What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:59 am

I believe the correct way to phrase that would be, "Just so you know." I believe a comma is not only unnecessary, but completely changes the meaning that you intended.

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pany1985
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby pany1985 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:59 am

--ImageRemoved--

I just like those two pictures

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:01 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's the funniest relevant post I have ever seen on this forum.

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:06 am

Seriously though, does anyone have any legitimate speculations as to why they waitlist/reject their best applicants?

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neskerdoo
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby neskerdoo » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:19 am

Jasper12 wrote:I believe the correct way to phrase that would be, "Just so you know." I believe a comma is not only unnecessary, but completely changes the meaning that you intended.



you have got to be the stupidest person that ever lived

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:26 am

Awww...my psyche has been completely destroyed by someone who uses words such as "retarded" and "stupidest". What are you twelve? Please don't call me gay, that would really hurt my feelings.

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waytofailself
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby waytofailself » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:54 am

hombredulce wrote:I went and skimmed, but pretty much could have told you the reason without it....

Discrimination

The school is an HBCU, and many of those who were wait listed/rejected where not AA's.


I just wanted to post to point out that you're a freaking moron.

The more probable legitimate answer is yield protection. Instead, you whip out your jump to conclusions mat and make crap up. As has already been said, the previous NC Governor (and a few others) is a alum of the law school, the majority of their class is white (somewhere around 60% last I checked, still one of the most diverse law schools), and I have met plenty of good LAWYERS who went to school there and are doing just fine.

Also, if you had read a little further you would have seen that one of their major recruitment goals is to give a chance to people who normally would not get a chance to go to law school. Sure, their numbers and their glorious USNWR ranking suffer as a result because they hit some home runs and strike out with some misses. But you know what? Not every law school sits and plays the ranking game! And it's well entrenched enough in the state that those who succeed at the school can do just fine.

5x0w
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby 5x0w » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:06 am

Jasper12 wrote:Maybe, they have rejected/waitlisted: One 168, two 161s, One 160, One 162. While Accepting: Five 140-145s. I really am curious about this. I know nothing about the school, am not an applicant, yet I am strangely bothered by this. Probably because if I was one of their 160+ applicants I would definitely be pissed.


Entitlement's a bitch.

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Dick Whitman
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Dick Whitman » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:18 am

Jasper12 wrote:Maybe, they have rejected/waitlisted: One 168, two 161s, One 160, One 162. While Accepting: Five 140-145s. I really am curious about this. I know nothing about the school, am not an applicant, yet I am strangely bothered by this. Probably because if I was one of their 160+ applicants I would definitely be pissed.


I'm sure those 160+ applicants are crying themselves to sleep over not getting into NCCU as they prepare to enter UNC in the fall.

misssle
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby misssle » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:18 am

waytofailself wrote:
hombredulce wrote:I went and skimmed, but pretty much could have told you the reason without it....

Discrimination

The school is an HBCU, and many of those who were wait listed/rejected where not AA's.


I just wanted to post to point out that you're a freaking moron.

The more probable legitimate answer is yield protection. Instead, you whip out your jump to conclusions mat and make crap up. As has already been said, the previous NC Governor (and a few others) is a alum of the law school, the majority of their class is white (somewhere around 60% last I checked, still one of the most diverse law schools), and I have met plenty of good LAWYERS who went to school there and are doing just fine.

Also, if you had read a little further you would have seen that one of their major recruitment goals is to give a chance to people who normally would not get a chance to go to law school. Sure, their numbers and their glorious USNWR ranking suffer as a result because they hit some home runs and strike out with some misses. But you know what? Not every law school sits and plays the ranking game! And it's well entrenched enough in the state that those who succeed at the school can do just fine.


Thank you. I was getting rather annoyed by these postings. And I would also like to add that just because a student has a 160+ does not mean they would automatically get admitted to NCCU. It is quite possible that the students did not take time with the personal statement or other portions of the application because they thought there was no way they would get denied. Arrogance. I would also like to add that I know quite a few people at NCCU, of all ethnicities and they are doing quite well. They also have a huge evening program for working adults and a large amount of students of different backgrounds pursue that instead of full-time enrollment. And also, LSN is represents a small portion of an applicant pool especially for schools that are not in the Top 100. So it is difficult to make a discrimination argument based off that small sample. NCCU is a state supported school which receives federal money and of course discrimination based upon race is illegal. I'm sure OCR would investigate if there were a problem.

FelaForever
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby FelaForever » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:22 am

5x0w wrote:
Jasper12 wrote:Maybe, they have rejected/waitlisted: One 168, two 161s, One 160, One 162. While Accepting: Five 140-145s. I really am curious about this. I know nothing about the school, am not an applicant, yet I am strangely bothered by this. Probably because if I was one of their 160+ applicants I would definitely be pissed.


Entitlement's a bitch.


HAHAHA

And I'd just like to second, that as an NC resident, many many white people do attend Central, and go on to have very successful law careers (not to say that the non-whites don't, just want to correct the ridiculous assumption that they "discriminate" against whites). Look all around the state and you will see NCCU law grads working in any sector.

Aqualibrium
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:34 am

waytofailself wrote:
hombredulce wrote:I went and skimmed, but pretty much could have told you the reason without it....

Discrimination

The school is an HBCU, and many of those who were wait listed/rejected where not AA's.


I just wanted to post to point out that you're a freaking moron.

The more probable legitimate answer is yield protection. Instead, you whip out your jump to conclusions mat and make crap up. As has already been said, the previous NC Governor (and a few others) is a alum of the law school, the majority of their class is white (somewhere around 60% last I checked, still one of the most diverse law schools), and I have met plenty of good LAWYERS who went to school there and are doing just fine.

Also, if you had read a little further you would have seen that one of their major recruitment goals is to give a chance to people who normally would not get a chance to go to law school. Sure, their numbers and their glorious USNWR ranking suffer as a result because they hit some home runs and strike out with some misses. But you know what? Not every law school sits and plays the ranking game! And it's well entrenched enough in the state that those who succeed at the school can do just fine.



My post was to some extent troll food. I understand that the point of schools like this is to allow people who might not normally have a chance at law school the opportunity to better themselves. I am all for that. I don't recall saying it was a crap school or a school that couldn't train lawyers, and I certainly didn't mention its ranking.

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:56 am

waytofailself wrote:
hombredulce wrote:I went and skimmed, but pretty much could have told you the reason without it....

Discrimination

The school is an HBCU, and many of those who were wait listed/rejected where not AA's.


I just wanted to post to point out that you're a freaking moron.

The more probable legitimate answer is yield protection. Instead, you whip out your jump to conclusions mat and make crap up. As has already been said, the previous NC Governor (and a few others) is a alum of the law school, the majority of their class is white (somewhere around 60% last I checked, still one of the most diverse law schools), and I have met plenty of good LAWYERS who went to school there and are doing just fine.

Also, if you had read a little further you would have seen that one of their major recruitment goals is to give a chance to people who normally would not get a chance to go to law school.
But you know what? Not every law school sits and plays the ranking game! And it's well entrenched enough in the state that those who succeed at the school can do just fine.



This makes no sense, if you are not a slave to the rankings then why yield protect? YP, is a ploy to improve rankings! Wow, its hilarious how someone can call someone a moron and then make such a contradictory moronic statement within a few lines. ALSO, I could understand the argument that the 160+ applicants may have been arrogant b/c of their score and spent little time on their personal statement, BUT it seems that they have rejected/waitlisted all 160+ applicants across the board. I know that LSN is not indicative of every school's admissions patterns, but its usefulness is based upon the notion that its users are(more or less) the standard and patterns tend to develop. Please, someone, give me a valid reason why they REJECT/WAITLIST their top applicants!

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:01 am

I guess you mention a T4 like NCCU and you are doomed to sift through poor logic and bad insults. Will some competent people please post an answer!

misssle
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby misssle » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:06 am

Jasper12 wrote:
waytofailself wrote:
hombredulce wrote:I went and skimmed, but pretty much could have told you the reason without it....

Discrimination

The school is an HBCU, and many of those who were wait listed/rejected where not AA's.


I just wanted to post to point out that you're a freaking moron.

The more probable legitimate answer is yield protection. Instead, you whip out your jump to conclusions mat and make crap up. As has already been said, the previous NC Governor (and a few others) is a alum of the law school, the majority of their class is white (somewhere around 60% last I checked, still one of the most diverse law schools), and I have met plenty of good LAWYERS who went to school there and are doing just fine.

Also, if you had read a little further you would have seen that one of their major recruitment goals is to give a chance to people who normally would not get a chance to go to law school.
But you know what? Not every law school sits and plays the ranking game! And it's well entrenched enough in the state that those who succeed at the school can do just fine.



This makes no sense, if you are not a slave to the rankings then why yield protect? YP, is a ploy to improve rankings! Wow, its hilarious how someone can call someone a moron and then make such a contradictory moronic statement within a few lines. ALSO, I could understand the argument that the 160+ applicants may have been arrogant b/c of their score and spent little time on their personal statement, BUT it seems that they have rejected/waitlisted all 160+ applicants across the board. I know that LSN is not indicative of every school's admissions patterns, but its usefulness is based upon the notion that its users are(more or less) the standard and patterns tend to develop. Please, someone, give me a valid reason why they REJECT/WAITLIST their top applicants!


It seems this is causing you a great deal of distress and none of the answers provided to your questions are satisfactory. Since no one here is an admissions officer at NCCU, I think you would do better by getting your answer straight from the source. The number to NCCU Law (919) 530-6333. Maybe using your anytime minutes will make you happy.

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Dick Whitman
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Dick Whitman » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:23 am

That's some mighty keen statistical analysis you drew from 27 applicants on LSN for this cycle. Are you gardenstategrrl?

I wonder what justice1913, jregister, afer1500, and jnnfr965 think about NCCU's reverse discrimination?

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:30 am

Come on Dick, if LSN displayed such a narrow spectrum that it in no way indicated patterns to other applicants then what would be the point in it as a resource?

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Dick Whitman
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Dick Whitman » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:37 am

Jasper12 wrote:Come on Dick, if LSN displayed such a narrow spectrum that it in no way indicated patterns to other applicants then what would be the point in it as a resource?


None, which is why it is a great tool for analyzing patterns at Georgetown (1607 applicants) and absolutely useless for NCCU. Are you really basing your analysis on a single applicant?

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:45 am

No, i'm basing it on your face.

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waytofailself
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby waytofailself » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:27 pm

Jasper12 wrote:This makes no sense, if you are not a slave to the rankings then why yield protect? YP, is a ploy to improve rankings!


Hidden in your holier than thou banter is actually one good nugget of thought, so I applaud you. I'm not sure what else to call rejecting applicants who probably won't attend other than yield protection. If you can point me in the direction of the correct term I'd appreciate it.

However, you seem to be lost in your narrowness. Rejecting applicants who probably won't attend the school does have another purpose. A very important purpose. Accepting applicants who are more likely to attend. Someone is far more likely to attend one of their target schools when they receive an acceptance than a waitlist. Why waste limited acceptance resources on people whose numbers predict a far higher likelihood of attending UNC, WFU, or schools in surrounding states? Why risk of losing out on a number of other good applicants because they received a waitlist from one school but acceptances from others? That's the simple cost-benefit analysis approach: take appealing applicants whose numbers match who usually come in or shoot for the moon at the risk of being under-enrolled.

On the other hand (and this is speculation), it could be a matter of NCCU looking far more closely at application essays, resumes, prior experience, and the LSAT essay section. As you said, this would not necessarily explain the apparent across the board rejection (although LSN is self reported so be careful with the number of data points you have). You could always call their admissions office (and someone was kind enough to supply you with their number).

I don't expect you to do anything other than try and poke through my post for any more unintentional idiosyncrasies. Hopefully you'll come up with a better justification than "your face."

You're going to have a great time in law school. I promise.

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:29 pm

waytofailself wrote:
Jasper12 wrote:This makes no sense, if you are not a slave to the rankings then why yield protect? YP, is a ploy to improve rankings!


Hidden in your holier than thou banter is actually one good nugget of thought, so I applaud you. I'm not sure what else to call rejecting applicants who probably won't attend other than yield protection. If you can point me in the direction of the correct term I'd appreciate it.

However, you seem to be lost in your narrowness. Rejecting applicants who probably won't attend the school does have another purpose. A very important purpose. Accepting applicants who are more likely to attend. Someone is far more likely to attend one of their target schools when they receive an acceptance than a waitlist. Why waste limited acceptance resources on people whose numbers predict a far higher likelihood of attending UNC, WFU, or schools in surrounding states? Why risk of losing out on a number of other good applicants because they received a waitlist from one school but acceptances from others? That's the simple cost-benefit analysis approach: take appealing applicants whose numbers match who usually come in or shoot for the moon at the risk of being under-enrolled.

On the other hand (and this is speculation), it could be a matter of NCCU looking far more closely at application essays, resumes, prior experience, and the LSAT essay section. As you said, this would not necessarily explain the apparent across the board rejection (although LSN is self reported so be careful with the number of data points you have). You could always call their admissions office (and someone was kind enough to supply you with their number).

I don't expect you to do anything other than try and poke through my post for any more unintentional idiosyncrasies. Hopefully you'll come up with a better justification than "your face."

You're going to have a great time in law school. I promise.


My point exactly, more than likely they would not miss out on their other GOOD applicants, because people with 140-150 LSAT scores are: 1) Not good applicants; 2) More than likely have been accepted to few other places.

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Bobby Kennedy
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Bobby Kennedy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:31 pm

Jasper12 wrote:No, i'm basing it on your face.

nice.

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waytofailself
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby waytofailself » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:50 pm

Jasper12 wrote:My point exactly, more than likely they would not miss out on their other GOOD applicants, because people with 140-150 LSAT scores are: 1) Not good applicants; 2) More than likely have been accepted to few other places.


Thank you for the more civil reply, though I think you might have missed my point a little bit. The good applicants I'm referring to are the people with 140-150 LSAT scores that the school likes and would like to accept (universally calling someone with a 140-150 LSAT a bad applicant is a little broad, don't you think? especially on an ethnically/socio-economically biased standardized test). Of course, I'm speculating and putting words into the adcom's mouth without any authority or personal knowledge.

However, think of point #2 from the school and applicant's perspective. Someone with lower numbers may have a lower acceptance rate depending on where s/he applied. When that person is looking at one or two acceptances and waitlists from similar schools, how often is that person going to wait to get off the waitlist to send in deposit money (leaving out the location factor, which has major implications).

Outside of the top 14-25, choosing who to let in and who to waitlist becomes a dicey game. Over accept and you run the risk of too many people matriculating. Waitlist too many people and you might underenroll. Over accept people whose numbers tend to indicate they'll go somewhere else? You end up with the worst of both worlds. The risk gets magnified as you go lower down the deified/demonized USNWR rankings.

I don't envy an adcom's job at all. It's tough to figure out how to build your class when all you have is paper and essays (I remember being shocked when I learned how few law schools interview students). My best guess for NCCU is that they weigh other factors (like desire to attend NCCU) far more heavily than LSAT. If someone scored a really high LSAT and expressed an strong interest in attending their evening program (one of the few (only?) in the state), I really doubt they would get dinged.

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Jasper12
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby Jasper12 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:12 pm

Touche!

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juliusgirlie
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Re: What's the Dealio with North Carolina Central?

Postby juliusgirlie » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:18 am

I expressed a clear interest in attending Central's day program for cost reasons and their intellectual property course offerings. I got flat out rejected with a 162/3.4. In-state, white female from UNC Chapel Hill. I'm pretty much being punished by NCCU for my hard work. And yes, I would have actually enrolled.

I think something is afoot.




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