A day in the life of an IP lawyer Forum

[stavand]

Ken,

IP Law is a field I am extremely interested in, although I haven't made my mind up yet. Right now, my top two law school choices are NYU and Penn. In an earlier post, you recommended NYU to me anyway. However, I had the opportunity to visit Penn (not visited NYU yet) and I really like it. With that said, what is the drop off in IP between NYU and Penn.

[Da Stain]

Haven't read any entries here, but day in the life of an IP lawyer:

Whip paralegals, write brief, whip paralegals again, call opposing counsel names, whip paralegals, tell other lawyers names you called opposing, counsel, whip paralegals, go home and play Dungeons & Dragons, rinse, repeat.

That may just be litigation though.....


<-----Thoroughly hates job and attorneys today. Mothers don't let your sons grow up to be asshole attorneys........

[CraigAndy]

Hi Ken, I am an engineering technology major right now and really want to become a patent attorney...I think I may attend a local school for cheaper because I think it may be on me. Do you know if an engineering technology major can sit in on the patent bar? Also, do you feel as though the law schools in Ohio and/or Michigan are good in the IP dept?

[maize315]

Is it possible to get hired in IP Law without a science background? I would think a science background would only benefit those who specialize in patent law.

[gettinin10]

Ken,

Obviously the demand for patent lawyers is high. But is the market for copyright and trademark becoming saturated, especially in the silicon valley?
Also how has IP law fared in this economy, and is it nearing any kind of ceiling, or is the sky the limit with IP law as a whole?

thanks

[Ken]

Patent lawyers are in demand more than ever so if one has a technical background and is interested in patent law there are no concerns about a slowdown of any sort. Patent prosecution (filing the applications) requires a technical degree and that one pass the patent bar, but patent litigation (which I have done) does not require passing the patent bar. A great article about passing the patent bar is at:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/patent-bar-prep.html

A scientific background is not required for copyright or trademark prosecution (filing the applications and strategizing over risk analysis of various trademarks, which I do a lot of).

However, trademark work is down for everyone as the creation and protection of brands becomes less important when a company is worried about staying in business. Trademark and copyright law are definitely impacted when the economy slows down and are cyclical (as opposed to bankruptcy law which is counter cyclical and booming right now).

For those entering law school now, I think the economy will be much better in 3 years and copyright and trademark attorneys will again be in demand, but the guarantee is that patent attorneys will always be in demand because so few attorneys have the requisite technical background.

[maize315]

Thanks for the clarification Ken.

What can one do to make himself marketable for trademark/copyright law? Would an MBA or fluency in other languages help? I am certain that I do not want to practice patent law. I am wondering how this would affect my career advancement.

[pcmac]

Hi Ken and others:

I am an engineer (went to UCLA for EE/CS undergrad) with a few years working experience and got accepted to Pierce and Chicago-Kent. Trying to decide which one to go. The two schools have practically equal specialty ranking this year (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... operty-law). I have read a lot about choosing the school with better overall ranking, which would put Kent over Pierce, but after having visited Pierce and talked to people there, it seems to me that between 1/3 to 1/2 of the students there come from engineering and science background, while it's 1/6 or less at Kent according to their 2008 figures (http://www.kentlaw.edu/students/). I KNOW I want to do IP law, patent law to be more specific, otherwise I wouldn't want to do law at all.

Kent's location being in the heart of Chicago definitely is a plus in terms of internship and work opportunities, but I hear the long and hard winters at Concord, NH (where Pierce is) is ideal for studying. I wonder if it would be better for me to choose Pierce because of its focus on IP?

I also speak fluent Mandarin and eying on the huge market in the Pacific rim. Of course Berkeley, Stanford or Santa Clara would have been great for me, but my LSAT score was a bit disappointing.

Please help.

Many thanks!

[sonpleaseiamthelaw]

Ken and anyone else who can answer,

I will be attending University of Michigan next Summer 2010. I am interested in becoming a patent attorney. My background, though, is an undergraduate degree in Industrial and Operations Engineering (also from umich). Will this be a hindrance to me getting a solid job in IP? Do they basically look for EE/CS only? Obviously, like any engineer, I have a basic understanding of math, physics, etc that would let me understand the gist of general technical documents. But I don't have the complex knowledge that EE/CS would have regarding software, circuits, etc.

So, what's the deal? Is patent biglaw out of the question for me?

[palmettoru]

Ken and anyone else who can answer,

I will be attending University of Michigan next Summer 2010. I am interested in becoming a patent attorney. My background, though, is an undergraduate degree in Industrial and Operations Engineering (also from umich). Will this be a hindrance to me getting a solid job in IP? Do they basically look for EE/CS only? Obviously, like any engineer, I have a basic understanding of math, physics, etc that would let me understand the gist of general technical documents. But I don't have the complex knowledge that EE/CS would have regarding software, circuits, etc.

So, what's the deal? Is patent biglaw out of the question for me?

I'm also curious about this. I also have a non EE/CS Engineering degree and will be starting at Fordham in a few weeks. Does previous work experience factor more into patent law hiring than other types of associate hiring?

[Brooklyn13]

[Deleted]

[poker1928]

I figured this link may be useful, detailing the possible ways to meet the requirements to practice patent prosecution (as has been mentioned earlier, there are no set requirements for litigation): http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb.pdf

Basically you can either have a degree in one of the recognized majors, or meet one of the credit total amounts in a variety of classes, or (which is probably not relevant to many people) pass the fundamentals of engineering exam.

[Gooner]

ITE and in the future, I think there's going to be more a demand for patent litigators who have passed the patent bar. There's a new procedure called inter partes re-examination that has an incredibly high success rate for getting patents invalidated. Inter partes re-exams are also WAY cheaper than the average patent litigation (I think the figure I heard was by a factor of ten).

http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009/07 ... stics.html

I plan on becoming a patent litigator, but I wanted the patent bar under my belt because a) registered patent attorneys are usually an easier sell to clients for litigation and b) I feel like I'm a more complete litigator because I can do interferences, re-exams, etc.

[budafied]

Hey Ken,

I might be interested in IP law, but I also have an interest in Corporate law. Could you perhaps compare the two, or link to an article that does so?

Also, how does Duke compare to the top schools like Stanford and Boalt in placing graduates in top IP firms, like Silicon Valley? What about Corporate law for Duke, are they top notch?

Thanks!

[erico]

Patent lawyers are in demand more than ever so if one has a technical background and is interested in patent law there are no concerns about a slowdown of any sort. Patent prosecution (filing the applications) requires a technical degree and that one pass the patent bar, but patent litigation (which I have done) does not require passing the patent bar. A great article about passing the patent bar is at:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/patent-bar-prep.html

A scientific background is not required for copyright or trademark prosecution (filing the applications and strategizing over risk analysis of various trademarks, which I do a lot of).

However, trademark work is down for everyone as the creation and protection of brands becomes less important when a company is worried about staying in business. Trademark and copyright law are definitely impacted when the economy slows down and are cyclical (as opposed to bankruptcy law which is counter cyclical and booming right now).

For those entering law school now, I think the economy will be much better in 3 years and copyright and trademark attorneys will again be in demand, but the guarantee is that patent attorneys will always be in demand because so few attorneys have the requisite technical background.

Ken, this is very refreshing news. After reading of the saturated legal market and crappy jobs available to all but those who attend HYS I became somewhat discouraged. Law school represents some risk for me as I would be leaving a good job that I enjoy with a stable company. I've always been told that my BSEE and 3 years work experience in RFIC design is very marketable as an attorney but I began to doubt that ITE. Hard IP is a field I'm definitely interested in and it sounds like I would still be able to find rewarding (financially and otherwise) work. Schools I'm looking at are USD, BYU, GWU, USC etc. Can you comment on the number of hard IP guys that work in house for tech companies and how that would compare to working for a law firm?

Thanks a lot.

[NayBoer]

Ken, this is very refreshing news. After reading of the saturated legal market and crappy jobs available to all but those who attend HYS I became somewhat discouraged. Law school represents some risk for me as I would be leaving a good job that I enjoy with a stable company. I've always been told that my BSEE and 3 years work experience in RFIC design is very marketable as an attorney but I began to doubt that ITE. Hard IP is a field I'm definitely interested in and it sounds like I would still be able to find rewarding (financially and otherwise) work. Schools I'm looking at are USD, BYU, GWU, USC etc. Can you comment on the number of hard IP guys that work in house for tech companies and how that would compare to working for a law firm?

Thanks a lot.

That was posted Thu Mar 02, 2006

[erico]

Ken, this is very refreshing news. After reading of the saturated legal market and crappy jobs available to all but those who attend HYS I became somewhat discouraged. Law school represents some risk for me as I would be leaving a good job that I enjoy with a stable company. I've always been told that my BSEE and 3 years work experience in RFIC design is very marketable as an attorney but I began to doubt that ITE. Hard IP is a field I'm definitely interested in and it sounds like I would still be able to find rewarding (financially and otherwise) work. Schools I'm looking at are USD, BYU, GWU, USC etc. Can you comment on the number of hard IP guys that work in house for tech companies and how that would compare to working for a law firm?

Thanks a lot.

That was posted Thu Mar 02, 2006

I must be looking at something different because what I see says Aug. 2009. ?

[libertyjayne]

Hi, I am a Biomedical undergraduate student approaching graduation and looking into patent law. This forum has been very informative. I am considering becoming a patent agent a couple of years before I go to law school so I can save for law school and hopefully work part time for two years while in school. Do you have any feedback on this course of action? I am in the Seattle area. Do you think I will have trouble finding a job as a patent agent with out a degree? Also, do you have any opinion about the University of Washington? Additionally, do you think being a patent agent prior to applying to law school will help me get into a good school. Thanks for your help.
-Liberty

[erico]

Hi, I am a Biomedical undergraduate student approaching graduation and looking into patent law. This forum has been very informative. I am considering becoming a patent agent a couple of years before I go to law school so I can save for law school and hopefully work part time for two years while in school. Do you have any feedback on this course of action? I am in the Seattle area. Do you think I will have trouble finding a job as a patent agent with out a degree? Also, do you have any opinion about the University of Washington? Additionally, do you think being a patent agent prior to applying to law school will help me get into a good school. Thanks for your help.
-Liberty

UW is the best school for the Pacific NW and a good deal for Wash residents.

[vl2104]

Patent lawyers are in demand more than ever so if one has a technical background and is interested in patent law there are no concerns about a slowdown of any sort. Patent prosecution (filing the applications) requires a technical degree and that one pass the patent bar, but patent litigation (which I have done) does not require passing the patent bar. A great article about passing the patent bar is at:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/patent-bar-prep.html

A scientific background is not required for copyright or trademark prosecution (filing the applications and strategizing over risk analysis of various trademarks, which I do a lot of).

However, trademark work is down for everyone as the creation and protection of brands becomes less important when a company is worried about staying in business. Trademark and copyright law are definitely impacted when the economy slows down and are cyclical (as opposed to bankruptcy law which is counter cyclical and booming right now).

For those entering law school now, I think the economy will be much better in 3 years and copyright and trademark attorneys will again be in demand, but the guarantee is that patent attorneys will always be in demand because so few attorneys have the requisite technical background.

In light of the downturn, wondering how much this opinion has changed? I'm surprised Ken was so optimistic in Aug 2009. What I was hearing is that tech corporations, in their cost-saving efforts, have pressured firms into accepting lower fees for patent filing; to the point where it's no longer an attractive business for many firms. IP Litigation seems to be where the growth and activity is.

Anyone care to comment? Are the lower margins in patent filing causing employment opportunities for aspiring Patent Lawyers to dissippate? Or does anyone still think that "Patent lawyers are in demand more than ever"?

[UTaylor526]

Tagged.

I will be meeting with an attorney that heads the trademark dept. of his firm this coming Friday and want to read up on trademark law. I have a BS in advertising and want to eventually work in trademark. Thanks for the great info -I look forward to digging through it when I have a few moments.

[injury-law]

very nice thread on IP law .IP Lawyer are the best paid with average salary around US $120,166

[andyrew]

I know there must be other engineers on this site who are interested in, or currently practicing IP law.

My question to all of you is:

Does it matter what type of engineering?

I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and am considering patent law.

How are the opportunities compared with a more "in demand" engineering degree such as EE?

I realize that there are fields for which mechanical engineering would be preferable to EE such as medical devices, alternative energy, aerospace/defense.... etc

[BackToTheOldHouse]

tag

[BradA3]

Someone earlier asked how Duke's IP program was and the question was never answered. I was wondering the same thing actually. Does anyone know?