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 Post subject: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:18 pm
Posts: 49
I moved here a week ago. Orientation started Thursday and goes on for four days. Yesterday, I sat in on a seminar geared towards spouses and families of law students (I probably shouldn't have). In which the dean (or whoever she was--I've heard so many names at this point I'm starting to lose track) told us, "Your law student will study and read to prepare for class 60-80 hours A WEEK).
They had a panel of students up there--some who got married in law school, some with kids. The married ones? "Oh, we make our marriage work, by going to lunch once a week. I put it on my calendar a couple weeks ahead of time." And "My family lives in the area, but they're very understanding that I can't usually see them now, and I can't call them once a week anymore. I leave thanksgiving early after the turkey and I don't stay for cake at family gatherings--I have to go home and study."

It suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks. My life is over. I'm 23 years old and I suddenly think my life is over. I suddenly realized, I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. I'll never be able to go on a date? Or call my mom once a week? I live a half hour from my grandma--that was one of the reasons I picked this school--I won't be able to have dinner with her on sunday nights like I planned? I won't be able to go outside?
Does everybody ready for 80 hours a week as a 1L? Was this a scare tactic to separate the wheat from the chaff?

I want to have a life. Even a small one.
I came from a really hard work ethic--Two majors, one a STEM, worked all 4 years of undergrad at least 20 hours a week (usually more because I usually had 2 jobs), and was a 4-H leader during the school year as well.I took 22 credits (several of them labs because of my science major) last semester. and 11 credits of summer school. I thought I knew hard work. I don't drink or party--the only weekend in undergrad I went out was graduation. Most weekends I had too much homework on Thursday and Friday nights, and worked all day Saturday and sunday.
But they made it sound like this is all cake compared to 1L? And then you get out and become an attorney and is it even worse?

I went home and cried last night. I never cry. And I sat in my closet and sobbed.
Somebody please tell me if it's actually like this or if this was a bit of an exaggeration?


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:40 pm 
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If you're working that hard for law school you're doing something wrong. Stop freaking out. Unless you go to a non-14 without a huge scholarship. Then drop out no matter what.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Just checked your posting history and saw the schools you were considering. You should drop out immediately.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Posts: 6263
As a 1L I had a ton of free time, maybe put in like 25 hours a week including time spent in class. You have to put in more around finals time but probably no more than like 40 hours a week. I took most of Thanksgiving weekend off.

Just relax. Whether you should drop out or not totally depends on school/debt/job prospects. I'm getting a strong TTT vibe based on what those jokers said, but if you're at a good enough school with a low enough debt level then enjoy.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Location: Suck my she-balls 0Ls
Progress01 wrote:
I moved here a week ago. Orientation started Thursday and goes on for four days. Yesterday, I sat in on a seminar geared towards spouses and families of law students (I probably shouldn't have). In which the dean (or whoever she was--I've heard so many names at this point I'm starting to lose track) told us, "Your law student will study and read to prepare for class 60-80 hours A WEEK).
They had a panel of students up there--some who got married in law school, some with kids. The married ones? "Oh, we make our marriage work, by going to lunch once a week. I put it on my calendar a couple weeks ahead of time." And "My family lives in the area, but they're very understanding that I can't usually see them now, and I can't call them once a week anymore. I leave thanksgiving early after the turkey and I don't stay for cake at family gatherings--I have to go home and study."

It suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks. My life is over. I'm 23 years old and I suddenly think my life is over. I suddenly realized, I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. I'll never be able to go on a date? Or call my mom once a week? I live a half hour from my grandma--that was one of the reasons I picked this school--I won't be able to have dinner with her on sunday nights like I planned? I won't be able to go outside?
Does everybody ready for 80 hours a week as a 1L? Was this a scare tactic to separate the wheat from the chaff?

I want to have a life. Even a small one.
I came from a really hard work ethic--Two majors, one a STEM, worked all 4 years of undergrad at least 20 hours a week (usually more because I usually had 2 jobs), and was a 4-H leader during the school year as well.I took 22 credits (several of them labs because of my science major) last semester. and 11 credits of summer school. I thought I knew hard work. I don't drink or party--the only weekend in undergrad I went out was graduation. Most weekends I had too much homework on Thursday and Friday nights, and worked all day Saturday and sunday.
But they made it sound like this is all cake compared to 1L? And then you get out and become an attorney and is it even worse?

I went home and cried last night. I never cry. And I sat in my closet and sobbed.
Somebody please tell me if it's actually like this or if this was a bit of an exaggeration?


huge huge huge exaggeration.

But big law is worse than that.

What school or tier.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:44 pm 
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Way overblown. Some people might do that but you absolutely don't have to. And most will not.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Posts: 85
It's not that bad. People said those things at my orientation and I felt like I was missing something after the first month. I was busy, but it wasn't that crazy. Don't fall for the scare tactics. You may think this isn't for you and drop out, but don't do it based on orientation alone.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:20 pm 
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If you're working 60-80 hrs as a 1L, it'll be because of your own choices and not the work load. Only people I can imagine doing that much are people gunning to be #1 in their class. You'll probably put in a week at that work load in the run up to finals, but that's about it.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:30 pm 
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Also after Mal's comment, I looked through your post history. You only took the LSAT once after half-heartedly studying for it for only 1 month...you had a bad UG GPA...and now you're having a psychological breakdown just at the thought of law school from orientation.

You might reconsider your choice to go to law school....


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:39 pm 
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1+ the drop out now comment. In all honesty, OP probably should be putting in 60-80 hours a week in order to give him/herself the best chance of ending up in the top 5%.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:44 am
Posts: 517
I went back and read all your posts on this site.

There's a very high probability that law school is going to be a disaster for you, in both economic and psychological terms. You should do something else right now.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Why did you sit in on a seminar geared towards students with families/spouses?


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:10 pm 
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It wouldn't surprise me if students at TTT schools needed to spend 60-80 hours reading cases that more analytical students at better schools could read in 25-30 hours, but 80 hour weeks throughout the semester is probably a bit overboard.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:57 am 
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Friends at TTTs definitely do work that hard/much 1L year. Drop out.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:06 am 
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Echo the drop out sentiment given the schools you are considering.

Also during 1L, I spent a majority of the semester hanging out and playing xbox.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:07 am 
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Progress01 wrote:

They had a panel of students up there--some who got married in law school, some with kids. The married ones? "Oh, we make our marriage work, by going to lunch once a week. I put it on my calendar a couple weeks ahead of time." And "My family lives in the area, but they're very understanding that I can't usually see them now, and I can't call them once a week anymore. I leave thanksgiving early after the turkey and I don't stay for cake at family gatherings--I have to go home and study."

those people are not doing it right


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:44 am 
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Progress01 wrote:
I moved here a week ago. Orientation started Thursday and goes on for four days. Yesterday, I sat in on a seminar geared towards spouses and families of law students (I probably shouldn't have). In which the dean (or whoever she was--I've heard so many names at this point I'm starting to lose track) told us, "Your law student will study and read to prepare for class 60-80 hours A WEEK).
They had a panel of students up there--some who got married in law school, some with kids. The married ones? "Oh, we make our marriage work, by going to lunch once a week. I put it on my calendar a couple weeks ahead of time." And "My family lives in the area, but they're very understanding that I can't usually see them now, and I can't call them once a week anymore. I leave thanksgiving early after the turkey and I don't stay for cake at family gatherings--I have to go home and study."




LOL . . . those people are lying to make themselves sound bad ass.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:27 am 
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You probably should put in around those hours to get employment from (schools like Toledo). You can get very good grades without studying hard, but most people with the grades you need do study that hard. The truth is that no one knows what the difference is between 25 hours and 60 hours a week. In all likelihood, you're probably going from a B to a B+ or A- to an A with the time difference. You may want to sacrifice social stuff during 1L if you make friends with people at your school so studying becomes less miserable. But you seem to be getting way too panicky way too easily. You need to toughen up. This isn't only true for 1L, but wherever you are. It's not bad. You probably haven't faced adversity yet. In the long run it will make you stronger. Just try to be less breakable.

For what it's worth I went from around 60 hours a week as a 1L to around 15-20 a week as a 2L including classes. My grades dropped off - not significantly, but enough that I saw the difference. Just .2 per semester of GPA wasn't worth the sacrifice after 1L. During 1L, with .2 lower I probably would have been unemployed from a good school. The economy is that bad.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:36 am 
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Paul Campos wrote:
I went back and read all your posts on this site.

There's a very high probability that law school is going to be a disaster for you, in both economic and psychological terms. You should do something else right now.

Despite being stubbornly drunk, this is an intimidating response. OP, do some serious thinking ...


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:45 am 
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cron1834 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:
I went back and read all your posts on this site.

There's a very high probability that law school is going to be a disaster for you, in both economic and psychological terms. You should do something else right now.

Despite being stubbornly drunk, this is an intimidating response. OP, do some serious thinking ...

I think his point is merely that the boy/girl seems to be very histrionic, and the TTT is a terrible school unlikely to produce a job.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:51 am 
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You are having a breakdown because you've made a terrible life decision and your body is trying to tell you what your mind refuses to command: drop out & retake


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:53 am 
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Progress01 wrote:

I went home and cried last night. I never cry. And I sat in my closet and sobbed.
Somebody please tell me if it's actually like this or if this was a bit of an exaggeration?

lol take it easy man. I'm trying to make this a no more than 50 hours a week thing and from what I've heard from upper classman and here on tls, it's totally doable. Crying in your closet is rock bottom type shit. Don't be that guy. Embrace the process of learning the law just go.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:34 pm 
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jbagelboy wrote:
You are having a breakdown because you've made a terrible life decision and your body is trying to tell you what your mind refuses to command: drop out & retake

Come on. This person should have done that, but you know that's not why. They clearly wanted to avoid a gap year, because school seemed like a safe idea, and they're coming to the realization that law school isn't going to be the three year asylum they had thought it would. Compared to college, law school is going to be a lot of work, and then practice is going to be even more work. Once he's there, he really should be studying 60 hours a week, because it maximizes the chances that they do well. In addition to this, they should definitely go to counseling, because they seem especially likely to get psyched out and fall apart. A therapist would identify this risk, and work on cognitive responses to the stress. It is important that this person recognizes that the real world is a lot of work in or out of law, and that their fear should not be having to work hard, but that they set themselves up in a place where working hard is over 50% likely not to produce any positive results. Many people work hard and have good personal lives, and relationships. In all honesty, the type of people who require so much attention that you can't work hard and be close to them are likely not good people to get close to.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:42 pm 
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You've made a huge mistake. Drop out. Teach Yoga or something. It's true law school doesn't require those hours but practice requires that or more. If you're freaking out now it will only get worse.


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 Post subject: Re: It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:58 pm 
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Julius wrote:
You've made a huge mistake. Drop out. Teach Yoga or something. It's true law school doesn't require those hours but practice requires that or more. If you're freaking out now it will only get worse.

Again, I disagree. Although admittedly a small sample, the people I have met in big law from lower ranked schools can run circles around me in terms of stamina, and I have a good work ethic. The people saying you don't need to work 60 hours a week should keep in mind that OP needs to be #1 or #2 in their class to get what you would consider a good outcome. They can't chill and pull median.


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