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abcxyz_abc
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Postby abcxyz_abc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:48 pm

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Last edited by abcxyz_abc on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby SmokeytheBear » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:53 pm

Suspension or expulsion aside, you're going to have a hard time passing character and fitness for bar admission.

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BasilHallward
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby BasilHallward » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:01 pm

What was the nature and extent of the violation? It must be pretty egregious for OP not to qualify it.

abcxyz_abc
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby abcxyz_abc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:06 pm

BasilHallward wrote:What was the nature and extent of the violation? It must be pretty egregious for OP not to qualify it.



Tbh, at this point, I don't even want to think about the bar admission part. The whole possibility of being suspended or even expelled is what worries me.

To answer your question: I flat out lied about one extracurricular experience on my resume (that thing didn't happen). I don't think that had a substantial impact on my employment offers, but it was after all a lie.

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crumb cake
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby crumb cake » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:14 pm

C&F is a nightmare even without something like this to deal with. If you're a 1L I would honestly just cut your losses and try something else.

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BasilHallward
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby BasilHallward » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:18 pm

abcxyz_abc wrote:
BasilHallward wrote:What was the nature and extent of the violation? It must be pretty egregious for OP not to qualify it.



Tbh, at this point, I don't even want to think about the bar admission part. The whole possibility of being suspended or even expelled is what worries me.

To answer your question: I flat out lied about one extracurricular experience on my resume (that thing didn't happen). I don't think that had a substantial impact on my employment offers, but it was after all a lie.


Damn. I would feel bad for you, but you should know how to "color" things that actually occurred in reality. Don't tell me that you simply put something akin to "Meals on Wheels, XYZ County" and that did not happen. That's just idiotic, and the payoff is soooo small or nonexistent. Sorry for railing, but yeah, you're screwed.


Edit: Address question

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:22 pm

Not sure any of us can tell you. Someone in my class lied in an application (in his cover letter). They weren't expelled, but had to write to the employer confessing their sin, and I think they may have been banned from OCI? (Not sure, and for context, not many people got jobs through OCI at my school so it's not like getting banned from OCI at CCN or something. I don't know if it there was any other penalty like something on their transcript though.) They're currently practicing (in their own firm though) so they got admitted at some point, but their first gigs out of law school were non-practicing.

Also knew someone who plagiarized their LR note. They didn't get expelled, I don't think. (The really really weird thing is that according to their LinkedIn they graduated from a totally different law school? on the same timeline? except that they were obviously a 2L when they plagiarized? NO idea what's up with that.) In any case, they're not practicing law.

AspiringAspirant
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby AspiringAspirant » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:28 pm

I'm not sure if expulsion is on the horizon for you, but I'm sure that something severe is coming. In addition to bracing for the worst, I hope you take time to evaluate the mental state you were in that had you thinking this lie was worth it. Law school (and the legal profession, generally) has a way of warping ppl's minds, and regardless of what punishment you get, you'll want to get your head straight if you're going to have a positive career.

abcxyz_abc
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby abcxyz_abc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:28 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not sure any of us can tell you. Someone in my class lied in an application (in his cover letter). They weren't expelled, but had to write to the employer confessing their sin, and I think they may have been banned from OCI? (Not sure, and for context, not many people got jobs through OCI at my school so it's not like getting banned from OCI at CCN or something. I don't know if it there was any other penalty like something on their transcript though.) They're currently practicing (in their own firm though) so they got admitted at some point, but their first gigs out of law school were non-practicing.

Also knew someone who plagiarized their LR note. They didn't get expelled, I don't think. (The really really weird thing is that according to their LinkedIn they graduated from a totally different law school? on the same timeline? except that they were obviously a 2L when they plagiarized? NO idea what's up with that.) In any case, they're not practicing law.


Thanks for the reply. Honestly, I am not super keen on practicing anyway - this would just make things easier. I know I completely fucked it up but I guess my only concern right now is that I'm not gonna be able to finish school. The worst thing is that I'm a 3L already - putting 2 years worth of work down the drain is too much for me to handle atm. I'd be so grateful if I don't get expelled - writing letters/getting reprimand and all that is at least something I can mentally handle.

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Kummel
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby Kummel » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:29 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not sure any of us can tell you. Someone in my class lied in an application (in his cover letter). They weren't expelled, but had to write to the employer confessing their sin, and I think they may have been banned from OCI? (Not sure, and for context, not many people got jobs through OCI at my school so it's not like getting banned from OCI at CCN or something. I don't know if it there was any other penalty like something on their transcript though.) They're currently practicing (in their own firm though) so they got admitted at some point, but their first gigs out of law school were non-practicing.

Also knew someone who plagiarized their LR note. They didn't get expelled, I don't think. (The really really weird thing is that according to their LinkedIn they graduated from a totally different law school? on the same timeline? except that they were obviously a 2L when they plagiarized? NO idea what's up with that.) In any case, they're not practicing law.



How does a school even find out about something like this or about OP's lie about extracurriculars

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:34 pm

Don't know about OP, obviously. In the case of the person who lied on their cover letter, IIRC they put a class rank on their cover letter, and my school hadn't given out class ranks yet. (It was spring of 1L year; you didn't get ranks till the end of the year, and the employer knew this.) There was also another specific thing that was an exaggeration of something rooted in a grain of reality, which the school uncovered once the employer told them about the rank and the school started investigating the letter. (Don't want to get into more details, sorry that's vague.)

abcxyz_abc
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby abcxyz_abc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:44 pm

AspiringAspirant wrote:I'm not sure if expulsion is on the horizon for you, but I'm sure that something severe is coming. In addition to bracing for the worst, I hope you take time to evaluate the mental state you were in that had you thinking this lie was worth it. Law school (and the legal profession, generally) has a way of warping ppl's minds, and regardless of what punishment you get, you'll want to get your head straight if you're going to have a positive career.


Thanks for the reply! Yeah.. I don't know what I was thinking. This has definitely served as a lesson. But really, at this point, I'm just wishing for something short of expulsion.

sanzgo
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby sanzgo » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:12 pm

expulsion is unlikely since you didn't lie on your resume for ls admission.

i think you'll be allowed to graduate on-time.

the real question is whether that's advisable but i understand that's not the question you're asking so i'll stop.

RaceJudicata
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:13 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not sure any of us can tell you. Someone in my class lied in an application (in his cover letter). They weren't expelled, but had to write to the employer confessing their sin, and I think they may have been banned from OCI? (Not sure, and for context, not many people got jobs through OCI at my school so it's not like getting banned from OCI at CCN or something. I don't know if it there was any other penalty like something on their transcript though.) They're currently practicing (in their own firm though) so they got admitted at some point, but their first gigs out of law school were non-practicing.

Also knew someone who plagiarized their LR note. They didn't get expelled, I don't think. (The really really weird thing is that according to their LinkedIn they graduated from a totally different law school? on the same timeline? except that they were obviously a 2L when they plagiarized? NO idea what's up with that.) In any case, they're not practicing law.



How does a school even find out about something like this or about OP's lie about extracurriculars


My thought also. Unless it was like "Law Review - Managing Editor" and guy or gal wasn't on law review at all.

abcxyz_abc
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby abcxyz_abc » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:22 pm

I'm talking to the Dean this afternoon. Will expressing genuine remorse help me at all? I'm honestly extremely terrified. :cry:

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UBETutoring
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby UBETutoring » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:27 pm

OP, I have experience dealing with this kind of issue. Feel free to PM.

On the C&F front, this is going to be a hassle but is not necessarily damning. Relevant factors will include what exactly you lied about, the presence of mitigating circumstances, what the school concludes and how you got caught.

I don't know if I'd advise talking to the dean yet, because you need a strategic plan and this meeting will govern all future interactions.

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Tortious Conduct
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby Tortious Conduct » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:32 pm

AspiringAspirant wrote:I'm not sure if expulsion is on the horizon for you, but I'm sure that something severe is coming. In addition to bracing for the worst, I hope you take time to evaluate the mental state you were in that had you thinking this lie was worth it. Law school (and the legal profession, generally) has a way of warping ppl's minds, and regardless of what punishment you get, you'll want to get your head straight if you're going to have a positive career.



Really the most (and only) helpful comment I've read so far.

abcxyz_abc
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby abcxyz_abc » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:29 pm

Tortious Conduct wrote:
AspiringAspirant wrote:I'm not sure if expulsion is on the horizon for you, but I'm sure that something severe is coming. In addition to bracing for the worst, I hope you take time to evaluate the mental state you were in that had you thinking this lie was worth it. Law school (and the legal profession, generally) has a way of warping ppl's minds, and regardless of what punishment you get, you'll want to get your head straight if you're going to have a positive career.



Really the most (and only) helpful comment I've read so far.


I understand. If this could get taken care of, I'd definitely spend a lot of time thinking about this whole thing.

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UBETutoring
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby UBETutoring » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:43 pm

You're going to want to delete these posts right before your meeting.

The dean's primary interest will be in protecting the reputation and standing of the school. He also wants to uphold the integrity of the legal profession, and honor the polices upon which your school was founded. However, at the end of the day, he's thinking, "what's best for the company?" If this is widely known, then it's better for business to expel you because he can say, "We take ethics super seriously" whereas the latter makes whatever policy they have in place look like a joke. If it isn't widely known, then there's the human element and fact you're paying tuition.
Last edited by UBETutoring on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Expulsion for lying on resume?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:15 pm

UBETutoring wrote:As an FYI, I'm a licensed attorney and can provide professional help with C&F applications.

Except that you can't give legal advice or promote legal services on TLS.




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