Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation Forum
- gravity
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:35 pm
Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
What are some differences (hours/salary/etc) between prosecution and litigation?
I hear, for prosecution, you don't really meet clients, and you work alone all day in your office.
Also, for EE/CS, is it hard to get a job at a top firm without an advanced degree (MS/PhD)?
I hear, for prosecution, you don't really meet clients, and you work alone all day in your office.
Also, for EE/CS, is it hard to get a job at a top firm without an advanced degree (MS/PhD)?
- koggit
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 11:50 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Good questions, I'd also like to hear what people have to say.
- Formerbruin
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:24 am
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Joke one of my professors told:
How do you tell an extroverted patent prosecutor from an introverted patent prosecutor?
The extroverted patent prosecutor will look at the other person's shoes when he speaks.
How do you tell an extroverted patent prosecutor from an introverted patent prosecutor?
The extroverted patent prosecutor will look at the other person's shoes when he speaks.
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- Posts: 62
- Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:29 am
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Pros.: hours are very steady, mostly equal salaries but a lot of top firms don't have large prosecution arms (it's mostly lower margin work for the firms). You probably meet with your clients less, but I think it depends on the client. I certainly spoke with the clients a lot while doing pros.gravity wrote:What are some differences (hours/salary/etc) between prosecution and litigation?
I hear, for prosecution, you don't really meet clients, and you work alone all day in your office.
Also, for EE/CS, is it hard to get a job at a top firm without an advanced degree (MS/PhD)?
Lit.: Unpredictable hours and lots of them.
Advanced degrees are unnecessary for EE/CS only bio needs advanced degrees.
- rhit2004
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:04 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
My understanding is that there is not much travel involved with patent prosecution as much of the work can be done via telephone. What is the travel situation like for patent litigation? Are depositions done live or are they all done via video conferencing now?
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- koggit
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 11:50 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Thanks -- when you contrast steady/unpredictable hours are you implying that the two positions put in the same amount of hours per year?patentlaw wrote:Pros.: hours are very steady, mostly equal salaries but a lot of top firms don't have large prosecution arms (it's mostly lower margin work for the firms). You probably meet with your clients less, but I think it depends on the client. I certainly spoke with the clients a lot while doing pros.gravity wrote:What are some differences (hours/salary/etc) between prosecution and litigation?
I hear, for prosecution, you don't really meet clients, and you work alone all day in your office.
Also, for EE/CS, is it hard to get a job at a top firm without an advanced degree (MS/PhD)?
Lit.: Unpredictable hours and lots of them.
Advanced degrees are unnecessary for EE/CS only bio needs advanced degrees.
- gravity
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:35 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
does that mean it's more common for patent practitioners to start their own firm or do solo practice?patentlaw wrote:a lot of top firms don't have large prosecution arms
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- Posts: 62
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Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
There's still a lot of travel with litigation. Pros. depends on the firm, some go to DC a lot for examiner interviews, it depends on the client as well.rhit2004 wrote:My understanding is that there is not much travel involved with patent prosecution as much of the work can be done via telephone. What is the travel situation like for patent litigation? Are depositions done live or are they all done via video conferencing now?
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- Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:29 am
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Well your billables are your billables. So at a firm that does both, you've got the same requirements. Actually, pros. is a bit harder to bill for in my experience. You start and stop a lot on pros. so your billable to non-billable rate is a bit higher.koggit wrote:Thanks -- when you contrast steady/unpredictable hours are you implying that the two positions put in the same amount of hours per year?patentlaw wrote:Pros.: hours are very steady, mostly equal salaries but a lot of top firms don't have large prosecution arms (it's mostly lower margin work for the firms). You probably meet with your clients less, but I think it depends on the client. I certainly spoke with the clients a lot while doing pros.gravity wrote:What are some differences (hours/salary/etc) between prosecution and litigation?
I hear, for prosecution, you don't really meet clients, and you work alone all day in your office.
Also, for EE/CS, is it hard to get a job at a top firm without an advanced degree (MS/PhD)?
Lit.: Unpredictable hours and lots of them.
Advanced degrees are unnecessary for EE/CS only bio needs advanced degrees.
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- Posts: 62
- Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:29 am
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
No but you'll find smaller firms or boutiques doing more pros. The top Biglaw firms that do pros. don't do a lot of it.gravity wrote:does that mean it's more common for patent practitioners to start their own firm or do solo practice?patentlaw wrote:a lot of top firms don't have large prosecution arms
- wakama
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:38 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
it certainly doesn't hurt to have an MS instead of just a BS though. even with a EE/CS degree.gravity wrote:What are some differences (hours/salary/etc) between prosecution and litigation?
I hear, for prosecution, you don't really meet clients, and you work alone all day in your office.
Also, for EE/CS, is it hard to get a job at a top firm without an advanced degree (MS/PhD)?
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- Posts: 334
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:36 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Hours: it's harder to bill for patent prosecution since clients don't want to spend that much money on obtaining patents (you'll need to write off some of your time). In litigation, the hours come easier since you usually bill all of your time. However, some IP firms have a lower billable hours requirement for prosecution to offset this.
Salary: at the large firms, you get paid the same in base. I'm not sure if bonus differs based on whether you're in lit or pros.
Degree: you generally need an advanced degree for biotech, pharm, and medical patent prosecution, but not for EE/CS/ME prosecution. I only have a bachelors in EE but was quite sought after in OCI.
Work: actually, I think in prosecution you get more client contact than in litigation. In large firms, the junior associates are stuck doing doc review and legal research while the partners talk with the clients. In prosecution, many times you need to talk to the client to discuss the invention as you're writing the patent. When I was a summer associate last year, I called clients (and they called me) many times. Also, you can expand beyond simply prosecution and do corporate/transactional IP work (e.g. licensing, opinions, due diligence) which can expose you to clients as well.
Salary: at the large firms, you get paid the same in base. I'm not sure if bonus differs based on whether you're in lit or pros.
Degree: you generally need an advanced degree for biotech, pharm, and medical patent prosecution, but not for EE/CS/ME prosecution. I only have a bachelors in EE but was quite sought after in OCI.
Work: actually, I think in prosecution you get more client contact than in litigation. In large firms, the junior associates are stuck doing doc review and legal research while the partners talk with the clients. In prosecution, many times you need to talk to the client to discuss the invention as you're writing the patent. When I was a summer associate last year, I called clients (and they called me) many times. Also, you can expand beyond simply prosecution and do corporate/transactional IP work (e.g. licensing, opinions, due diligence) which can expose you to clients as well.
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Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
Which (lit. or pro.) would allow you the freedom to move cities or work long-distance without losing business or position in a firm?
In biotech, would having 3 years of research experience but no advanced degree be enough to do pro.?
Thanks!
In biotech, would having 3 years of research experience but no advanced degree be enough to do pro.?
Thanks!
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- brokendowncar
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:54 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
I am also interested in this.zoysite wrote: In biotech, would having 3 years of research experience but no advanced degree be enough to do pro.?
- GodSpeed
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:05 pm
Re: Patent Prosecution vs. Litigation
After the initial offer, lawyers don't get paid based on credentials like an engineer would (+$10k for MS). They don't care if you were home schooled by retarded orphan chimps.
Do you get results?
Yes: O
No: O
Please check one.
To answer some questions, based on what other IP lawyers have told me:
Litigation - stressful, high pressure, big dollar, company on the line, million dollar legal fees. It requires less technical expertise, but it's more demanding in terms of stress, dedication and time. Apparently, it's not rare for an electrical engineer to litigate a case about patent infringement on a mechanical device.
Prosecution is more 9-5 in an office, advising clients and etc. It requires more specialized knowledge, but it comes with less stress, predictable hours, and whatnot.
Do you get results?
Yes: O
No: O
Please check one.
To answer some questions, based on what other IP lawyers have told me:
Litigation - stressful, high pressure, big dollar, company on the line, million dollar legal fees. It requires less technical expertise, but it's more demanding in terms of stress, dedication and time. Apparently, it's not rare for an electrical engineer to litigate a case about patent infringement on a mechanical device.
Prosecution is more 9-5 in an office, advising clients and etc. It requires more specialized knowledge, but it comes with less stress, predictable hours, and whatnot.
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