Pot smokers in law school

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LAWYER2
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby LAWYER2 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:57 am

kwais wrote:
this is one of the least informed posts ever posted. The AMA has recognized a ton of legitemate uses for medical marijuana. The only reason it took so long is beacause of culture warriors like you and Bill O'reilly who think that science is a liberal conspiracy. and really? Bill O'reilly? this should not be source for anything that you want others to take seriously



OMG, Thank You!

MSUPHL
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby MSUPHL » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:55 pm

i went to same UG as this dude (some may find the video extremely entertaining):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i5iV9Df--A

In my law school class there are 190 people. I know about lets say 80 decently well who are social (come to bar review, house parties, etc). Of these 80 I would say at least 60 would take a hit if offered, and at least 30 smoke multiple times per week and maintain somewhat of a stash.

Also, my civ pro prof used "Mary Jane" as a plaintiff in one of our Hypos and her parents were pot growers, and another plaintiffs last name was "mota" which is slang in Spanish for cannabis.

Another prof was at woodstock, my cousin guest lectures at yale LS frequently and he has used in the past... cannabis is pretty common in the legal field i would say

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:45 pm

Knock wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Then again, if the card prevents you from being arrested and prosecuted for a state crime, that's probably worth it. Tough one. I think you're best bet is to forget the card and take mre precautions if you're still going to use.


I think having a medical marijuana card (which i'm pretty certain is considered a medical record and thus private, although correct me if i'm wrong), is much, much preferred to having a misdemeanor possession charge.

I agree that a state possession charge is far worse, but habitually violating federal law certainly doesn't look good. Until the feds legalize marijuana, I would never create a document trail of any sort. Perhaps that is because of my personal bias. I think that if the states continue on their present course of action, the feds will eventually join the pissing contest, and I'm pretty sure federal law is going to trump medical use of marijuana.

I know very little about private medical information, but I do know that communications with a doctor are only privileged if they pertain to actual medical treatment. If it was ever revealed that you lied to get the medical marijuana card, then the information may not be privileged. Also, communications with an attorney are never privileged if they are in furtherance of crime. I don't know if there is a similar doctrine regarding physicians and medical information, but if you are communicating with a doctor in order to violate federal law, you might find that the information is not privileged at all. Plus, the whole idea of privilege doesn't really apply to bar admission. When the bar asks you a question pertaining to admission, you are required to answer even if the information is private. It is my understanding that the bar can even ask you about mental illnesses.

Just for the record, I am a 2L, so my comments are partially conjecture. I have not been through the C&F examination yet, and I could be off base. I'm not going to take a chance though. There is way too much money on the line for me to blow it now. Even if you think I'm completely wrong, I'd find out for sure before you make a mistake.

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invisiblesun
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby invisiblesun » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:12 am

Knock wrote:I think having a medical marijuana card (which i'm pretty certain is considered a medical record and thus private, although correct me if i'm wrong), is much, much preferred to having a misdemeanor possession charge.


I read about a guy in Washington (or Oregon, don't remember now) who was denied an organ transplant because he was an "illegal drug user" even though he used marijuana legally, with a card, to help with his fibromyalgia. He died because of the denial. Not quite as severe but still serious is the possibility of getting fired due to failing a drug test despite legal usage (which the company argues is justifiable under company policies). IMO, there are still major issues with the card system, and whereas most casual users don't get caught, obtaining a card provides hard evidence that you're a user.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:14 am

lol how this thread seems to be coming up a lot over break.. (i know there are some real issues being discussed though, among other things)..

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savagedm
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby savagedm » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:43 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Knock wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Then again, if the card prevents you from being arrested and prosecuted for a state crime, that's probably worth it. Tough one. I think you're best bet is to forget the card and take mre precautions if you're still going to use.


I think having a medical marijuana card (which i'm pretty certain is considered a medical record and thus private, although correct me if i'm wrong), is much, much preferred to having a misdemeanor possession charge.

I agree that a state possession charge is far worse, but habitually violating federal law certainly doesn't look good. Until the feds legalize marijuana, I would never create a document trail of any sort. Perhaps that is because of my personal bias. I think that if the states continue on their present course of action, the feds will eventually join the pissing contest, and I'm pretty sure federal law is going to trump medical use of marijuana.

I know very little about private medical information, but I do know that communications with a doctor are only privileged if they pertain to actual medical treatment. If it was ever revealed that you lied to get the medical marijuana card, then the information may not be privileged. Also, communications with an attorney are never privileged if they are in furtherance of crime. I don't know if there is a similar doctrine regarding physicians and medical information, but if you are communicating with a doctor in order to violate federal law, you might find that the information is not privileged at all. Plus, the whole idea of privilege doesn't really apply to bar admission. When the bar asks you a question pertaining to admission, you are required to answer even if the information is private. It is my understanding that the bar can even ask you about mental illnesses.

Just for the record, I am a 2L, so my comments are partially conjecture. I have not been through the C&F examination yet, and I could be off base. I'm not going to take a chance though. There is way too much money on the line for me to blow it now. Even if you think I'm completely wrong, I'd find out for sure before you make a mistake.


You are the logical non smoker, I.E. you don't want to chance your future. My GF used to work for a prosecutor when she was starting LS and she said that she heard of several bar applicants who got possession charges AFTER starting law school who either had a very tough time getting approved, or outright failed because they couldn't smooth talk their way out of it. People who got caught before usually get a little bit more detailed look at their past but generally have no trouble with the bar. So just a word for the wise, don't get caught doing anything stupid once you start law school.

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edgnarly
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby edgnarly » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:53 pm

I know a practicing attorney who definitely has a MMJ card in Colorado. Said attorney has been practicing for quite some time, is well respected in the community and has a successful private practice.

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:18 pm

edgnarly wrote:I know a practicing attorney who definitely has a MMJ card in Colorado. Said attorney has been practicing for quite some time, is well respected in the community and has a successful private practice.

That's a slightly different issue since he's already passed the bar. Once you're in, I don't think they hassle you unless someone files a complaint.

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D-ROCCA
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby D-ROCCA » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:28 pm

How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:58 pm

D-ROCCA wrote:How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

The C&F questionnaire asks point blank if you have ever been dependent on the use of any drug. You can certainly lie, and it's likely that no one will find out if you have no record. However, if it ever comes to light that you had a medical marijuana card, the bar will probably assume that you are dependent on the drug and that you lied about it. The bar is concerned about current addictions, so I think it's completely different from underage drinking. I'm pretty sure they want to know if you are a habitual user of an illegal drug, even though you personally don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I think the whole thing is preposterous, but I don't get to make the rules.
Last edited by JazzOne on Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby ResolutePear » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:59 pm

JazzOne wrote:but I don't get to make the rules.


Well.

Why the fuck not?

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:01 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
JazzOne wrote:but I don't get to make the rules.


Well.

Why the fuck not?

One of the reasons I wanted to go to law school was to advocate for the decriminalization of marijuana. Then I found out that there's a whole lot more money in big law.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby ResolutePear » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:03 pm

JazzOne wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
JazzOne wrote:but I don't get to make the rules.


Well.

Why the fuck not?

One of the reasons I wanted to go to law school was to advocate for the decriminalization of marijuana. Then I found out that there's a whole lot more money in big law.


That's my case.. except 'internet piracy' was my thing.

I couldn't care less - I need to make money.

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Knock
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby Knock » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:18 pm

JazzOne wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

The C&F questionnaire asks point blank if you have ever been dependent on the use of any drug. You can certainly lie, and it's likely that no one will find out if you have no record. However, if it ever comes to light that you had a medical marijuana card, the bar will probably assume that you are dependent on the drug and that you lied about it. The bar is concerned about current addictions, so I think it's completely different from underage drinking. I'm pretty sure they want to know if you are a habitual user of an illegal drug, even though you personally don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I think the whole thing is preposterous, but I don't get to make the rules.


Just because you have a medical marijuana card doesn't mean you are dependent on the drug? Maybe you just needed it for the occasional back pain or insomnia or something.

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:33 pm

Knock wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

The C&F questionnaire asks point blank if you have ever been dependent on the use of any drug. You can certainly lie, and it's likely that no one will find out if you have no record. However, if it ever comes to light that you had a medical marijuana card, the bar will probably assume that you are dependent on the drug and that you lied about it. The bar is concerned about current addictions, so I think it's completely different from underage drinking. I'm pretty sure they want to know if you are a habitual user of an illegal drug, even though you personally don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I think the whole thing is preposterous, but I don't get to make the rules.


Just because you have a medical marijuana card doesn't mean you are dependent on the drug? Maybe you just needed it for the occasional back pain or insomnia or something.

Exactly. You "needed it." You and I probably agree on what the policy should be. However, I would bet that the bar examiners see it a little bit differently.

Baylan
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby Baylan » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:41 pm

I don't know about other schools, but during my 1L orientation they had someone from the C&F of the State Bar come in and talk to us. Think Grandma. And think Grandma who has never cursed reviewing your application and gets to make the decision about how much hassle you're going to have to deal with.

MSUPHL
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby MSUPHL » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:20 pm

Baylan wrote:I don't know about other schools, but during my 1L orientation they had someone from the C&F of the State Bar come in and talk to us. Think Grandma. And think Grandma who has never cursed reviewing your application and gets to make the decision about how much hassle you're going to have to deal with.


my grandma has smoked cannabis. And my aunts. And my Uncles. And my Parents. And my cousins. etc...and all have had a traditional succesful life (father MD, etc...)

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D-ROCCA
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby D-ROCCA » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:57 am

JazzOne wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

The C&F questionnaire asks point blank if you have ever been dependent on the use of any drug. You can certainly lie, and it's likely that no one will find out if you have no record. However, if it ever comes to light that you had a medical marijuana card, the bar will probably assume that you are dependent on the drug and that you lied about it. The bar is concerned about current addictions, so I think it's completely different from underage drinking. I'm pretty sure they want to know if you are a habitual user of an illegal drug, even though you personally don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I think the whole thing is preposterous, but I don't get to make the rules.


Interesting, thanks for the info. Sorry for the mini thread-jack.

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:26 am

D-ROCCA wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

The C&F questionnaire asks point blank if you have ever been dependent on the use of any drug. You can certainly lie, and it's likely that no one will find out if you have no record. However, if it ever comes to light that you had a medical marijuana card, the bar will probably assume that you are dependent on the drug and that you lied about it. The bar is concerned about current addictions, so I think it's completely different from underage drinking. I'm pretty sure they want to know if you are a habitual user of an illegal drug, even though you personally don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I think the whole thing is preposterous, but I don't get to make the rules.


Interesting, thanks for the info. Sorry for the mini thread-jack.

Sure, no problem. I'm just sharing my concerns. I had no idea the C&F examination was such a big deal until I took Professional Responsibility last semester. Your bar entrance can even be jeopardized by past financial problems. There is a form you have to fill out in Texas before you take the bar. I think it's called an "intent to practice law" or something like that. The form ask for a lot of personal information, like all your addresses for the past decade or so and all your employers. I think they send a letter to all your previous employers and ask them if there is any reason you are not fit to practice law.

There are a few smokers at my school, but they keep it very low key. The ABA Model Rules require lawyers to rat on each other for ethics violations. Let's just say that if I was a smoker, I wouldn't want very many of my classmates to know about it.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:48 am

JazzOne wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:How often would drug use come up in C & F if you have never been charged/suspected/convicted? I can't imagine too often, but I know nothing. Seems like a total waste of time though-akin to asking about underage drinking...

The C&F questionnaire asks point blank if you have ever been dependent on the use of any drug. You can certainly lie, and it's likely that no one will find out if you have no record. However, if it ever comes to light that you had a medical marijuana card, the bar will probably assume that you are dependent on the drug and that you lied about it. The bar is concerned about current addictions, so I think it's completely different from underage drinking. I'm pretty sure they want to know if you are a habitual user of an illegal drug, even though you personally don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I think the whole thing is preposterous, but I don't get to make the rules.


Interesting, thanks for the info. Sorry for the mini thread-jack.

Sure, no problem. I'm just sharing my concerns. I had no idea the C&F examination was such a big deal until I took Professional Responsibility last semester. Your bar entrance can even be jeopardized by past financial problems. There is a form you have to fill out in Texas before you take the bar. I think it's called an "intent to practice law" or something like that. The form ask for a lot of personal information, like all your addresses for the past decade or so and all your employers. I think they send a letter to all your previous employers and ask them if there is any reason you are not fit to practice law.

There are a few smokers at my school, but they keep it very low key. The ABA Model Rules require lawyers to rat on each other for ethics violations. Let's just say that if I was a smoker, I wouldn't want very many of my classmates to know about it.


Of course not. Why wouldn't I as a lawyer knock off another lawyer in my market?

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:56 am

ResolutePear wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
JazzOne wrote:but I don't get to make the rules.


Well.

Why the fuck not?

One of the reasons I wanted to go to law school was to advocate for the decriminalization of marijuana. Then I found out that there's a whole lot more money in big law.


That's my case.. except 'internet piracy' was my thing.

I couldn't care less - I need to make money.

So, you are sympathetic to internet pirates? I'm not making any judgment with that question. I'm truly curious. I took Intellectual Property last semester, and I'm interested to know why you care so much about internet piracy. Or is it that you think copyrights should be enforced more aggressively?

I came away from the IP class thinking that monopoly rights actually decrease creativity and invention. My basis for that belief is that fashion (as in clothing) cannot be protected by intellectual property rights. Knock offs can show up within hours after a new design is released. This seems to have actually increased creativity within the profession because fashion designers have to continually create to remain profitable.

At any rate, the course I took was a one-semester survey of copyright, patent law, and trademark. I'm sure I still have much to learn.

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savagedm
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby savagedm » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:39 pm

C & F is a beast, they basically want documentation for your entire life from the past decade. It's gonna be a pain in the arse to produce all that documentation :(

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JazzOne
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby JazzOne » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:47 pm

ResolutePear wrote:Of course not. Why wouldn't I as a lawyer knock off another lawyer in my market?

Although I wouldn't put it past one of my classmates to do that, I wouldn't go out of my way to knock off my competition. The legal community is a small, small world, and you could find yourself blackballed if you develop a reputation as an angle shooter. I know of a guy in my hometown who posted some derogatory comments about a local firm, and he basically can't get a job in the city because his identity was outed on the forum.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:47 pm

JazzOne wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:One of the reasons I wanted to go to law school was to advocate for the decriminalization of marijuana. Then I found out that there's a whole lot more money in big law.


That's my case.. except 'internet piracy' was my thing.

I couldn't care less - I need to make money.

So, you are sympathetic to internet pirates? I'm not making any judgment with that question. I'm truly curious. I took Intellectual Property last semester, and I'm interested to know why you care so much about internet piracy. Or is it that you think copyrights should be enforced more aggressively?

I came away from the IP class thinking that monopoly rights actually decrease creativity and invention. My basis for that belief is that fashion (as in clothing) cannot be protected by intellectual property rights. Knock offs can show up within hours after a new design is released. This seems to have actually increased creativity within the profession because fashion designers have to continually create to remain profitable.
search.php?search_id=egosearch
At any rate, the course I took was a one-semester survey of copyright, patent law, and trademark. I'm sure I still have much to learn.


Hey, I haven't taken those courses.

I just see that having a technical background can benefit the court in general when arguing how certain technologies work and when using them is a breach of copyright. Do I have sympathy for the pirates? Well, I honestly don't think it's reasonable to impose a judgement on somebody equivalent to their entire potential life earnings. Were they in the wrong? Yes-

So, it's a pretty complicated issue generally.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Pot smokers in law school

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:49 pm

JazzOne wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:Of course not. Why wouldn't I as a lawyer knock off another lawyer in my market?

Although I wouldn't put it past one of my classmates to do that, I wouldn't go out of my way to knock off my competition. The legal community is a small, small world, and you could find yourself blackballed if you develop a reputation as an angle shooter. I know of a guy in my hometown who posted some derogatory comments about a local firm, and he basically can't get a job in the city because his identity was outed on the forum.


When you report a character violation to the bar, isn't it anonymous?

But yes, in any industry it'd be wise to steer away from talking negatively about their 'bread-and-butter.'




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