all-nighters at the firm?

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reasonable_man
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby reasonable_man » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:40 pm

Thats true... hadn't thought of that... I really wish this motion would cooperate and write itself...

billbob
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby billbob » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:29 pm

js87 wrote:I truly don't understand why anyone would want to live that type of life, even for $200,000 a year... Growing fat and pale while your wife cheats on you. But at least you'd have lots of money (that you won't have time to spend).

Here is a nice summary of why:

We worked at Wachtell Lipton for two and a half years, from 2000 to 2003, and we recommend it highly. It's a great place to work whether you want to make a career out of Biglaw or want to move on after a few years.

Here's a synopsis of our WLRK experience. We worked with some brilliant people, some of whom remain good friends to this day, on some phenomenal cases; learned a lot and got a ton of experience (e.g., depositions, a trial, appellate briefs), despite being so junior; and did very well for ourselves financially. This allowed us to move to the U.S. Attorney's Office, and then into blogging and freelance writing, without downsizing our lifestyle. So if you plan on spending only a few years in Biglaw, you might as well get the most out of them, in terms of both money and lawyering experience.

If you want to make a career out of large firm practice, the appeal of Wachtell is obvious. Yes, the associates (and partners) at Wachtell work harder than most. But they're working on interesting, cutting-edge, headline-making cases and deals. And as you can see from the firm's associate bonuses, as well as its profits-per-partner, the rewards for the marginal effort are outsized. For associates, a few hundred additional billable hours can add six figures to your paycheck. For partners, those extra hours can add seven figures to your annual partnership draw.


--LinkRemoved--

You work your ass off at big law because you learn how to be a lawyer, get great experience, and repay your law school loans. after that you can go be an AUSA or in-house counsel.

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crazycanuck
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby crazycanuck » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:21 pm

You would also make some wicked networks at WLRK... but you need to get hired by them first.

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pleasetryagain
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby pleasetryagain » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:40 pm

reasonable_man wrote:Thats true... hadn't thought of that... I really wish this motion would cooperate and write itself...


dont suppose you could discuss what you are working on? in vagaries?

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Always Credited
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby Always Credited » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:57 pm

js87 wrote:I truly don't understand why anyone would want to live that type of life, even for $200,000 a year... Growing fat and pale while your wife cheats on you. But at least you'd have lots of money (that you won't have time to spend).



Don't marry a gold-digging whore, and you won't have a problem.

SethD2767
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby SethD2767 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:53 pm

js87 wrote:I truly don't understand why anyone would want to live that type of life, even for $200,000 a year... Growing fat and pale while your wife cheats on you. But at least you'd have lots of money (that you won't have time to spend).


"Damned Beaver/Jeremy is the War, he is every assertion the fucking War has ever made--that we are meant for work and government, for austerity; and these shall take priority over love, dreams, the spirit, the senses and the other second-class trivia that are found among the idle and mindless hours of the day...Damn them, they are wrong. They are insane. Jeremy will take her like the Angel itself, in his joyless weasel-worded come-along, and Roger will be forgotten, an amusing maniac, but with no place in the rationalized power ritual that will be the coming peace. She will take her husband's orders, she will become a domestic bureaucrat, a junior partner, and remember Roger, if at all, as a mistake thank god she didn't make..."

SethD2767
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby SethD2767 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:15 pm

So, what jobs in the legal field can be gotten with a law degree that involve working no more than 9-5, mon-fri, and that afford one a decent income (80k-100k)?

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pleasetryagain
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby pleasetryagain » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:28 pm

SethD2767 wrote:So, what jobs in the legal field can be gotten with a law degree that involve working no more than 9-5, mon-fri, and that afford one a decent income (80k-100k)?


as a previous poster stated.. youd be hard pressed to find these jobs with or without a JD

SethD2767
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby SethD2767 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:06 pm

DCD wrote:
SethD2767 wrote:So, what jobs in the legal field can be gotten with a law degree that involve working no more than 9-5, mon-fri, and that afford one a decent income (80k-100k)?


as a previous poster stated.. youd be hard pressed to find these jobs with or without a JD


What about the JAG? Don't they make about 80k? And, aren't their hours less?

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pleasetryagain
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby pleasetryagain » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:07 pm

cant imagine a JAG position is easy to come by..

billbob
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby billbob » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:49 pm

DCD wrote:
SethD2767 wrote:So, what jobs in the legal field can be gotten with a law degree that involve working no more than 9-5, mon-fri, and that afford one a decent income (80k-100k)?


as a previous poster stated.. youd be hard pressed to find these jobs with or without a JD


They exist, but not straight out of law school. In house counsel and state agencies/federal agencies pay that much and have 40 hour weeks (with some exceptions), but you need experience to get those jobs or work your way up to those salaries. So you can either go a law firm and work the hours or go to a DA's office and not make big bucks. You cannot expect to be handed a job that pays 80k with easy hours just because you have a JD.

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James Bond
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby James Bond » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:01 pm

Always Credited wrote:
js87 wrote:I truly don't understand why anyone would want to live that type of life, even for $200,000 a year... Growing fat and pale while your wife cheats on you. But at least you'd have lots of money (that you won't have time to spend).



Don't marry a gold-digging whore, and you won't have a problem.


Even if she loves you, the fact that you're gone 80-100 hours a week is inevitably going to strain the marriage. She's going to seek companionship.

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James Bond
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby James Bond » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:02 pm

DCD wrote:cant imagine a JAG position is easy to come by..


plus you're in the military

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philip.platt
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby philip.platt » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:13 pm

biv0ns wrote:
Always Credited wrote:
js87 wrote:I truly don't understand why anyone would want to live that type of life, even for $200,000 a year... Growing fat and pale while your wife cheats on you. But at least you'd have lots of money (that you won't have time to spend).



Don't marry a gold-digging whore, and you won't have a problem.


Even if she loves you, the fact that you're gone 80-100 hours a week is inevitably going to strain the marriage. She's going to seek companionship.


If the wives (our future wives) are super ambitious as well . . . it won't be as much of a problem.

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rayiner
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:18 pm

chocolatechip wrote: Does that mean they are just working really late (like till midnight or so?) Or does it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? :o/


LOL.

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:12 pm

chocolatechip wrote:
redsox8105 wrote:I once asked a partner at a DC BigLaw firm if they really pull all-nighters like I'd heard. He assured me that every now and then (when they go to trial) they'll either rent out a floor at a hotel or sleep in the office on a cot or a couch, but there would never be a case where you work all through the night and the next day. It's not so much a matter of health (that matters some), but rather that they don't want you doing horrible work during really important times.

Basically, yes firms will work you to the ground, but never so much that it starts to seriously affect your work, because that's really bad for them.


I am also concerned about ending up at a firm and making some horrible mistakes on an important project because I have no time to sleep. Working late nights and weekends is less of an issue for me... but a frequent all-nighter thing might be a problem. Which DC firm did you hear this from, by the way?


I wouldn't be too concerned about this issue. In my last job (not law), we were working 9 AM - 1 AM virtually every day with many nights at the office (on average, about twice a week). While this schedule would be terrible for family life, it's not bad at all if you're young and working with a group of people who very much want to be doing what they're doing. In fact, we all had great fun, and I really miss the job :-(

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adamquigley9
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby adamquigley9 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:06 pm

Boyk1182 wrote:I wouldn't worry about all this stuff... you'll get used to it, whatever the case may be. I don't think it's really as bad as people tend to think anyways.

For example, the Marines is thought of as pretty hardcore by the average person, right? Well I did it for 4 years, and did a lot while I was in, and it's really not hard at all, of course after getting used to it... I've gone days without sleep, it's not deadly.


I was only in Basic Training for 3 weeks (broken foot) but this is true...some of the DI's were up for 3 days straight while they were in Iraq/Afghanistan...they told us to think of time as linear, instead of cyclical...you'd be surprised how easy it is to stay up for 48 hours straight and still be able to maintain your focus :)

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stratocophic
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:23 pm

All-nighters, eh? Looks like at least one lesson from engineering will be useful. Dear hiring parters: I pwn a.m. hours. Going to be rough making the transition to working during the day.

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x

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:29 pm

x
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jayn3
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby jayn3 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:38 pm

chocolatechip wrote:darn.. part of me was really hoping an "all-nighter" was just staying up really late... but sleeping for just a couple hours? I would need serious drugs for that. I don't think I'm functional on less than 4-5 hours..

facetime >>>>>> functionality in far too many businesses. i imagine this extends to biglaw as well.

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fixer
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby fixer » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:48 am

My wife is in her 6th or 7th year as a " big law" (I hate that term) corporate/M&A/securities attorney (JD/MBA). All nighters (around the clock) certainly do happen. Sometimes more than one day in a row. She sometimes showers at the gym in the building, sometimes she comes home to change clothes and shower. We live very close to the office and have a child. It is not an easy life.

nimhnimh
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby nimhnimh » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:07 am

fixer wrote:My wife is in her 6th or 7th year as a " big law" (I hate that term) corporate/M&A/securities attorney (JD/MBA). All nighters (around the clock) certainly do happen. Sometimes more than one day in a row. She sometimes showers at the gym in the building, sometimes she comes home to change clothes and shower. We live very close to the office and have a child. It is not an easy life.
\

How was the firm with giving her maternity leave? This is always something I wondered for women in BigLaw firms.

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fixer
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby fixer » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:30 am

..
Last edited by fixer on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

motiontodismiss
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby motiontodismiss » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:47 pm

NewHere wrote:
there's a few tax lawyers that sit across the hall from me who sleep in their offices for days at a time
Interesting. The tax lawyers at the firm where I'm working this summer say that of all lawyers at the firm they have the most 'normal' hours -- that all-nighters are not unheard of, but that they are quite rare. (As opposed to, e.g., M&A lawyers who have to pull all-nighters all the time.)


I'm guessing tax lawyers have a ton of work on and around April 15th.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: all-nighters at the firm?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:53 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:Im midlaw in NY.. First Year associate.. this week...
Mon 7:30am to 7:45pm
Tues 915sm to 7pm
Wed 8:45am to 645pm
Thur 9am to 6:30pm
Fri 9am to 6:30pm (emails back and forth with firm managing partner all night and into saturday morning...)
Saturday 12:30pm to 9ish probably not sure yet...
Sunday 9am to 1pm (im going to my friend's wedding in Philly no matter what).

Total compensation 70k or so.. lots of experience though, etc..

In short, this career is not for everyone.. Make sure you want to do it. This is by far not the worst week I've had, but is pretty close to typical. This also fails to factor in the work I tend to do or at least plan out at home and the non-stop responding to the f$%%&^# blackberry


what kind of law do you do?


General Commercial litigation
Mass toxic tort
products liability
catostrophic tort defense (really bad construction accidents, high dollar commerical auto exposure)
Im also sort of the "go to" guy for federal cases of any variety


If this is the worst week you've had, then that's not too bad at all. I regularly worked significantly more in social work.




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