I should have been talking to someone for awhile now, but I just haven't had much faith in it. I've been to psychologists when I was a kid, in high school, and for a brief while in college and it was always the same message. I needed to have more joy in my life. I needed go and see a psychiatrist, I needed to take up more activities and hobbies. I needed to have a "loving" relationship with someone. I needed to have more balance. I'm not saying the message will be the same now, its just that I have my doubts about what the "professionals" have to offer me specifically. In law school at least, and especially where I am going, I don't have the resources to take up other activities or hobbies and really wouldn't have the slightest idea about how to add balance to my life. As far as a relationship is concerned, its never gonna happen.


I think you'll find that school psychologists take a bit of a different approach. It's worth a try. What do you have to lose?


I have nothing to lose

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worldtraveler
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:42 am

OP have you tried going to a support group? I had really sever PTSD symptoms for a long time (I know it's not the same thing, but similar problems functioning). I tried therapy and absolutely loathed it. I tried out about 5 pyschologists/psychiatrists and I just hated going to every single one. I hate talking about things with a complete stranger and I think it actually made me worse. I would get really pissed off and angry every time I had to go but I kept making myself do it because everybody told me it was a good idea.
I quit that, and joined a PTSD support group. It was about 1000x better. I think my main problem was I didn't like being told what to do, and that did not work well in therapy. Support groups are better for just knowing that other people are struggling with the same things, and you can all help each other.

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Garinold
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Garinold » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:45 am

worldtraveler wrote:OP have you tried going to a support group? I had really sever PTSD symptoms for a long time (I know it's not the same thing, but similar problems functioning). I tried therapy and absolutely loathed it. I tried out about 5 pyschologists/psychiatrists and I just hated going to every single one. I hate talking about things with a complete stranger and I think it actually made me worse. I would get really pissed off and angry every time I had to go but I kept making myself do it because everybody told me it was a good idea.
I quit that, and joined a PTSD support group. It was about 1000x better. I think my main problem was I didn't like being told what to do, and that did not work well in therapy. Support groups are better for just knowing that other people are struggling with the same things, and you can all help each other.


I actually never thought about that.

pithypike
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby pithypike » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:48 am

ntzsch wrote:I mean, there is nothing you can really do, we all know that life sucks, but no need for resignation.


No way man. Life is amazing.

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Drake014
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Drake014 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:52 am

ntzsch wrote:
pithypike wrote:
ntzsch wrote:I mean, there is nothing you can really do, we all know that life sucks, but no need for resignation.


No way man. Life is amazing.


to a degree that is commensurate with how bad it sucks


You're not helpful. Please go away.

avram
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby avram » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:13 am

I'm sorry to hear you're finding law school isn't what you expected. It's easy for me to tell you this, but try not to blow the situation out of proportion. In the grand scheme of things, some crappy weeks at school don't mean much at all.

Have you considered taking a leave of absence? It might make sense to put law school on hold for a year - or longer. Re-enroll when you're able to put in a wholehearted effort. If you moved to a different city to go to school, maybe sublet your housing and go back home. In any case, discuss the leave with your family as soon as possible. They'll probably think it's a mature decision.

Try to find out how administrators at your school will deal with your situation. How will a leave of absence be recorded on your transcript? (I would not be deterred by the financial costs of taking a leave of absence. Even if you don't receive a partial tuition refund, your loans immediately go into repayment, and you're left on the hook for a year-long apartment lease, you should still consider taking a leave if you're not going to be able to do your best this semester.)

Also, think about how you will explain your decision to take a leave of absence to employers and law schools in the future. There are plenty of benign ways of spinning this. In fact, you may even be a better candidate for taking some time off to reconsider after taking a few weeks of civil procedure.

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geoffree
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby geoffree » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:18 am

ntzsch wrote:
Drake014 wrote:
ntzsch wrote:
pithypike wrote:
No way man. Life is amazing.


to a degree that is commensurate with how bad it sucks


You're not helpful. Please go away.


you are too simple to read that at anything other than face value.


I like what you bring to the thread. A little self-effort to perform mental aerobics towards the Truth should be a welcome alternative to the more socially accepted method of treatment. Besides, the OP has already had some experience w/ that path.
My recommendation would be self-effort to stretch mentally inward: meditation, self-inquiry, self-inquiry, self-inquiry (which you, OP, have already begun simply by posting) as well as outward: Physical stretching, workout, experiences in the domain of the 5 senses.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:53 am

Some people in this thread are either high, or do not know what depression is.

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CE2JD
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby CE2JD » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:35 am

Dialogue wrote:
CE2JD wrote:No offense to the 0Ls giving advice in here, but 0Ls don't really know what going to law school is like and hence can't speak for jack.

I've been through a lot of terrible experiences including barely surviving a horrific car accident, losing a surrogate (read: replacement) mother, and many others, but law school is a different kind of "difficult." It's a war of attrition on all your senses. It's dehumanizing to a certain extent.

You really have to experience it before you can compare it to anything else.

Also: post 4000!


I never said I understand law school. I've worked consistent 80 hour weeks in third world countries and experienced national revolution. That's a war on all your senses.

Frankly, I don't see what contribution you intended to make with your post.

There is a common denominator between people that have experienced depression. I'm sure you understand that.


I think what I'm saying is that if I were struggling with depression during law school, as a general rule, I wouldn't want a bunch of 0Ls giving me advice on how to deal with depression in general. Law school is uniquely hard to deal with if you struggle with depression. It's not like a job from which you make money. Many of use are taking out huge sums of money to do something that's really hard (read: infinitely harder than UG) and that will lead to uncertain results.
Last edited by CE2JD on Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ruleser
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby ruleser » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:41 am

Garinold wrote:I'm not going to go to deep into detail regarding the various reasons for my depression. I'll just say that I have been depressed and miserable for my entire life, or at least the amount of my life that I can remember. Based upon that amount of cynicism that I know exists on these boards I know this may sound retarded to most of you but I actually thought I'd be happy at law school. I thought the intellectual challenge & training I would be receiving for a professional career would be great for me (along with being away from family).

It turns out that I am more depressed and miserable now than I have been since childhood. Based upon what I know about the workload, exams, and the competition, I am certain that I more than smart enough to reach into the top 20% gradewise at least. However, I am so miserable at all times that its difficult to be even marginally productive. I'm barely do the readings and getting to class prepared, and I am really not making any significant headway whatsoever into working with supplements, hypoes, or outlining. I have more than enough time to do it, it just seems like my emotions have me completely paralyzed and barely able to breathe.

I know you guys aren't shrinks, but I was just wondering if there are some of you that have been through a similar situation as I am. I know according to a recent guest lecture at my school that legal profession was rated 1st in the country for depression and like 2nd for suicide out of 105 professions in some John-Hopkins study, so I'm betting that some of you law students may be struggling like I am.

How do you deal with it?

Funny you should ask, just saw a doctor who specializes in depression give a talk yesterday (to a group of seniors, but it was general info) Depression, he said, is a disease like cancer. If it is not just short-term situational type, it actually has physical effects like atrophy of certain areas of the brain, etc. He said the key to dealing with depression is to work with a doc to use medications until it is, like with cancer, in 100% remission. Then, amazingly, the brain actually regenerates. But until it is put into 100% remission, those portions of the brain don't regenerate, so it's a viscous cycle. I would go to the school's counseling center - many have them, and usually they are provided without charge or as part of the student insurance - if you feel this applies to you.

As he said, it is an actual, serious disease like others, yet because of stigmas from people thinking it's just a choice and you can just cheer up, it goes untreated. He said to think if you had diabetes or cancer, would you really not treat it.

Again, just what I heard yesterday from someone in the field - I can't assent or dissent either way.

legends159
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby legends159 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:44 am

CE2JD wrote:
Dialogue wrote:
CE2JD wrote:No offense to the 0Ls giving advice in here, but 0Ls don't really know what going to law school is like and hence can't speak for jack.

I've been through a lot of terrible experiences including barely surviving a horrific car accident, losing a surrogate (read: replacement) mother, and many others, but law school is a different kind of "difficult." It's a war of attrition on all your senses. It's dehumanizing to a certain extent.

You really have to experience it before you can compare it to anything else.

Also: post 4000!


I never said I understand law school. I've worked consistent 80 hour weeks in third world countries and experienced national revolution. That's a war on all your senses.

Frankly, I don't see what contribution you intended to make with your post.

There is a common denominator between people that have experienced depression. I'm sure you understand that.


I think what I'm saying is that if I were struggling with depression during law school, as a general rule, I wouldn't want a bunch of 0Ls giving me advice on how to deal with depression in general. Law school is uniquely hard to deal with if you struggle with depression. It's not like a job from which you make money. Many of use are taking out huge sums of money to do something that's really hard (read: infinitely harder than UG) and that will lead to uncertain results.


TITFCR.

at least with a job you get that gratification every week or bi-weekly with a paycheck. With law school you have no idea if what you're doing is good enough or the right thing and that uncertainty, along with the workload which is designed to keep you from experimenting, is what kills you.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:58 am

Garinold wrote:I'm not going to go to deep into detail regarding the various reasons for my depression. I'll just say that I have been depressed and miserable for my entire life, or at least the amount of my life that I can remember. Based upon that amount of cynicism that I know exists on these boards I know this may sound retarded to most of you but I actually thought I'd be happy at law school. I thought the intellectual challenge & training I would be receiving for a professional career would be great for me (along with being away from family).

It turns out that I am more depressed and miserable now than I have been since childhood. Based upon what I know about the workload, exams, and the competition, I am certain that I more than smart enough to reach into the top 20% gradewise at least. However, I am so miserable at all times that its difficult to be even marginally productive. I'm barely do the readings and getting to class prepared, and I am really not making any significant headway whatsoever into working with supplements, hypoes, or outlining. I have more than enough time to do it, it just seems like my emotions have me completely paralyzed and barely able to breathe.

I know you guys aren't shrinks, but I was just wondering if there are some of you that have been through a similar situation as I am. I know according to a recent guest lecture at my school that legal profession was rated 1st in the country for depression and like 2nd for suicide out of 105 professions in some John-Hopkins study, so I'm betting that some of you law students may be struggling like I am.

How do you deal with it?


1) Go to your university's student health center. They will have information on mental health services available. Some schools offer both individual and group sessions.

2) Try taking 1-2 hours a day, even if it's just every other day, to go to the gym. Do some aerobic exercise, lift some weights, work up a sweat, go sit in the sauna if they have one, take a shower and cool down, and you'll feel a lot better when you're done. Physical exercise influences the brain's chemical reactions and does prompt you to feel better.

3) Breathe. Everything is not as bad as you think. You are keeping up with the classwork, and you say you feel confident you'll make the upper quarter of the class. Keep working at it like you are and you'll get there. Sometimes it's easy to lose sight of the big picture, but right now the big picture says you're doing better than your anxiety is telling you. Unless you're sleeping 12 hours a day or manifesting other physical problems from your depression, you're not as bad off as you think, it's going to at least be manageable.

4) Tell the 0Ls giving advice on here to fuck off.

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Dialogue
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Dialogue » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:34 pm

CE2JD wrote:
Dialogue wrote:
CE2JD wrote:No offense to the 0Ls giving advice in here, but 0Ls don't really know what going to law school is like and hence can't speak for jack.

I've been through a lot of terrible experiences including barely surviving a horrific car accident, losing a surrogate (read: replacement) mother, and many others, but law school is a different kind of "difficult." It's a war of attrition on all your senses. It's dehumanizing to a certain extent.

You really have to experience it before you can compare it to anything else.

Also: post 4000!


I never said I understand law school. I've worked consistent 80 hour weeks in third world countries and experienced national revolution. That's a war on all your senses.

Frankly, I don't see what contribution you intended to make with your post.

There is a common denominator between people that have experienced depression. I'm sure you understand that.


I think what I'm saying is that if I were struggling with depression during law school, as a general rule, I wouldn't want a bunch of 0Ls giving me advice on how to deal with depression in general. Law school is uniquely hard to deal with if you struggle with depression. It's not like a job from which you make money. Many of use are taking out huge sums of money to do something that's really hard (read: infinitely harder than UG) and that will lead to uncertain results.


I understand and agree. Frankly, I would have been frustrated if a law student told me they understood what I was going through (nothing like being helpless as a kid starves). Different circumstances, different responses. However, I'm sure you can understand how someone that has experienced depression might empathize uniquely with the OP and feel a strong desire to help. If I came across in any other way, then there was a severe miscommunication.

Bowing out now. Best of luck OP.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:14 pm

Crap crap crap I suck at life.

On a side note though, if anyone did view this accidental post and wants to talk to me about similar issues, I'd be happy to chat.
Last edited by Other25BeforeYou on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby SteelReserve » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:42 pm

Garinold,

Welcome to one of the professions that has a very high depression rate. I'm sure someone can bring up the statistics, but I know I've read many studies/articles that show the legal profession has a comparatively high rate of depression. It will not get better. I wish I had some nice words to say but that's just reality. Best of luck. It's not too late to drop everything and join the peace corps.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:45 pm

SteelReserve wrote:Garinold,

Welcome to one of the professions that has a very high depression rate. I'm sure someone can bring up the statistics, but I know I've read many studies/articles that show the legal profession has a comparatively high rate of depression. It will not get better. I wish I had some nice words to say but that's just reality. Best of luck. It's not too late to drop everything and join the peace corps.


That sounds like a horrible idea for anyone with a mental health condition.

bigben
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby bigben » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:51 pm

ruleser wrote:
Garinold wrote:I'm not going to go to deep into detail regarding the various reasons for my depression. I'll just say that I have been depressed and miserable for my entire life, or at least the amount of my life that I can remember. Based upon that amount of cynicism that I know exists on these boards I know this may sound retarded to most of you but I actually thought I'd be happy at law school. I thought the intellectual challenge & training I would be receiving for a professional career would be great for me (along with being away from family).

It turns out that I am more depressed and miserable now than I have been since childhood. Based upon what I know about the workload, exams, and the competition, I am certain that I more than smart enough to reach into the top 20% gradewise at least. However, I am so miserable at all times that its difficult to be even marginally productive. I'm barely do the readings and getting to class prepared, and I am really not making any significant headway whatsoever into working with supplements, hypoes, or outlining. I have more than enough time to do it, it just seems like my emotions have me completely paralyzed and barely able to breathe.

I know you guys aren't shrinks, but I was just wondering if there are some of you that have been through a similar situation as I am. I know according to a recent guest lecture at my school that legal profession was rated 1st in the country for depression and like 2nd for suicide out of 105 professions in some John-Hopkins study, so I'm betting that some of you law students may be struggling like I am.

How do you deal with it?

Funny you should ask, just saw a doctor who specializes in depression give a talk yesterday (to a group of seniors, but it was general info) Depression, he said, is a disease like cancer. If it is not just short-term situational type, it actually has physical effects like atrophy of certain areas of the brain, etc. He said the key to dealing with depression is to work with a doc to use medications until it is, like with cancer, in 100% remission. Then, amazingly, the brain actually regenerates. But until it is put into 100% remission, those portions of the brain don't regenerate, so it's a viscous cycle. I would go to the school's counseling center - many have them, and usually they are provided without charge or as part of the student insurance - if you feel this applies to you.

As he said, it is an actual, serious disease like others, yet because of stigmas from people thinking it's just a choice and you can just cheer up, it goes untreated. He said to think if you had diabetes or cancer, would you really not treat it.

Again, just what I heard yesterday from someone in the field - I can't assent or dissent either way.



I'm sure the doc is right about the observed physical effects of depression...however there is a causation issue in there, or perhaps better to say a chicken or egg question, and I doubt the good doctor has an answer to that.

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neskerdoo
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Re: Re:

Postby neskerdoo » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:00 am

ntzsch wrote:this is uncalled for but, I would suggest smoking some pot, then realize that you are smoking pot and at T14.

I mean, there is nothing you can really do, we all know that life sucks, but no need for resignation.

if you talk to a counselor, you will soon realize that you are talking to someone (who is not as smart as you) reading from a script.

I dont think that any smart people are happy, and I'm sure that the smartest were incrediably unhappy at times.





idiot

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Attucks
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Re: Re:

Postby Attucks » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:01 pm

ntzsch wrote:this is uncalled for but, I would suggest smoking some pot, then realize that you are smoking pot and at T14.

I mean, there is nothing you can really do, we all know that life sucks, but no need for resignation.

if you talk to a counselor, you will soon realize that you are talking to someone (who is not as smart as you) reading from a script.

I dont think that any smart people are happy, and I'm sure that the smartest were incrediably unhappy at times.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJqtlVZ ... re=related

Fixed.
Last edited by Attucks on Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Kohinoor » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:35 pm

Garinold wrote:I'm not going to go to deep into detail regarding the various reasons for my depression. I'll just say that I have been depressed and miserable for my entire life, or at least the amount of my life that I can remember. Based upon that amount of cynicism that I know exists on these boards I know this may sound retarded to most of you but I actually thought I'd be happy at law school. I thought the intellectual challenge & training I would be receiving for a professional career would be great for me (along with being away from family).

It turns out that I am more depressed and miserable now than I have been since childhood. Based upon what I know about the workload, exams, and the competition, I am certain that I more than smart enough to reach into the top 20% gradewise at least. However, I am so miserable at all times that its difficult to be even marginally productive. I'm barely do the readings and getting to class prepared, and I am really not making any significant headway whatsoever into working with supplements, hypoes, or outlining. I have more than enough time to do it, it just seems like my emotions have me completely paralyzed and barely able to breathe.

I know you guys aren't shrinks, but I was just wondering if there are some of you that have been through a similar situation as I am. I know according to a recent guest lecture at my school that legal profession was rated 1st in the country for depression and like 2nd for suicide out of 105 professions in some John-Hopkins study, so I'm betting that some of you law students may be struggling like I am.

How do you deal with it?

I carry a flask.

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neskerdoo
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Re: Re:

Postby neskerdoo » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:12 pm

Attucks wrote:
neskerdoo wrote:
ntzsch wrote:this is uncalled for but, I would suggest smoking some pot, then realize that you are smoking pot and at T14.

I mean, there is nothing you can really do, we all know that life sucks, but no need for resignation.

if you talk to a counselor, you will soon realize that you are talking to someone (who is not as smart as you) reading from a script.

I dont think that any smart people are happy, and I'm sure that the smartest were incrediably unhappy at times.



idiot


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJqtlVZ ... re=related


to whom is this addressed?

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Cunning Lynguist
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Re: Dealing with depression at law school...

Postby Cunning Lynguist » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:06 pm

broken_image





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