Laptop Banned

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AJaKe
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby AJaKe » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:39 am

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Last edited by AJaKe on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wiseowl
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby wiseowl » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:06 pm

Bump for 3 out of 4 classes this semester being no-laptop.

Glad to see I'll be wasting time transcribing notes and putting together outlines by hand that I could have been using taking practice tests or *gah* relaxing.

What's next, worksheets?

VincentChase
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby VincentChase » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:12 pm

Take really good reading notes from your cases and discussion notes every day, print them out before class, and then just take notes on the hard copy to fill in the gaps. In most classes, you should just be filling in some gaps during class anyway. Most of your notes will be taken outside of class. Class is where you get points clarified or learn what the professor emphasizes.

Then after class go into your laptop file and just add in the notes you took by hand on your hard copies.

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wiseowl
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby wiseowl » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:15 pm

VincentChase wrote:Take really good reading notes from your cases and discussion notes every day, print them out before class, and then just take notes on the hard copy to fill in the gaps. In most classes, you should just be filling in some gaps during class anyway. Most of your notes will be taken outside of class. Class is where you get points clarified or learn what the professor emphasizes.

Then after class go into your laptop file and just add in the notes you took by hand on your hard copies.


this is now what I have no choice but to do, but I hate it.

I am convinced I did worse in my one no-laptop class in the fall than any other, and pretty much for that reason. My handwriting is illegible and i spent way too much time squinting to figure out what i could possibly have meant.

Once writing assignments and outlining came due, transcribing notes took a back seat and it probably cost me.

I know I'm a crybaby but this is just asinine.

VincentChase
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby VincentChase » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:18 pm

wiseowl wrote:
VincentChase wrote:Take really good reading notes from your cases and discussion notes every day, print them out before class, and then just take notes on the hard copy to fill in the gaps. In most classes, you should just be filling in some gaps during class anyway. Most of your notes will be taken outside of class. Class is where you get points clarified or learn what the professor emphasizes.

Then after class go into your laptop file and just add in the notes you took by hand on your hard copies.


this is now what I have no choice but to do, but I hate it.

I am convinced I did worse in my one no-laptop class in the fall than any other, and pretty much for that reason. My handwriting is illegible and i spent way too much time squinting to figure out what i could possibly have meant.

Once writing assignments and outlining came due, transcribing notes took a back seat and it probably cost me.

I know I'm a crybaby but this is just asinine.


I agree it's a pain, but I see both sides. If I was a professor, it would be so distracting to hear G-chat gunfire going off all the time, or constantly hearing, "Can you repeat the question?" That latter situation is probably what leads to the bans, because it affects other students' time.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:21 pm

Learn to not have shitty handwriting?

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wiseowl
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby wiseowl » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:23 pm

Lxw wrote:Learn to not have shitty handwriting?


too late. i was groomed to be a doctor as a child :)

its genetic. my parents might as well be writing Cyrillic

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lawgirl99
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby lawgirl99 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:25 pm

nativedelta wrote:I hate this argument about banning laptops because some people use them for non-class activities. Why does the diligent student who just takes better notes get penalized for this class of slackers? Why do I have to lower myself to the least common denominator to make sure that jackass pays attention in class?

Honestly, if you'd like to spend $200 worth of class time surfing the web and not paying attention to the professor, so much the better! That's one less person I have to compete against. If he is called on and is unprepared, he'll suffer the embarrassment, not me.

I am an adult, and I should be allowed to choose what system of note-taking works best for me--not have it dictated to me based on the internet surfing slackers in class.

Why must everything these days be a paternalistic state?

Hence the reason I am thrilled with my new law school where every professor allows laptops.



+1 I completely agree

Snooker
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Snooker » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:58 pm

I agree with much of what Delta has to say, but I'm not so sure about putting value on class time. Academics tend to put only a small part of their efforts towards class time. If you pay $45,000 in tuition, they probably only spend $10,000 on you.

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im_blue
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby im_blue » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:57 pm

JMD.USMC wrote:I had read that Law School students are the biggest whiners of all grad students, but until I started school last week and have been reading some of these threads I didn't really believe it.

I for one support professors banning laptops in class. After sitting near the back of the classroom on the first day of class and seeing people checking their facebook, chatting on IM, etc. I realized why they would do that.
Are you all that disrespectful and lazy that you can't use an ounce of discipline to pay attention and not surf the net during class?
I use my laptop constantly while studying to write briefs and between class to check TWEN etc. But there is no reason anyone needs to use a laptop in class.

Do it the way lawyers and students have done it for hundreds of years before you. Pen and paper.

A question for some of you younger folks,
Did you use laptops during undergrad?
I never had a computer in undergrad and did all my work by hand, then when it came time to type papers I took all my handwritten stuff to the computer lab.


Lots of people type much faster than they write, which allows more time to absorb the lecture. Just because pen and paper were used by hundreds of years before does not make it the superior choice. I suppose you don't use cell phones or e-mail either.

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one&only
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby one&only » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:02 pm

Tape the classes

Snooker
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Snooker » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:50 pm

laptop bans are retarded. This is what happens when you let a bunch of aging academics who have no connection to the real world run things. If these people ran the legal system, I can just imagine everything going down in flames, seriously.

VincentChase
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby VincentChase » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:53 pm

Snooker wrote:laptop bans are retarded. This is what happens when you let a bunch of aging academics who have no connection to the real world run things.


Or what happens when a bunch of students with limited attention spans can't help but G-chat the whole time.

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Eruannon
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Eruannon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:56 pm

VincentChase wrote:
Snooker wrote:laptop bans are retarded. This is what happens when you let a bunch of aging academics who have no connection to the real world run things.


Or what happens when a bunch of students with limited attention spans can't help but G-chat the whole time.


So is G-chat the new thing in law school? A 0L learns something new.

VincentChase
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby VincentChase » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:59 pm

Eruannon wrote:
VincentChase wrote:
Snooker wrote:laptop bans are retarded. This is what happens when you let a bunch of aging academics who have no connection to the real world run things.


Or what happens when a bunch of students with limited attention spans can't help but G-chat the whole time.


So is G-chat the new thing in law school? A 0L learns something new.


It's just instant messaging through Gmail. Like I said earlier, you can't say that it doesn't affect other students when every other question asked during a Socratic discussion is answered, "Can you repeat the question?"

I can see where students are frustrated. I'm frustrated by bans. But I can see where professors would say, "You can't handle the privilege? Then fine. Write your notes."

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Pizon
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Pizon » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:48 am

I've always heard it was to discourage students from trying to transcribe everything the professor says and pay more attention to the class discussion. Haven't heard a professor justify the ban because students use them for personal reasons.

Esc
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Esc » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:30 pm

After spending my first semester with laptops verboten in all but Legal Research and Writing, I can wholeheartedly agree that the laptop ban is a good idea. Laptops make distractions too easy and detract from class participation. If, as Snooker said, the professors are spending only $10,000 of your money on the in-class efforts, then I would like that $10,000 to be worth something. Personally, I plan on handwriting notes for the rest of LS.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:31 pm

Esc wrote:After spending my first semester with laptops verboten in all but Legal Research and Writing, I can wholeheartedly agree that the laptop ban is a good idea. Laptops make distractions too easy and detract from class participation. If, as Snooker said, the professors are spending only $10,000 of your money on the in-class efforts, then I would like that $10,000 to be worth something. Personally, I plan on handwriting notes for the rest of LS.

ditts

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apper123
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby apper123 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:13 pm

Esc wrote:After spending my first semester with laptops verboten in all but Legal Research and Writing, I can wholeheartedly agree that the laptop ban is a good idea. Laptops make distractions too easy and detract from class participation. If, as Snooker said, the professors are spending only $10,000 of your money on the in-class efforts, then I would like that $10,000 to be worth something. Personally, I plan on handwriting notes for the rest of LS.


I actually changed my elective today based on a laptop ban. Well that and I was borderline on taking the course anyways. IT pushed me over the edge.

I have no handwriting skills. None. Zero. I would probably be below median in handwriting in a class full of 5th graders.

I type super fast though!

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Dick Whitman
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Dick Whitman » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:38 pm

apper123 wrote:
Esc wrote:After spending my first semester with laptops verboten in all but Legal Research and Writing, I can wholeheartedly agree that the laptop ban is a good idea. Laptops make distractions too easy and detract from class participation. If, as Snooker said, the professors are spending only $10,000 of your money on the in-class efforts, then I would like that $10,000 to be worth something. Personally, I plan on handwriting notes for the rest of LS.


I actually changed my elective today based on a laptop ban. Well that and I was borderline on taking the course anyways. IT pushed me over the edge.

I have no handwriting skills. None. Zero. I would probably be below median in handwriting in a class full of 5th graders.

I type super fast though!


I'm not keen on throwing away the greatest advance in human productivity since sliced bread just because I have a law professor that buys robot-attack insurance.

Connelly
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Connelly » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:55 am


BattlingBarrister
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby BattlingBarrister » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:39 pm

I don't bring a laptop to class and I don't really see a problem in the large classes if people are playing with themselves on facebook rather than paying attention. Thats their problem.

Laptops do take away from smaller, discussion oriented classes. Its kind of hard to lead a group discussion when half the group is staring glaze-faced into their computer.

I quit going to a study group early on because one girl would just facebook the whole time then occasionally demand to copy my notes and ask questions the rest of the group had already discussed. Then again, it seems like regardless if there are laptops involved there is always one person freeloading off the rest of the group (take away > contribution).

leftofthedial
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby leftofthedial » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:46 pm

Does no one get annoyed/distracted by the constant clicking of the keyboard? I sat in on a class, and at first I thought, "Cool. Technology." But then the noise just became incredibly grating...

Snooker
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Snooker » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:01 pm

Esc wrote:After spending my first semester with laptops verboten in all but Legal Research and Writing, I can wholeheartedly agree that the laptop ban is a good idea. Laptops make distractions too easy and detract from class participation. If, as Snooker said, the professors are spending only $10,000 of your money on the in-class efforts, then I would like that $10,000 to be worth something. Personally, I plan on handwriting notes for the rest of LS.


My laptop was open to my notes the whole time. I never browsed on the internet. The guy next to me didn't use a laptop, but he just drew pictures all day while the professor lectured about shit. In general people I say using laptops were taking notes. It was only when the professor started wasting class time that people started zoning out. Even in laptop-banned classes, people were texting, playing games in the back, chatting, or even falling asleep. For me, a laptop computer means I can link lecture notes to cases and statutes, have them organized perfectly, and all searchable in case I need to check particular information. I can back everything up, so I won't be one of those students who loses notes.

Most importantly, if something important needs to be taken down, I can jam it down in 15 seconds (130wpm), and I won't miss anything. My notes tend to be brief, maybe a page or less per class hour, probably around what a hand-writer will produce. But since I spend less time writing stuff down, my comprehension goes up. (writing interferes with listening comprehension)

Maybe law schools should start weeding out students who can't focus on an important topic for an hour without browsing the internet for boredom, instead of simply banning laptops for everyone, including students who make the effort (i.e. most students). A lawyer or judge who browses the 'net in the middle of a trial - we heard this one from our professor - will be doing a great disservice to all those involved. Force an ADD kid to sit through a law lecture, and he's still going to become an ADD lawyer. Law schools should really consider why, if they are recruiting the best and the brightest, these people are falling asleep and tuning out at such a high rate.

The Maule blog seems to agree:
"If, knowing the value of classroom focus, a student chooses to play games or surf the Internet on his or her computer, that student is being foolish and deserves the consequences."

Connelly
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Re: Laptop Banned

Postby Connelly » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:27 pm

Proper incentives are not in place to correct the issue. Professors have little to no reason (depending on their status at the school in question) to provide engaging lectures. Student evaluations aren't exactly what law school administrators put at the top of their list when choosing and retaining professors.

In a year and a half of law school, I haven't seen one professor get observed in the classroom. When I taught in the past, observations were extremely valuable, as you could always pick up something that would help you become excellent in the future. Most professors are very bright people who expect to be good at what they do, because they have succeeded most of their lives, so even the ones that actually care may assume that their method has no fault.

Students (the customers) could shape this, but the teaching ability of professors is usually way down on the list of priorities when choosing a school. I haven't seen too many threads on here that have students saying, "I'm going to School X over School Y despite X's lower USNWR rankings because there are more engaging professors at School X." We don't care, the administrators don't care, and we all get what we value.

I have two professors this semester that allow laptops but have, in their syllabi, threatened to reduce final grades based on improper computer usage, specifically targeting Facebook, Gchat, etc. This is more fair than a laptop ban, but still not perfect. I would rather see professors and students both attempt to value and enrich their classroom time more.




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