law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

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rzzza

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law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby rzzza » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:39 pm

This is the first time in my life where I realized a B is actually considered a bad grade :roll: law school, what a bad joke

I've never obsessed about my grades, I've never been the type of student that got straight A's (graduated undergrad with a 3.4), but I've always worked hard and tried to enjoy myself during the learning process. I've always viewed education as a personal journey, not a competition.

Just finished up my fall semester. A- in legal writing, C+ in CivPro and C+ in Property. Don't know what I got in Torts yet. The way people in this field talk, a B is basically like an F and you should kill yourself if you get one. How does anyone stand this type of lunacy? I was told law school would be hard but I thought they meant the work would be intellectually challenging, not that the system was set up for people to feel like failures all the time if they don't pull straight A's right out the gate.

madness, bloody madness!

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pancakes3

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:59 pm

you can continue to view education as a personal journey but the reality of legal hiring really doesn't care about your personal feelings on education.

and if you asked TLS what they meant by "law school is hard," i'm pretty sure nobody would tell you that it's intellectually challenging, and would tell you that the toughest part of law school grading comes in the curve. i agree with you that the curve is shitty and it is explicitly designed to make normatively competent students look like failures.

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okaygo

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby okaygo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:14 am

After 2L OCI comes and goes (assuming personal success/school with high success rate) the competitiveness and neuroticness goes way down outside of the hopelessly striver type. Bs aren’t a death sentence, but multiple C+s is a bummer pal.

mcmand

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby mcmand » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 am

If only someone had warned you about how law school actually works.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=275573&p=9872008#p9872008

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=282058

How often are you going to make these posts decrying the unfairness of law school when we made every effort to dissuade you?

You should consult with whatever resources are at your school for improving your performance on exams, as well as resources on this forum. C+'s aren't something to brush off. I hate to contribute to the grade mania in law school but I'd like to see you succeed in your legal career. Step it up this term.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The_Lorax

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby The_Lorax » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:21 am

The reason people treat grades like B's so poorly is because most of the better schools' curves are quite high meaning they don't give that many grades below that.

As for why the focus on grades? Because they open doors, plain and simple. Law school is a professional school where presumably the goal is employment, and better grades will simply get you more (and better) interviews.

rzzza

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby rzzza » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:28 am

mcmand wrote:If only someone had warned you about how law school actually works.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=275573&p=9872008#p9872008

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=282058

How often are you going to make these posts decrying the unfairness of law school when we made every effort to dissuade you?

You should consult with whatever resources are at your school for improving your performance on exams, as well as resources on this forum. C+'s aren't something to brush off. I hate to contribute to the grade mania in law school but I'd like to see you succeed in your legal career. Step it up this term.


How do you remember this stuff about me? I'm actually impressed. I don't make many posts here but somehow you remember every post I've ever made. Thanks for saying you want to see me succeed.

I'm hoping for a decent grade in Torts so that my GPA is near a 3.0, that way this can all be a nice 'overcoming my obstacles' story in future interviews. I'm going to emphasize learning to write good exams this time and take way more practice tests. First semester is under my belt, now I know what to expect and where my focus should be. Law school is absurd there's no way I'm going to let it beat me.

mcmand

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby mcmand » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:39 am

I recognized your username. All I have to do is click your post history to see it all.

Outline early (or outline as you go through the term), and do practice exams as you said you would, even if open note. You have to flex your legal analysis muscles in order to improve.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jacketyellow

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby jacketyellow » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:55 am

mcmand wrote:I recognized your username. All I have to do is click your post history to see it all.

Outline early (or outline as you go through the term), and do practice exams as you said you would, even if open note. You have to flex your legal analysis muscles in order to improve.


Actually, man, just drop out. Yeah, yeah, I'm the bad guy, but no one is telling you the truth, especially when you already go to a lower-ranked school.

rzzza

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby rzzza » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:02 am

jacketyellow wrote:
mcmand wrote:I recognized your username. All I have to do is click your post history to see it all.

Outline early (or outline as you go through the term), and do practice exams as you said you would, even if open note. You have to flex your legal analysis muscles in order to improve.


Actually, man, just drop out. Yeah, yeah, I'm the bad guy, but no one is telling you the truth, especially when you already go to a lower-ranked school.


Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

mcmand

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby mcmand » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:09 am

rzzza wrote:Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


False analogy.

I don't think you should drop out at this point. Rethink your strategy as we've already discussed. Once you're in your 1L summer gig and have your grades back, you can reevaluate. It's not usually worth dropping out at this stage.

Addendum: do not listen to the folks telling you to drop out. This is not the environment to make that decision. You should wait (as I said above) to see how well you turn things around. Even if you still struggle next term, you should have a good talk with folks at your school, and supportive people in your life, about what your goals are and what are the ways to achieve them. It may mean staying, or going, or taking a semester or two off, but just relying purely on the advice of the two jokers (so far) on this thread on life changing decisions is not advisable.

Good luck and check back in. PM if you need more advice or ideas for how to approach the rest of 1L.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jingosaur

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby jingosaur » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:11 am

rzzza wrote:
jacketyellow wrote:
mcmand wrote:I recognized your username. All I have to do is click your post history to see it all.

Outline early (or outline as you go through the term), and do practice exams as you said you would, even if open note. You have to flex your legal analysis muscles in order to improve.


Actually, man, just drop out. Yeah, yeah, I'm the bad guy, but no one is telling you the truth, especially when you already go to a lower-ranked school.


Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


Yeah, you should drop out.

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zhenders

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby zhenders » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:09 am

Law school is high risk. It’s an enormous amount of money, and good employment is far from guaranteed. The lower ranked the school, the less likely it is one will get great (or good, or any) employment out of it.

Bs are not dreaded everywhere. At most top law schools, Bs are “meh” to most students: not bad; not good. But that’s because at t14 schools, a B transcript is likely median, and median means a good chance of great employment, and a great chance at decent employment.

If you ended up at Kent or Loyola (and I have friends at or from both schools who have had a variety of experiences), the facts are that As give you an okay shot at great employment and a good shot at good employment, whereas Bs give you an okay-to-good shot at some employment.

People treat Bs as bad because school is expensive and they really really matter. If they don’t matter as much for you, then if your goal is employment post grad, LS is probably a poor fit for you.

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:31 am

I'm actually in the "drop out" camp, but that's because I was apparently in the "don't go at all" camp back when you told everyone that you were going to law school because you couldn't figure out anything better to do.

Shocking. Everyone who warned you about this was right. But I don't know why anyone expects you to start listening to advice now.

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Wild Card

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby Wild Card » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:12 am

The_Lorax wrote:The reason people treat grades like B's so poorly is because most of the better schools' curves are quite high meaning they don't give that many grades below that.

As for why the focus on grades? Because they open doors, plain and simple. Law school is a professional school where presumably the goal is employment, and better grades will simply get you more (and better) interviews.


Yes, at Columbia and NYU, the bottom half of each class gets a B. It's a failing grade because it's the lowest grade that one can reasonably get.

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:26 am

rzzza wrote:This is the first time in my life where I realized a B is actually considered a bad grade :roll: law school, what a bad joke

I've never obsessed about my grades, I've never been the type of student that got straight A's (graduated undergrad with a 3.4), but I've always worked hard and tried to enjoy myself during the learning process. I've always viewed education as a personal journey, not a competition.

Just finished up my fall semester. A- in legal writing, C+ in CivPro and C+ in Property. Don't know what I got in Torts yet. The way people in this field talk, a B is basically like an F and you should kill yourself if you get one. How does anyone stand this type of lunacy? I was told law school would be hard but I thought they meant the work would be intellectually challenging, not that the system was set up for people to feel like failures all the time if they don't pull straight A's right out the gate.

madness, bloody madness!

Why is this a revelation now? Why did you not figure this out before you started?

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby AaronCarter » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:03 am

rzzza wrote:This is the first time in my life where I realized a B is actually considered a bad grade :roll: law school, what a bad joke

I've never obsessed about my grades, I've never been the type of student that got straight A's (graduated undergrad with a 3.4), but I've always worked hard and tried to enjoy myself during the learning process. I've always viewed education as a personal journey, not a competition.

Just finished up my fall semester. A- in legal writing, C+ in CivPro and C+ in Property. Don't know what I got in Torts yet. The way people in this field talk, a B is basically like an F and you should kill yourself if you get one. How does anyone stand this type of lunacy? I was told law school would be hard but I thought they meant the work would be intellectually challenging, not that the system was set up for people to feel like failures all the time if they don't pull straight A's right out the gate.

madness, bloody madness!



Did you end up and NIU??

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby jacketyellow » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:I'm actually in the "drop out" camp, but that's because I was apparently in the "don't go at all" camp back when you told everyone that you were going to law school because you couldn't figure out anything better to do.

Shocking. Everyone who warned you about this was right. But I don't know why anyone expects you to start listening to advice now.


Same here. We argued with him for days about Loyola and Chicago-Kent, and he still went! Now, he has bad grades at one of the worst law schools in the United States, and we're supposed to tell him to stay at that school? Dude, just drop out. It's no use spending all this money because you have nothing else to do when you likely won't even work as a lawyer after graduation.

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Prudence

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby Prudence » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:24 pm

rzzza wrote:
Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I just wanted to add that it was the Japanese in Pearl Harbor lmao, not the germans (even though the countries were on the same side in WWII)

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TooMuchTuna

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby TooMuchTuna » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:42 pm

Prudence wrote:
rzzza wrote:
Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I just wanted to add that it was the Japanese in Pearl Harbor lmao, not the germans (even though the countries were on the same side in WWII)


OP was (presumably) loosely quoting Animal House.
Last edited by TooMuchTuna on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby WarriorPoet » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:43 pm

Prudence wrote:
rzzza wrote:
Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I just wanted to add that it was the Japanese in Pearl Harbor lmao, not the germans (even though the countries were on the same side in WWII)


Animal House reference. If you haven’t seen it, take part of the break to educate yourself on a classic piece of American cinema. Everything these days is just a remake or a sequel from when movies were actually good anyway.

Speaking of cinema, OP’s saga over the last year is like one of those horror movies where you keep yelling at the characters not to go into the creepy basement but they do anyway.

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Prudence

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby Prudence » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:49 pm

WarriorPoet wrote:
Prudence wrote:
rzzza wrote:
Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I just wanted to add that it was the Japanese in Pearl Harbor lmao, not the germans (even though the countries were on the same side in WWII)


Animal House reference. If you haven’t seen it, take part of the break to educate yourself on a classic piece of American cinema. Everything these days is just a remake or a sequel from when movies were actually good anyway.

Speaking of cinema, OP’s saga over the last year is like one of those horror movies where you keep yelling at the characters not to go into the creepy basement but they do anyway.


Actually I have seen it(didn’t catch the reference) Honestly I was doubting OP reading this thread tbh

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pancakes3

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:02 pm

everyone loves a good pile on.

albanach

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby albanach » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:23 pm

Wild Card wrote:
The_Lorax wrote:The reason people treat grades like B's so poorly is because most of the better schools' curves are quite high meaning they don't give that many grades below that.

As for why the focus on grades? Because they open doors, plain and simple. Law school is a professional school where presumably the goal is employment, and better grades will simply get you more (and better) interviews.


Yes, at Columbia and NYU, the bottom half of each class gets a B. It's a failing grade because it's the lowest grade that one can reasonably get.


So what's important to understand OP's situation is to know where the school curves to. Do they have a B median - in which case a good torts grade could, according to the post, bring OP out near median. In that case, grades alone probably don't call for dropping out. I think Akron Law used to curve the 1L class to a B-. If OP were at a school like that, they could already be performing reasonably when compared to their classmates.

If the school curves to a B+, then it's a (slightly) different story. Again, a decent Torts grade would mean there's something to work with. If OP is at a well-ranked school where almost everyone will get a job, then it could still be salvageable. If they're anywhere outside the T-14, then prospects are much worse.

Finally if, after a semester of tuition and hopefully an opportunity to witness the practice of law through some pro-bono, OP still doesn't know why they want to be a lawyer then absolutely, dropping out should be seriously considered.

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:28 pm

rzzza wrote:
jacketyellow wrote:
mcmand wrote:I recognized your username. All I have to do is click your post history to see it all.

Outline early (or outline as you go through the term), and do practice exams as you said you would, even if open note. You have to flex your legal analysis muscles in order to improve.


Actually, man, just drop out. Yeah, yeah, I'm the bad guy, but no one is telling you the truth, especially when you already go to a lower-ranked school.


Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


if this wasn't a very clever joke, you should definitely drop out because the legal field doesn't need anyone this staggeringly dumb.

ETA: looks like it was a joke. Feel free to stay in law school. You have my personal permission.

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Re: law school is already annoying the hell out of me and I'm only halfway through 1L

Postby nerd1 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:26 pm

rzzza wrote:
jacketyellow wrote:
mcmand wrote:I recognized your username. All I have to do is click your post history to see it all.

Outline early (or outline as you go through the term), and do practice exams as you said you would, even if open note. You have to flex your legal analysis muscles in order to improve.


Actually, man, just drop out. Yeah, yeah, I'm the bad guy, but no one is telling you the truth, especially when you already go to a lower-ranked school.


Did America surrender when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


Reading this made me come to the conclusion that you probably should drop out.
Incorrectly knowing a historical event is okay. People make mistakes. But the whole set of posts you wrote gives off the impression that it is your attitude that's hindering your learning process. When you do not achieve your desired goal in a game, instead of blaming the game, accept that it is you that's wrong and work on your own errors (lack of preparation for example). You cannot change the game. If you really cannot change yourself to adapt to the game, you should exit the game.



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