Laptop Banned

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jay115
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby jay115 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:01 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
Neverknowsbest wrote:So apparently I got put with the professors that do not allow laptops. After I was told I had to have one, bought a new one, and a nice new laptop bag to carry it around in. Are there any people out there who don't use laptops who might lend some advice?


This might actually be a good thing. I have 2 professors that "discourage" the use of laptops. As much as I want to put mine away, I feel compelled to leave it out simply because others are doing so. I would be happy of laptops were outright banned during class.


What a stupid reason (with all due respect intended). You don't have the self-discipline or self-motivation further your learning career, so you want to hoist it upon others? That's crap. Just put your laptop in your bag. This isn't high school and you don't have to mimic what Regina George does or wears to class.

Connelly wrote:
wiseowl wrote:1.) in short yes. for the amount of money we pay we should be able to do whatever the hell we want in class as long as it isn't disruptive, period.


Have you ever taught a class? Teaching to a bunch of drones gchatting it up is not productive for anyone - including the drones. You still seem to see this issue as an "us vs. them, we know our rights" situation, and not it's not about that at all. It's about providing the best learning environment for students, not about what you should be allowed to get away with. Sadly, many professors do not even get that, so you are not alone. Note that you can choose to pay to go to school somewhere else if you would like as well. Paying at a very expensive restaurant does not give me the right to demand ketchup with my steak. All that invested in a school, all that trust in how they are training you, and you think you know better than the professor. Amazing.


Seriously? If I'm dropping mad cash for food I'm gonna demand whateverthefuck I want, and I think most restaurants would be willing to oblige so long as they get your money - you've clearly never worked in a customer service-type job before. I think you're argument is confused; it's not that students can't demand to use their laptops, but rather that schools do not have an obligation to acquiesce to such a demand.

And I think law schools would be successful in rejecting demands. Unlike the restaurant that would probably go bankrupt if it ignored customer's requests, law schools thrive on reputation and other factors independent of student demands, thus making them less reliant on them.

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jayn3
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby jayn3 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:18 pm

leftofthedial wrote:Does no one get annoyed/distracted by the constant clicking of the keyboard? I sat in on a class, and at first I thought, "Cool. Technology." But then the noise just became incredibly grating...



people make noise no matter what, be it writing/chewing gum/tapping pencils/whatever. anyway, since most schools require that you take your exam on a laptop, you may as well get used to it.

that being said, personally i'm all for taking notes by hand. i know i pay better attention to the class that way. but if someone wants to facebook through a lecture, their loss....

Connelly
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Connelly » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:45 pm

jay115 wrote:
Seriously? If I'm dropping mad cash for food I'm gonna demand whateverthefuck I want, and I think most restaurants would be willing to oblige so long as they get your money - you've clearly never worked in a customer service-type job before. I think you're argument is confused; it's not that students can't demand to use their laptops, but rather that schools do not have an obligation to acquiesce to such a demand.

And I think law schools would be successful in rejecting demands. Unlike the restaurant that would probably go bankrupt if it ignored customer's requests, law schools thrive on reputation and other factors independent of student demands, thus making them less reliant on them.


By "restaurant," I do not mean Burger King, where you can always have it your way. Eating at a high-end restaurant (and by that, I do not mean Olive Garden) and asking the chef to completely change items on the menu that the chef (i.e. the expert) has put together is self-defeating (and possibly rude). "Forget that demi-glace you spent hours making and years learning how to make and gimme some damn ketchup." No need to drop $300 on a meal if you really just want something you can get at Harry's Rib Shack. Think Cousin Eddy from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation at Peter Luger. Now compare that to, "I'm going to pay $40k a year to go to this fancy-schmancy ivy school, but I'll be damned if those professors know anything about teaching us the law."

I think technology should be leveraged in the classroom and not used as a scapegoat for poor teachers, but some people act like their woobie is being taken away with a ban on laptops. Considering the years spent without computers in the classroom, I think everything will be okay, although it is disheartening to not see technological advances embraced. I would encourage the use of clickers and other technology, even for professors I found to be excellent.

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kimber1028
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby kimber1028 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:47 pm

Dammit, I just found out I'm in the no laptop club as well. My Con Law professor just emailed us to say that laptops aren't allowed in his classroom... awesome. I am so much more efficient with One Note!

Snooker
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Snooker » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:08 pm

@Connelly

The problem with students choosing schools for good teaching qualities is that the places where teaching is emphasized at all tend to be the crappiest TTT schools out there. The exception, I think, is UC-Irvine because the administration from the get-go was really serious about education. If you go to one of these schools, you will be 120k in debt and everyone will think you are a moron law graduate. Going to a top 20 school, people at least take you seriously. This is one problem for the legal education system, i.e. the premium legal services sector currently sells resumes, not services.

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jay115
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby jay115 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:56 pm

Connelly wrote:
jay115 wrote:
Seriously? If I'm dropping mad cash for food I'm gonna demand whateverthefuck I want, and I think most restaurants would be willing to oblige so long as they get your money - you've clearly never worked in a customer service-type job before. I think you're argument is confused; it's not that students can't demand to use their laptops, but rather that schools do not have an obligation to acquiesce to such a demand.

And I think law schools would be successful in rejecting demands. Unlike the restaurant that would probably go bankrupt if it ignored customer's requests, law schools thrive on reputation and other factors independent of student demands, thus making them less reliant on them.


By "restaurant," I do not mean Burger King, where you can always have it your way. Eating at a high-end restaurant (and by that, I do not mean Olive Garden) and asking the chef to completely change items on the menu that the chef (i.e. the expert) has put together is self-defeating (and possibly rude). "Forget that demi-glace you spent hours making and years learning how to make and gimme some damn ketchup." No need to drop $300 on a meal if you really just want something you can get at Harry's Rib Shack. Think Cousin Eddy from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation at Peter Luger. Now compare that to, "I'm going to pay $40k a year to go to this fancy-schmancy ivy school, but I'll be damned if those professors know anything about teaching us the law."

I think technology should be leveraged in the classroom and not used as a scapegoat for poor teachers, but some people act like their woobie is being taken away with a ban on laptops. Considering the years spent without computers in the classroom, I think everything will be okay, although it is disheartening to not see technological advances embraced. I would encourage the use of clickers and other technology, even for professors I found to be excellent.


Your explanation, whether burger king or a high-end steak house, is still flawed. The point is that your paying 50k a year to attend law school - which makes you a consumer and the law school the producer. Like I said previously law schools have more leverage over their student consumers than restaurants over customers. Just because I choose to "drop $300 on a meal" even if could "just ...get [some food product] at Harry's Rib Shack" doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to drop $300 on a steak if I wanted to. Like most paternalists, I think you're overlooking the oh-so important virtue of choice and the idea that people learn differently - different strokes, different folks. By the way, you must eat at some interesting high-end restaurants in which their policy is "their way or the highway." Eat what you want in a consumer-driven business? What a novel concept!

Also, lack of technology as a scapegoat for possibly bad professors is a red herring. The argument is that students should be given a choice on whether to use their laptops to take in-class notes because some students are able to maximize their learning potential using laptops. Regardless of the teacher's teaching abilities.

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2010law
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby 2010law » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:44 pm

Maybe it's just me, but banning laptops because some students are using them to screw around in class is nonsense.
If the same professor caught a student doodling, would notebooks and writing implements be banned as well ?

Ignatius J. Reilly
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Ignatius J. Reilly » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:49 pm

Maybe it was the college I went to for undergraduate, but I never once saw anyone with a laptop in class. I didn't even know it was common in law school until my first class when everyone started whipping out their laptops. Maybe I am just oblivious, but I was so confused. I actually thought it was a good idea for case briefs, so I started typing my briefs and using my laptop for that purpose only. So although I would use a laptop in class, it would only be for my briefs in case I was called on. Now, as a 2L, we don't really get cold called so I don't brief much, which means I hardly ever use a laptop in class. I don't know how I feel about a professor banning laptops, because to me that should be the individual student's choice. However, if one of my 1L professors did ban laptops, it wouldn't have bothered me one bit as I would have just printed out my case briefs (which I did see some people doing anyway).




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