1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

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ggocat
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby ggocat » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:59 am

rzzza wrote:Why not several exams spaced out during the course like they do in undergrad? Wouldn't that be more helpful for students to compartmentalize what they learn and have a better hope of actually retaining the information? Is this something that is done by necessity because there's too much material to cover, or is it a purposeful approach they use to weed out the weak? I just don't get it.

Piggybacking on what lavarman84 said.

Learning "stuff" is necessary for law school but not the purpose of law school. The purpose is to make you be able to recognize that you need to know something--i.e., spotting issues. Most law jobs don't require that you know everything off the top of your head, but they require that you be able to spot a problem and look up the possible answers. Some law school exams are open-notes for this reason.

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star fox
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby star fox » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:26 pm

Channel your anxiety into some E&Es for the topics you've already completed. Start with the class where you're the most confused.

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BulletTooth
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby BulletTooth » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:57 pm

If you're feeling overwhelmed, I would recommend reading supplements before you dive into the cases. There were classes that I was in where I could spend 30 minutes trying to figure out a case, or I could read a supplement for 5 minutes and then skim the case for 5 minutes, knowing what the key takeaway is based on the supplement. It may seem counterintuitive, but I think starting with supplements could save you tons of time in the long run. All depends on your learning style.

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kellyfrost
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:21 am

I thought this was a good quote from Professor Paula Franzesez. She posted this on her Quora page in response to a question:

This is an important moment for lawyers and law students. In this time of rollbacks to essential civil liberties, lawyers are the rule of reason’s best defense. We are trained to speak truth to power in ways that advance the aims of progress, assure constitutional safeguards, and protect against government over-reaching. We are afforded the stature and access to power that can effectively champion the underdog, the forgotten, and the left behind.

There is an art and science to “thinking like a lawyer” and it is taught effectively only in law school. I serve on boards in the public and private sectors that are comprised of lawyers and non-lawyers, and most of the difficult problem-solving is accomplished by the lawyers. I am thankful every day for the skill set that law school gave me to navigate an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Reinhold Niebuhr was correct when he observed, “Love is the motive, justice is the instrument.” We are justice’s emissaries. Our work can be the antidote to hopelessness and restore agency to communities and constituencies that for too long have been marginalized and worse. The pernicious effects of de jure discrimination continue to be felt. There is a veritable chasm between what is and what ought to be in contexts that include the criminal justice system, housing, education, immigration, civil rights and civil liberties. As lawyers, we are trained and empowered to narrow that gap.

Lawyers achieve success in accord with traditional metrics. What is more, by making people’s lives a little easier, we achieve significance, creating legacies that transcend our own lifetimes.

I do the work of justice to vindicate the legacy and sacrifice of those on whose shoulders I stand. I do it because in these fraught times and in a world preoccupied with status, the power of a good education gives me the status that affords access to power. I know that this power can we wielded wisely, with both technique and compassion. Indeed, I have learned that one cannot be reliably sustained without the other.

I am grateful to serve the aims of social justice. I do that work as much for my sake as for the sake of the people who are counting on my expertise to make their burdens a bit lighter. We are connected by a thousand invisible threads to the whole of humanity. What we do for others we do for ourselves.

The pursuit of equality demands resilience and fortitude. It builds muscle. Often we push that boulder up the mountain only to have it tumble down. At those moments I remain mindful of Camus' choice to interpret the myth of Sisyphus through a lens of hope. Camus writes that while some might see only futility in the task at hand, he chooses instead to see the nobility of the very effort. He notes,

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Optimism is a daily choice. So is love. I do the work of the law so that justice might become "love made visible."

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Ferrisjso
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:42 pm

rzzza wrote:It seems like the environment is such that, instead of striving for students to soak in the information, the approach is to toss as much stuff at the students as possible as quickly as possible so that they become confused, stressed and at best retain maybe half of everything they're supposed to know. Why do they do it this way? For example, I barely have time to understand future interests before we're onto perpetuities. I think only my torts class moves at what I would call a reasonable pace.

I also don't understand the rationale for having only one major exam at the end of the semester. Why not several exams spaced out during the course like they do in undergrad? Wouldn't that be more helpful for students to compartmentalize what they learn and have a better hope of actually retaining the information?

Is this something that is done by necessity because there's too much material to cover, or is it a purposeful approach they use to weed out the weak? I just don't get it.


I feel you bro, I love soaking in that info. I also am suffering from the lack of small assignments to use as benchmarks like I did in UG. The rationale I think is to rank job applicants off of the same almost standardized shit regardless of school(aside from the top ones of course). If everyone's taking the same classes the ranking means more than in UG where grade inflation and deflation depending on major is a huge thing.

That being said, this was really predictable and law school's teaching style was far from a secret. You had to have some idea of what was coming going in.

Ironically enough my Torts class is also the only one that goes at a reasonable pace(and the result is we haven't gone over an entire reading in class the whole semester).

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Wild Card
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby Wild Card » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:41 pm

kellyfrost wrote:I thought this was a good quote from Professor Paula Franzesez. She posted this on her Quora page in response to a question:

This is an important moment for lawyers and law students. In this time of rollbacks to essential civil liberties, lawyers are the rule of reason’s best defense. We are trained to speak truth to power in ways that advance the aims of progress, assure constitutional safeguards, and protect against government over-reaching. We are afforded the stature and access to power that can effectively champion the underdog, the forgotten, and the left behind.

There is an art and science to “thinking like a lawyer” and it is taught effectively only in law school. I serve on boards in the public and private sectors that are comprised of lawyers and non-lawyers, and most of the difficult problem-solving is accomplished by the lawyers. I am thankful every day for the skill set that law school gave me to navigate an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Reinhold Niebuhr was correct when he observed, “Love is the motive, justice is the instrument.” We are justice’s emissaries. Our work can be the antidote to hopelessness and restore agency to communities and constituencies that for too long have been marginalized and worse. The pernicious effects of de jure discrimination continue to be felt. There is a veritable chasm between what is and what ought to be in contexts that include the criminal justice system, housing, education, immigration, civil rights and civil liberties. As lawyers, we are trained and empowered to narrow that gap.

Lawyers achieve success in accord with traditional metrics. What is more, by making people’s lives a little easier, we achieve significance, creating legacies that transcend our own lifetimes.

I do the work of justice to vindicate the legacy and sacrifice of those on whose shoulders I stand. I do it because in these fraught times and in a world preoccupied with status, the power of a good education gives me the status that affords access to power. I know that this power can we wielded wisely, with both technique and compassion. Indeed, I have learned that one cannot be reliably sustained without the other.

I am grateful to serve the aims of social justice. I do that work as much for my sake as for the sake of the people who are counting on my expertise to make their burdens a bit lighter. We are connected by a thousand invisible threads to the whole of humanity. What we do for others we do for ourselves.

The pursuit of equality demands resilience and fortitude. It builds muscle. Often we push that boulder up the mountain only to have it tumble down. At those moments I remain mindful of Camus' choice to interpret the myth of Sisyphus through a lens of hope. Camus writes that while some might see only futility in the task at hand, he chooses instead to see the nobility of the very effort. He notes,

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Optimism is a daily choice. So is love. I do the work of the law so that justice might become "love made visible."


What the fuck is this shit? How can I do justice when I have no idea what the fuck is going on because of your incompetent teaching?

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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby mcmand » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:24 pm

rzzza wrote:
I honestly don't even have time for supplements, I'm swamped with just the main material we're supposed to read. I know they have some recommended material they want you to look at, I just don't know how anyone has the time for that.

The best I've managed as far as supplemental material so far is youtube videos. I've found them helpful but as far as actually doing the problems on an exam? I don't feel like I'm anywhere near ready. They don't give you enough time to practice the material that was covered before they're moving on to another topic, assigning reading for that topic, etc. It becomes just a game of playing catch up, forget actually understanding the material.


I have a feeling the barrier for you is understanding to what end all of this reading is for.

A lot of what you're learning is all about the application of law to facts. If reading the cases isn't helping you understand that, you should experiment with another way. A lot of people do practice exams for exam prep (which you should absolutely do), but maybe doing that right now, with your notes and the internet available, might help you get your head where it needs to be. The process of writing practice exam answers, with notes handy, helps the brain synthesize information more coherently. Get an outline for the class from a 2L or 3L and use that to help you write a few practice exam answers. Practice IRAC when you do it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRAC

Give it a shot. Whatever you're doing isn't working, so you might as well take an hour or two to try this or any of the other suggestions people are giving you.

ADDENDUM: Also, have you read this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=123699

I disagree with his discussion about case briefs (I did them all the way through 3L whenever I had material I struggled with), but it's still a lot of useful advice.

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kellyfrost
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby kellyfrost » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:22 pm

Wild Card wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I thought this was a good quote from Professor Paula Franzesez. She posted this on her Quora page in response to a question:

This is an important moment for lawyers and law students. In this time of rollbacks to essential civil liberties, lawyers are the rule of reason’s best defense. We are trained to speak truth to power in ways that advance the aims of progress, assure constitutional safeguards, and protect against government over-reaching. We are afforded the stature and access to power that can effectively champion the underdog, the forgotten, and the left behind.

There is an art and science to “thinking like a lawyer” and it is taught effectively only in law school. I serve on boards in the public and private sectors that are comprised of lawyers and non-lawyers, and most of the difficult problem-solving is accomplished by the lawyers. I am thankful every day for the skill set that law school gave me to navigate an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Reinhold Niebuhr was correct when he observed, “Love is the motive, justice is the instrument.” We are justice’s emissaries. Our work can be the antidote to hopelessness and restore agency to communities and constituencies that for too long have been marginalized and worse. The pernicious effects of de jure discrimination continue to be felt. There is a veritable chasm between what is and what ought to be in contexts that include the criminal justice system, housing, education, immigration, civil rights and civil liberties. As lawyers, we are trained and empowered to narrow that gap.

Lawyers achieve success in accord with traditional metrics. What is more, by making people’s lives a little easier, we achieve significance, creating legacies that transcend our own lifetimes.

I do the work of justice to vindicate the legacy and sacrifice of those on whose shoulders I stand. I do it because in these fraught times and in a world preoccupied with status, the power of a good education gives me the status that affords access to power. I know that this power can we wielded wisely, with both technique and compassion. Indeed, I have learned that one cannot be reliably sustained without the other.

I am grateful to serve the aims of social justice. I do that work as much for my sake as for the sake of the people who are counting on my expertise to make their burdens a bit lighter. We are connected by a thousand invisible threads to the whole of humanity. What we do for others we do for ourselves.

The pursuit of equality demands resilience and fortitude. It builds muscle. Often we push that boulder up the mountain only to have it tumble down. At those moments I remain mindful of Camus' choice to interpret the myth of Sisyphus through a lens of hope. Camus writes that while some might see only futility in the task at hand, he chooses instead to see the nobility of the very effort. He notes,

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Optimism is a daily choice. So is love. I do the work of the law so that justice might become "love made visible."


What the fuck is this shit? How can I do justice when I have no idea what the fuck is going on because of your incompetent teaching?


Re-read the quote. Let it sink in overnight as you reflect on it.

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crumb cake
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby crumb cake » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:45 pm

kellyfrost wrote: Professor Paula Franzesez


Having flashbacks to her Barbri lectures...

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pancakes3
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:19 pm

unless the prof grades to a curve lower than mandatory or gives out D's and F's, you can't fault the prof for grades.

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2807
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby 2807 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:48 pm

kellyfrost wrote:I thought this was a good quote from Professor Paula Franzesez. She posted this on her Quora page in response to a question:

This is an important moment for lawyers and law students. In this time of rollbacks to essential civil liberties, lawyers are the rule of reason’s best defense. We are trained to speak truth to power in ways that advance the aims of progress, assure constitutional safeguards, and protect against government over-reaching. We are afforded the stature and access to power that can effectively champion the underdog, the forgotten, and the left behind.

There is an art and science to “thinking like a lawyer” and it is taught effectively only in law school. I serve on boards in the public and private sectors that are comprised of lawyers and non-lawyers, and most of the difficult problem-solving is accomplished by the lawyers. I am thankful every day for the skill set that law school gave me to navigate an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Reinhold Niebuhr was correct when he observed, “Love is the motive, justice is the instrument.” We are justice’s emissaries. Our work can be the antidote to hopelessness and restore agency to communities and constituencies that for too long have been marginalized and worse. The pernicious effects of de jure discrimination continue to be felt. There is a veritable chasm between what is and what ought to be in contexts that include the criminal justice system, housing, education, immigration, civil rights and civil liberties. As lawyers, we are trained and empowered to narrow that gap.

Lawyers achieve success in accord with traditional metrics. What is more, by making people’s lives a little easier, we achieve significance, creating legacies that transcend our own lifetimes.

I do the work of justice to vindicate the legacy and sacrifice of those on whose shoulders I stand. I do it because in these fraught times and in a world preoccupied with status, the power of a good education gives me the status that affords access to power. I know that this power can we wielded wisely, with both technique and compassion. Indeed, I have learned that one cannot be reliably sustained without the other.

I am grateful to serve the aims of social justice. I do that work as much for my sake as for the sake of the people who are counting on my expertise to make their burdens a bit lighter. We are connected by a thousand invisible threads to the whole of humanity. What we do for others we do for ourselves.

The pursuit of equality demands resilience and fortitude. It builds muscle. Often we push that boulder up the mountain only to have it tumble down. At those moments I remain mindful of Camus' choice to interpret the myth of Sisyphus through a lens of hope. Camus writes that while some might see only futility in the task at hand, he chooses instead to see the nobility of the very effort. He notes,

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Optimism is a daily choice. So is love. I do the work of the law so that justice might become "love made visible."


Run, don’t walk, from this mindset. There is no surprise that an “academic” living in a bubble, repeating what they’re told, with no context earned from experience, chooses to repeat it again in an attempt to perpetuate their utopian nonsense and validate their own mindless existence.

Learn the law, then go out and get experience.
These people prey on young folks with none.

Read more Thomas Sowell.
Balance what you’re told with the countering view.
Where you land is up to you.
Make sure those telling you differently know this.
Again, read more Thomas Sowell.

Repeat after me: “I will not be programmed.”
Repeat.
Grow.

Onward.

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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:06 am

2807 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I thought this was a good quote from Professor Paula Franzesez. She posted this on her Quora page in response to a question:

This is an important moment for lawyers and law students. In this time of rollbacks to essential civil liberties, lawyers are the rule of reason’s best defense. We are trained to speak truth to power in ways that advance the aims of progress, assure constitutional safeguards, and protect against government over-reaching. We are afforded the stature and access to power that can effectively champion the underdog, the forgotten, and the left behind.

There is an art and science to “thinking like a lawyer” and it is taught effectively only in law school. I serve on boards in the public and private sectors that are comprised of lawyers and non-lawyers, and most of the difficult problem-solving is accomplished by the lawyers. I am thankful every day for the skill set that law school gave me to navigate an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Reinhold Niebuhr was correct when he observed, “Love is the motive, justice is the instrument.” We are justice’s emissaries. Our work can be the antidote to hopelessness and restore agency to communities and constituencies that for too long have been marginalized and worse. The pernicious effects of de jure discrimination continue to be felt. There is a veritable chasm between what is and what ought to be in contexts that include the criminal justice system, housing, education, immigration, civil rights and civil liberties. As lawyers, we are trained and empowered to narrow that gap.

Lawyers achieve success in accord with traditional metrics. What is more, by making people’s lives a little easier, we achieve significance, creating legacies that transcend our own lifetimes.

I do the work of justice to vindicate the legacy and sacrifice of those on whose shoulders I stand. I do it because in these fraught times and in a world preoccupied with status, the power of a good education gives me the status that affords access to power. I know that this power can we wielded wisely, with both technique and compassion. Indeed, I have learned that one cannot be reliably sustained without the other.

I am grateful to serve the aims of social justice. I do that work as much for my sake as for the sake of the people who are counting on my expertise to make their burdens a bit lighter. We are connected by a thousand invisible threads to the whole of humanity. What we do for others we do for ourselves.

The pursuit of equality demands resilience and fortitude. It builds muscle. Often we push that boulder up the mountain only to have it tumble down. At those moments I remain mindful of Camus' choice to interpret the myth of Sisyphus through a lens of hope. Camus writes that while some might see only futility in the task at hand, he chooses instead to see the nobility of the very effort. He notes,

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Optimism is a daily choice. So is love. I do the work of the law so that justice might become "love made visible."


Run, don’t walk, from this mindset. There is no surprise that an “academic” living in a bubble, repeating what they’re told, with no context earned from experience, chooses to repeat it again in an attempt to perpetuate their utopian nonsense and validate their own mindless existence.

Learn the law, then go out and get experience.
These people prey on young folks with none.

Read more Thomas Sowell.
Balance what you’re told with the countering view.
Where you land is up to you.
Make sure those telling you differently know this.
Again, read more Thomas Sowell.

Repeat after me: “I will not be programmed.”
Repeat.
Grow.

Onward.


Didn’t read quote, and not going to. Just want to point out that this is the woman that openly — and strangely — tells hundreds of students every year that her grandpa or dad or someone invented freakin penne alla vodka. Her barbri lecture still haunts me.

cavalier1138
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:41 am

Maybe we can make this thread a repository for every dumb "inspirational" quotation people can come up with for struggling students. Then we can keep that shit out of threads where the OP could use real help.

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kellyfrost
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby kellyfrost » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:03 am

RaceJudicata wrote:
2807 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:I thought this was a good quote from Professor Paula Franzesez. She posted this on her Quora page in response to a question:

This is an important moment for lawyers and law students. In this time of rollbacks to essential civil liberties, lawyers are the rule of reason’s best defense. We are trained to speak truth to power in ways that advance the aims of progress, assure constitutional safeguards, and protect against government over-reaching. We are afforded the stature and access to power that can effectively champion the underdog, the forgotten, and the left behind.

There is an art and science to “thinking like a lawyer” and it is taught effectively only in law school. I serve on boards in the public and private sectors that are comprised of lawyers and non-lawyers, and most of the difficult problem-solving is accomplished by the lawyers. I am thankful every day for the skill set that law school gave me to navigate an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Reinhold Niebuhr was correct when he observed, “Love is the motive, justice is the instrument.” We are justice’s emissaries. Our work can be the antidote to hopelessness and restore agency to communities and constituencies that for too long have been marginalized and worse. The pernicious effects of de jure discrimination continue to be felt. There is a veritable chasm between what is and what ought to be in contexts that include the criminal justice system, housing, education, immigration, civil rights and civil liberties. As lawyers, we are trained and empowered to narrow that gap.

Lawyers achieve success in accord with traditional metrics. What is more, by making people’s lives a little easier, we achieve significance, creating legacies that transcend our own lifetimes.

I do the work of justice to vindicate the legacy and sacrifice of those on whose shoulders I stand. I do it because in these fraught times and in a world preoccupied with status, the power of a good education gives me the status that affords access to power. I know that this power can we wielded wisely, with both technique and compassion. Indeed, I have learned that one cannot be reliably sustained without the other.

I am grateful to serve the aims of social justice. I do that work as much for my sake as for the sake of the people who are counting on my expertise to make their burdens a bit lighter. We are connected by a thousand invisible threads to the whole of humanity. What we do for others we do for ourselves.

The pursuit of equality demands resilience and fortitude. It builds muscle. Often we push that boulder up the mountain only to have it tumble down. At those moments I remain mindful of Camus' choice to interpret the myth of Sisyphus through a lens of hope. Camus writes that while some might see only futility in the task at hand, he chooses instead to see the nobility of the very effort. He notes,

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Optimism is a daily choice. So is love. I do the work of the law so that justice might become "love made visible."


Run, don’t walk, from this mindset. There is no surprise that an “academic” living in a bubble, repeating what they’re told, with no context earned from experience, chooses to repeat it again in an attempt to perpetuate their utopian nonsense and validate their own mindless existence.

Learn the law, then go out and get experience.
These people prey on young folks with none.

Read more Thomas Sowell.
Balance what you’re told with the countering view.
Where you land is up to you.
Make sure those telling you differently know this.
Again, read more Thomas Sowell.

Repeat after me: “I will not be programmed.”
Repeat.
Grow.

Onward.


Didn’t read quote, and not going to. Just want to point out that this is the woman that openly — and strangely — tells hundreds of students every year that her grandpa or dad or someone invented freakin penne alla vodka. Her barbri lecture still haunts me.


Love her and her Barbri lecture. I don’t know what penne alla vodka is, and not going to look it up.

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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby Effingham » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:21 am

crumb cake wrote:
kellyfrost wrote: Professor Paula Franzesez


Having flashbacks to her Barbri lectures...


What a nightmare, had to skip over that whole lectute section.

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kellyfrost
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby kellyfrost » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:24 am

Effingham wrote:
crumb cake wrote:
kellyfrost wrote: Professor Paula Franzesez


Having flashbacks to her Barbri lectures...


What a nightmare, had to skip over that whole lectute section.


She is a very talented lecturer, teacher, and writer. She is smoking hot too.

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njdevils2626
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby njdevils2626 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:01 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
Effingham wrote:
crumb cake wrote:
kellyfrost wrote: Professor Paula Franzesez


Having flashbacks to her Barbri lectures...


What a nightmare, had to skip over that whole lectute section.


She is a very talented lecturer, teacher, and writer. She is smoking hot too.


She was among the worst Barbri lecturers they had. I will grant you that she is fairly attractive, though

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kellyfrost
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby kellyfrost » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:50 pm

njdevils2626 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
Effingham wrote:
crumb cake wrote:
kellyfrost wrote: Professor Paula Franzesez


Having flashbacks to her Barbri lectures...


What a nightmare, had to skip over that whole lectute section.


She is a very talented lecturer, teacher, and writer. She is smoking hot too.


She was among the worst Barbri lecturers they had. I will grant you that she is fairly attractive, though


We will agree she is easy on the eyes.

But honestly I thought she did a good job lecturing. I wished she would have done maybe one or two more bar topics to be honest.

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pancakes3
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:54 pm

i thought she was decent at property but i got nothing out of her commercial paper/negotiable instruments lecture.

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hailcaesar34
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby hailcaesar34 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:48 pm

njdevils2626 wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
Effingham wrote:
crumb cake wrote:
kellyfrost wrote: Professor Paula Franzesez


Having flashbacks to her Barbri lectures...


What a nightmare, had to skip over that whole lectute section.


She is a very talented lecturer, teacher, and writer. She is smoking hot too.


She was among the worst Barbri lecturers they had. I will grant you that she is fairly attractive, though

+1
Though she lied about the whole penne alla vodka which is NAGL.

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SilvermanBarPrep
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:38 am

Get some supplements. I used to think that maybe at some point I'd realize that the disdain that some professors have for supplements was actually more accurate than I had assumed. ButI haven't. Supplements are very helpful when used appropriately. You definitely want to continue to read the assigned cases because in that sense you are learning the skills that will serve you in your career. It's crazy to skip that; it would be like trying to learn how to play chess but deciding you weren't going to practice the game.

But just in terms of the very specific goal of scoring well on a final exam, get some supplements. Once you've done your reading, read the supplements to ensure that you took from each case what the case was intended to teach. The cases are dense and contain a lot of information that you do not need. The supplements highlight what's important.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:09 pm

To respond to the "Law school isn't designed to teach you anything of value--its whole purpose is to rank you on a curve," I'd just like to point out Civ Pro and Evidence are actually paramount if you want to be a litigator. The information is also somewhat cumulative. Con Law overlaps with a ton of stuff (Crim, Privacy, etc.). There's a huge overlap between Admin and Fed Courts (both of which also tie into Con Law).

Will you ever need to utter the words "commerce clause" in practice? No, but you might come across constitutional issues at some point (if you litigate or do PI work), and being able to navigate con law case law is helpful.

If you do corp, yeah law school doesn't prepare you for corporate work at all.

Also, 1L isn't really that much information. It's a lot less than Bio in UG. I hate rote memorization, and never felt the need to rote memorize anything, even for closed exams.

Most doctors would fail UG organic chemistry exams if they took them cold, but you don't hear anybody claiming that o-chem is unnecessary. It's all foundation stuff.

My general reading and writing have also improved substantially since starting law school, but maybe I just started with a super low baseline.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 1L dismayed with the teaching style/pace of law school

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:01 pm

Of course the content in 1L is relevant to being a lawyer (some of it, for some lawyers). My point was that the methods used aren't about teaching it to students the most effectively; the methods use make it easiest to rank students. You are expected to learn the content and the content is relevant, but that doesn't mean law school uses the best pedagogical practices to teach that content.




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