What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

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Quick Shot

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What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Quick Shot » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:49 am

Yes, that Charlotte School of Law, the one that was recently put on probation and just had its funding cut by the Department of Education.

Background: Puerto Rican URM, abysmal 2.4 U/G GPA, 155 LSAT(took it cold). There were some personal circumstances that did not help my undergrad experience but ultimately the buck stops with me. I goofed off, never went to class, withdrew from classes, and generally did the bare minimum possible in order not to be expelled. To this day I'm still paying for those mistakes made many years ago.

I have two years of work experience working for a well-known financial corporation. At some point in late 2015 my mom was found to have a tumor on her colon. I resigned from my position in order to take care of her (and I was miserable at work) and took the LSAT on a whim. Law was always an interest I had in the back of my mind but I wasn't sure if I was willing to commit three more years of my life to a school. Flash-forward to the beginning of the summer and my job search is not going great.

As many have before me, I applied to the local school (I'm from Charlotte), which happened to be Charlotte School of Law. I read the poor reviews, but they enticed me with a full scholarship + small stipend. At this point I still wasn't committed to returning to school but I honestly had nothing better going on in my life and decided to give it a chance. I started researching into transfers and realized I had to wait until my fall grades to have even a remote idea on what was possible. While in school I realized that this was what I "wanted to do."

I haven't received all my grades back but I know I have a High Pass in a P/F class and I received an A- in my LRW class. Due to the atrocious 1L curve, only 10% of the class can receive an A/A-. I'm still waiting on my Torts and Civ Pro grades to come back. As usual, I have no idea how I did. My interests lie in PI/Gov. Ideally I think I would like to land a clerkship then move into the DOJ (although the local DA is the more likely outcome). As some of you may be aware, CSL constantly lied to its students and the public regarding its compliance with the ABA. It was placed on probation last month and this past Monday the Dept of Education revoked its access to federal funds. Without these funds I don't see how it's possible for the school to remain open.

After all that background information we finally get to the dilemma. What am I supposed to do? I'm so lost right now I don't know what to think. I don't have all my grades so I don't know where I ended up but that is pretty much irrelevant as no school will take a transfer with only one completed semester. I've used all the powers of Google and haven't found any answers. With three weeks until the start of the semester and no federal funds I don't see how this dumpster school is going to come up with a viable teach-out plan or any plan whatsoever.

So, once again, what can I do? Pray federal funding is extended, bust ass and once again pray for a good class ranking so I can transfer out? I'm not big on prayers. Can you drop out after your first semester, retake the LSAT, and enroll as a fresh 1L in Fall 2017? My research points to "no" but I don't know...

TL:DR I apologize for the long post.

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Johann

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Johann » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:08 am

I'd prolly recommend transferring

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:44 am

You really have two options:
1. Finish the year and transfer
or
2. Drop out now, retake the LSAT, and reapply to schools

I think you can drop out as long as you haven't completed all of 1L year, retake the LSAT, and reapply to other schools. But I'm not 100% certain. Somebody else here likely knows. So let's see if you can get confirmation of that.

If you can get strong grades, finishing the year and transferring isn't a bad option since you have a scholarship. But that's assuming the school stays open.

Unfortunately, your ideal goals are going to be extremely difficult to achieve from your current school. But if you do well, you can likely transfer into a T1 or T2, which makes those goals more realistic.(but still very difficult to achieve)

grades??

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby grades?? » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:24 am

I really don't think transferring is going to be an option. I just did a quick search of the ABA 509 reports and can't find a single student from Charlotte who was able to transfer to Duke, UNC, Campbell, NC Central, or Elon (just looked at the NC schools). Especially with the probation and the drastic measures DOE just took, I genuinely don't believe any school worth transferring to is going to now touch a student from your school. Sorry.

You should drop out. You said you are on a full scholarship and you live in Charlotte, so right now you really only have lost time, not money. If that is the case, you are in a much better position than many of your classmates. You need to immediately withdraw and chalk this up to a lesson learned.

You should really study for the lsat. You are an URM. If you can do well on the lsat, even with your gpa, you still might be able to pull UNC for example, which isn't too far away from Charlotte and also opens up many more doors than your current situation.

This isn't advice I give lightly but you need to drop out, retake the lsat and start over somewhere else. Transferring is not going to happen.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:44 am

Everyone's already articulated the reasoning, but just to pile on: drop out. You lose nothing by dropping out and you get a second chance to not attend a dumpster fire masquerading as a law school.

Drop out and do things right this time.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Future Ex-Engineer » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:56 am

drop out.
retake.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby foregetaboutdre » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:25 pm

Quick Shot wrote:Yes, that Charlotte School of Law, the one that was recently put on probation and just had its funding cut by the Department of Education.

Background: Puerto Rican URM, abysmal 2.4 U/G GPA, 155 LSAT(took it cold). There were some personal circumstances that did not help my undergrad experience but ultimately the buck stops with me. I goofed off, never went to class, withdrew from classes, and generally did the bare minimum possible in order not to be expelled. To this day I'm still paying for those mistakes made many years ago.

I have two years of work experience working for a well-known financial corporation. At some point in late 2015 my mom was found to have a tumor on her colon. I resigned from my position in order to take care of her (and I was miserable at work) and took the LSAT on a whim. Law was always an interest I had in the back of my mind but I wasn't sure if I was willing to commit three more years of my life to a school. Flash-forward to the beginning of the summer and my job search is not going great.

As many have before me, I applied to the local school (I'm from Charlotte), which happened to be Charlotte School of Law. I read the poor reviews, but they enticed me with a full scholarship + small stipend. At this point I still wasn't committed to returning to school but I honestly had nothing better going on in my life and decided to give it a chance. I started researching into transfers and realized I had to wait until my fall grades to have even a remote idea on what was possible. While in school I realized that this was what I "wanted to do."

I haven't received all my grades back but I know I have a High Pass in a P/F class and I received an A- in my LRW class. Due to the atrocious 1L curve, only 10% of the class can receive an A/A-. I'm still waiting on my Torts and Civ Pro grades to come back. As usual, I have no idea how I did. My interests lie in PI/Gov. Ideally I think I would like to land a clerkship then move into the DOJ (although the local DA is the more likely outcome). As some of you may be aware, CSL constantly lied to its students and the public regarding its compliance with the ABA. It was placed on probation last month and this past Monday the Dept of Education revoked its access to federal funds. Without these funds I don't see how it's possible for the school to remain open.

After all that background information we finally get to the dilemma. What am I supposed to do? I'm so lost right now I don't know what to think. I don't have all my grades so I don't know where I ended up but that is pretty much irrelevant as no school will take a transfer with only one completed semester. I've used all the powers of Google and haven't found any answers. With three weeks until the start of the semester and no federal funds I don't see how this dumpster school is going to come up with a viable teach-out plan or any plan whatsoever.

So, once again, what can I do? Pray federal funding is extended, bust ass and once again pray for a good class ranking so I can transfer out? I'm not big on prayers. Can you drop out after your first semester, retake the LSAT, and enroll as a fresh 1L in Fall 2017? My research points to "no" but I don't know...

TL:DR I apologize for the long post.



I'd echo the drop-out advice. However I would consider calling UNC,Emory, Vandy, or I guess the school's you're interested (after grades come out) and if they are good, regarding if they'd let you transfer/if you even have a shot of transferring before going scorched earth on a semester of law school.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Johann » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:09 pm

fwiw, any loans taken out for a school that is shut down are completely forgiven by the fed govt. people transfer from T4s all the time to T1 and T2 if they are at the top of the class. if you have unlimited time, sure maybe drop out and retake and reapply, but assuming you get decent grades, you can just skip the retake and reapply time and transfer to get where frankly you probably wont get even with a retake and reapply.

Duke and UVA are probably out of the question, but UNC is probably very doable considering you have a compelling transfer reason (school shutting down), good grades, and are URM. campbell would 100% take you but thats a dumb move; id try for a better school.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Quick Shot » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:14 pm

foregetaboutdre wrote:
Quick Shot wrote:Yes, that Charlotte School of Law, the one that was recently put on probation and just had its funding cut by the Department of Education.

Background: Puerto Rican URM, abysmal 2.4 U/G GPA, 155 LSAT(took it cold). There were some personal circumstances that did not help my undergrad experience but ultimately the buck stops with me. I goofed off, never went to class, withdrew from classes, and generally did the bare minimum possible in order not to be expelled. To this day I'm still paying for those mistakes made many years ago.

I have two years of work experience working for a well-known financial corporation. At some point in late 2015 my mom was found to have a tumor on her colon. I resigned from my position in order to take care of her (and I was miserable at work) and took the LSAT on a whim. Law was always an interest I had in the back of my mind but I wasn't sure if I was willing to commit three more years of my life to a school. Flash-forward to the beginning of the summer and my job search is not going great.

As many have before me, I applied to the local school (I'm from Charlotte), which happened to be Charlotte School of Law. I read the poor reviews, but they enticed me with a full scholarship + small stipend. At this point I still wasn't committed to returning to school but I honestly had nothing better going on in my life and decided to give it a chance. I started researching into transfers and realized I had to wait until my fall grades to have even a remote idea on what was possible. While in school I realized that this was what I "wanted to do."

I haven't received all my grades back but I know I have a High Pass in a P/F class and I received an A- in my LRW class. Due to the atrocious 1L curve, only 10% of the class can receive an A/A-. I'm still waiting on my Torts and Civ Pro grades to come back. As usual, I have no idea how I did. My interests lie in PI/Gov. Ideally I think I would like to land a clerkship then move into the DOJ (although the local DA is the more likely outcome). As some of you may be aware, CSL constantly lied to its students and the public regarding its compliance with the ABA. It was placed on probation last month and this past Monday the Dept of Education revoked its access to federal funds. Without these funds I don't see how it's possible for the school to remain open.

After all that background information we finally get to the dilemma. What am I supposed to do? I'm so lost right now I don't know what to think. I don't have all my grades so I don't know where I ended up but that is pretty much irrelevant as no school will take a transfer with only one completed semester. I've used all the powers of Google and haven't found any answers. With three weeks until the start of the semester and no federal funds I don't see how this dumpster school is going to come up with a viable teach-out plan or any plan whatsoever.

So, once again, what can I do? Pray federal funding is extended, bust ass and once again pray for a good class ranking so I can transfer out? I'm not big on prayers. Can you drop out after your first semester, retake the LSAT, and enroll as a fresh 1L in Fall 2017? My research points to "no" but I don't know...

TL:DR I apologize for the long post.



I'd echo the drop-out advice. However I would consider calling UNC,Emory, Vandy, or I guess the school's you're interested (after grades come out) and if they are good, regarding if they'd let you transfer/if you even have a shot of transferring before going scorched earth on a semester of law school.


Thanks and that's pretty much what I planned on doing. Right now I'm in a holding pattern waiting for my grades and waiting to see what the school says. I probably won't find anything out until after the new year so I can't contact the other schools until then either. In the meantime I have an LSAC fee waiver so I went ahead and registered for the LSAT. I'm about to take a diagnostic after lunch so we'll see how that goes.

grades??

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby grades?? » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:56 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:fwiw, any loans taken out for a school that is shut down are completely forgiven by the fed govt. people transfer from T4s all the time to T1 and T2 if they are at the top of the class. if you have unlimited time, sure maybe drop out and retake and reapply, but assuming you get decent grades, you can just skip the retake and reapply time and transfer to get where frankly you probably wont get even with a retake and reapply.

Duke and UVA are probably out of the question, but UNC is probably very doable considering you have a compelling transfer reason (school shutting down), good grades, and are URM. campbell would 100% take you but thats a dumb move; id try for a better school.


I generally agree with you, but looking at the 509's, UNC does not take any transfers from his dumpster fire of a law school. Even #1 from his class is going to have a hard time transferring. Plus, he would need to stay in the spring to get second semester grades. His transfer options look very bleak so it is 100% better considering he wont be able to transfer to a half decent school to just drop out now and spend the spring working and getting a great lsat score. Plus OP will have a decent advantage retaking some of his 1l law classes at a much better school.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Nonconsecutive » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:06 pm

Given the circumstances of your specific school, I see leaving, retaking, and submitting strong apps as a far better option for you. Your UGPA isn't going to help you, for sure, but a really strong LSAT coupled with strong apps + your personal status is going to put you in a vastly better place than sticking around and hoping a school takes you as a transfer.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Johann » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:49 pm

grades?? wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:fwiw, any loans taken out for a school that is shut down are completely forgiven by the fed govt. people transfer from T4s all the time to T1 and T2 if they are at the top of the class. if you have unlimited time, sure maybe drop out and retake and reapply, but assuming you get decent grades, you can just skip the retake and reapply time and transfer to get where frankly you probably wont get even with a retake and reapply.

Duke and UVA are probably out of the question, but UNC is probably very doable considering you have a compelling transfer reason (school shutting down), good grades, and are URM. campbell would 100% take you but thats a dumb move; id try for a better school.


I generally agree with you, but looking at the 509's, UNC does not take any transfers from his dumpster fire of a law school. Even #1 from his class is going to have a hard time transferring. Plus, he would need to stay in the spring to get second semester grades. His transfer options look very bleak so it is 100% better considering he wont be able to transfer to a half decent school to just drop out now and spend the spring working and getting a great lsat score. Plus OP will have a decent advantage retaking some of his 1l law classes at a much better school.


just because no one from charlotte transferred doesnt mean its not possible. looks like someone from campbell and nc central transferred with an average gpa of transfers at 3.0. if OP gets top 10%, hes almost def in and top 20% is still a good chance. if hes getting good grades, why give up a bird in the hand to retake the lsat when he doesnt know how hell do.

http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot ... of_15.html "something like 20% of the section I started in (2012) transferred to other law schools- Georgetown, Kentucky, and Dayton among others. In fact I think that most of the scholarship students who were not Charlotte residents transferred out after our 1L year." the transfer threads on this forum also show its possible to go from T4 to T1 and T2 pretty regularly.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Lettow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:23 pm

Agree with Johann. Maybe I missed it in his posts, but I didn't see OP say he disliked law school. It sounds like there's a chance OP did well, and if his GPA is high enough, then he should absolutely press forward with another law school if he enjoyed his first semester. People flatly suggesting OP drop out are drinking the TLS Kool-Aid a little too strongly.

Also, disagree with the poster who said #1 will have a hard time transferring. #1 at any law school is a major achievement, and firms and other law schools know this.

grades??

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby grades?? » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:36 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
grades?? wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:fwiw, any loans taken out for a school that is shut down are completely forgiven by the fed govt. people transfer from T4s all the time to T1 and T2 if they are at the top of the class. if you have unlimited time, sure maybe drop out and retake and reapply, but assuming you get decent grades, you can just skip the retake and reapply time and transfer to get where frankly you probably wont get even with a retake and reapply.

Duke and UVA are probably out of the question, but UNC is probably very doable considering you have a compelling transfer reason (school shutting down), good grades, and are URM. campbell would 100% take you but thats a dumb move; id try for a better school.


I generally agree with you, but looking at the 509's, UNC does not take any transfers from his dumpster fire of a law school. Even #1 from his class is going to have a hard time transferring. Plus, he would need to stay in the spring to get second semester grades. His transfer options look very bleak so it is 100% better considering he wont be able to transfer to a half decent school to just drop out now and spend the spring working and getting a great lsat score. Plus OP will have a decent advantage retaking some of his 1l law classes at a much better school.


just because no one from charlotte transferred doesnt mean its not possible. looks like someone from campbell and nc central transferred with an average gpa of transfers at 3.0. if OP gets top 10%, hes almost def in and top 20% is still a good chance. if hes getting good grades, why give up a bird in the hand to retake the lsat when he doesnt know how hell do.

http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot ... of_15.html "something like 20% of the section I started in (2012) transferred to other law schools- Georgetown, Kentucky, and Dayton among others. In fact I think that most of the scholarship students who were not Charlotte residents transferred out after our 1L year." the transfer threads on this forum also show its possible to go from T4 to T1 and T2 pretty regularly.


I generally agree with this, however three points just for argument sake (also consider that Charlotte is much worse than either Campbell or NCCU. Remember this is the first school in a long time to even have the DOE step in and cut off federal student loans. This is literally a predatory wasteland):

1) With the probation and now DOE thing against Charlotte, that school is going to have a mass exodus. It may not even survive till the end of the school year (purely my speculation but if there are no federal student loans, well thats an issue). So, it is probably a good assumption most/if not all of his class will try to transfer. Last year, the ABA 509 reported 30 something transfers out. Presumably the top 30 or so. Now, everyone is going to try to transfer, making the market oversaturated with TTTTTT transfers from this school. Also, take into consideration UNC for example. If they took a transfer every year from Charlotte, then okay, that person probably did well at a god awful law school. But now, there is no hiding that this school is nothing more than a dumpster fire and schools might consider that now when thinking about transfer students. They might not take as many Charlotte transfers because there is no hiding that most of the students originally admitted there will never pass a bar nor become lawyers (not saying this is OP, just more generally). So it is conceivable schools will no longer accept transfers (or take less transfers) in what will be a ridiculously oversaturated transfer class from his school. This is all speculative, but conceivably could happen.

2) If he does transfer, he will not get a scholarship, even if he gets in to say UNC. But, if he drops out and retakes, gets a 168 or something, with his URM status, he could be looking at a decent sized scholarship from UNC or Wake. If he transfers, he's paying 2 years at full cost. Whereas if he does well on the LSAT, he could be going to a much better school at a much lower cost versus the cost of 2 years at full price (assuming he even gets in).

3) The risk. There is legitimate risk Charlotte might not even be able to stay open past his 2nd semester. Also, there is the risk he actually doesn't place in the top 10% or so. To me, staying is much riskier than dropping out and starting over at a school that will have much less risk for his employment prospects.

Generally, I think dropping out is usually bad advice. Here, it is what OP needs to do. There is no good reason to stick it out another semester. OP, drop out asap. Study hard for the lsat. Go get some more work experience, even if that is waiting tables and studying. Go spend time with your family. Reapply in the fall with a much stronger lsat, and then go enjoy a UNC at a discount. This is all the less riskier option that staying, hoping your school stays open, getting fantastic grades, and then beating all your fellow classmates trying to transfer out.

Edit: OP, you can stick around until your fall grades come back. If you aren't in the top 10 in your class, there is literally zero reason to stay. But even then it is still risky give all the reasons cited above and because you will have to replicate the grades again.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:29 pm

Quick Shot wrote:...Charlotte School of Law...



...land a clerkship then move into the DOJ (although the local DA is the more likely outcome).


These two things are not congruous. You need to realign your expectations with your available opportunities. The path you have taken will not end in a career like that, basically no matter what.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:32 pm

Lettow wrote:Agree with Johann. Maybe I missed it in his posts, but I didn't see OP say he disliked law school. It sounds like there's a chance OP did well, and if his GPA is high enough, then he should absolutely press forward with another law school if he enjoyed his first semester. People flatly suggesting OP drop out are drinking the TLS Kool-Aid a little too strongly.

Also, disagree with the poster who said #1 will have a hard time transferring. #1 at any law school is a major achievement, and firms and other law schools know this.


It's not that #1 will have a hard time transferring at all, it's that even #1 will have a hard time transferring to a first tier law school.

I cannot overstate how deep the stain runs from attending a school like this in the legal profession.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Mr. Archer » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:49 pm

If you do take the drop out path, I don't think you should have your heart set on starting school again next fall. You've already settled for a bad school once. With dedicated studying, you could significantly improve your LSAT. I'm not sure you would reach your full potential if you took the February LSAT. You would also be applying at the end of the admissions cycle in order to start next fall. You'd presumably have a higher LSAT, URM status would help, but you would still have a really bad GPA. For the second shot at law school, you want to put yourself in a position not just to get into a good school but also to get a good scholarship. It would probably benefit you to apply early in the admissions cycle. Think about applying to jobs related to your former career and then applying for fall 2018.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:34 pm

Actually, OP, I'm going to say that dropping out is likely your best option. Get your grades back and then drop out.(but make sure that your scholarship doesn't have a stipulation that you have to pay the money back if you drop out)

The problem with transferring is that even if you are successful, you'll have to pay full freight. If you drop out and reapply, you might get a scholarship offer to the school you'd end up transferring to considering your URM status. Especially if you can push your LSAT up to 10-15 points (which is possible if you study hard). If you can get your LSAT to the 165-168 range, I think you'd have a good shot at landing at a solid T1 or T2 with scholarship money:
Image

Especially since you can explain why you dropped out of Charlotte (it's easily understandable considering the DOE's actions) and would have good grades at Charlotte.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby JFO1833 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:42 pm

A year ago I went through the 2015 509s and compiled all the data on where transfers came and went from. This data is a year old and I don't know how much the DOE or ABA actions will change things or what the 2016 data looks like. One additional limitation, schools that took less than 5 total transfers are not required to list where the transfers came from so some transfers cannot be tracked to their destination schools.

So here is what I know:

At the end of the 2014/2015 year, 38 Charlotte students transferred out (33 1Ls, 5 2Ls (part time?)).

Here is where they went (USN ranking in parenthesis):

Georgetown (14) - 2
Washington & Lee (40) - 1
Richmond (55) - 1
Case Western (57) - 1
Miami (60) - 5
Tennessee (65) - 1
American (78) - 1
Rutgers (92) - 2
South Carolina (92) - 2
Stetson (103) - 1
Baltimore (111) - 1
Hofstra (111) - 2
Marquette (123) - 2
Chapman (136) - 1
Barry (RNP) - 1
Cooley (RNP) - 2
Florida A&M (RNP) - 1
John Marshall (Atlanta) (RNP) - 2

9 - Unknown

grades??

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby grades?? » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:52 pm

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/12/students ... lotte-law/

Class action lawsuit against Charlotte law. The mass exodus is beginning I'm sure, so the transfer market is going to be so oversaturated. Time to drop out (and join the class if you can).

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby Quick Shot » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:04 pm

Thanks guys. I've already started studying for the LSAT. Regarding Fall 2017 or Fall 2018, I suppose we'll see what happens with my score.

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Re: What do I do now? 1L at Charlotte Law

Postby jdcumlaude » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:06 pm

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/01/without- ... a-coastal/


you could go from CSL to FC...same crap different state.



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