JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

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MBA or MSF

MBA
5
83%
MSF
1
17%
 
Total votes: 6

tmac0125

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JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:37 am

My question is whether it would be better to get an MBA or MSF after a JD if the goal is Fed or Big Law. For background I am top 10% in lower ranked Tier 1 school, managing editor of law review, mock trial, good work experience. I am very interested in corporate law at a Big Law firm or working with the SEC one day. I also have no financial undergraduate.

I am thinking the MBA or MSF will increase my chances since I am coming from a lower ranked law school and have no financial background. I am scoring around a 730 on the GMAT so should be able to get into a good business school. Any specific school recommendations for either? Other advice?

HYPSM

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby HYPSM » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:59 am

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Last edited by HYPSM on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

tmac0125

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:20 am

HYPSM wrote:Neither of those will get you BigLaw or a federal gov't job. Don't waste your time and money. An MBA does not make up for a TTT JD.


While I agree that a T45-50 is not the most desirable I would not consider it TTT. There are plenty of people in BigLaw and Fed jobs from these schools. I am simply asking for constructive advice on the best path to get there. With my stats it is certainly not impossible. Suggestions on which jobs to take to transfer into BigLaw and Fed would also be helpful.

El_Bee_Oh

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby El_Bee_Oh » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:33 am

Definitely MBA. You get a lot of very specialized finance knowledge from an MSF program that isn't really applicable to law at all. The MBA just gives you a good general overview of business.

That said, I don't think either is necessary. The vast majority of corporate lawyers had no business or finance experience before law school.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:36 am

Fed gov is fine with top 10% at at T1. But neither of those degrees would be helpful for fed gov jobs I can think of. The difficulty with biglaw is going to be getting a job outside of OCI, which is what your position seems to be if you're managing editor of LR but don't already have a biglaw job lined up. What experience do you already have?

(Also moving this to the correct forum.)

tmac0125

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:24 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Fed gov is fine with top 10% at at T1. But neither of those degrees would be helpful for fed gov jobs I can think of. The difficulty with biglaw is going to be getting a job outside of OCI, which is what your position seems to be if you're managing editor of LR but don't already have a biglaw job lined up. What experience do you already have?

(Also moving this to the correct forum.)


Two semesters working full time at the State Attorney, One semester full time with the Attorney General, Three semesters working 20/hrs a week at one of the top 3 civil defense firms in town. Was also a legal writing teaching assistant.

I have taken a lot of business law classes but have no financial undergrad so figured the MBA/MSF would help me compete with the people who do have backgrounds in finance for the Securities law jobs. Additionally with my GMAT score I should be able to get into a big name school which might help even if the degree itself isn't necessary.

HYPSM

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby HYPSM » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:30 pm

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Last edited by HYPSM on Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:44 pm

HYPSM wrote:Percentage-wise, those from T50 schools are essentially unrepresented in BigLaw.

Eh, I don't think overstates the case, especially depending on market and what range of biglaw.

That said, though, there are definitely fewer T50 grads in biglaw, and not having it lined up already will make for a hard row to hoe. OP, it looks like you've missed out on OCI and 3L OCI, so you want to get some kind of job lined up and think about how you can maneuver from there. What's the deal with the civil defense firm - do they not hire associates?

But again, getting an MBA or MSF isn't going to help. It's going to be expensive and speaking generally, employers don't much care about undergrad backgrounds, but do care a lot about law school and grades. You have good grades but for employers who care about where you went to law school, getting an awesome MBA won't make up for that.

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SeewhathappensLarry

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby SeewhathappensLarry » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:48 pm

I'm a bit confused with what the MBA actually does, if you want to be a lawyer. I know plenty of people getting their JD/MBA and invariably they talk about it like getting the MBA "will help them be a better lawyer" or that getting a law degree "will be useful in business." I'm skeptical about both those things, and it seems like a ton of money and time to add more academic degrees in the chance it marginally improves your chances at certain jobs.

tmac0125

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:50 pm

HYPSM wrote:
tmac0125 wrote:
HYPSM wrote:Neither of those will get you BigLaw or a federal gov't job. Don't waste your time and money. An MBA does not make up for a TTT JD.


While I agree that a T45-50 is not the most desirable I would not consider it TTT. There are plenty of people in BigLaw and Fed jobs from these schools. I am simply asking for constructive advice on the best path to get there. With my stats it is certainly not impossible. Suggestions on which jobs to take to transfer into BigLaw and Fed would also be helpful.


Let me reiterate that neither of those degrees will be helpful for BigLaw and they will be especially unhelpful for fed jobs.

You say plenty of people from T50 schools get BigLaw and fed jobs, but the fact that you were on law review and still struck out should cast doubt on that erroneous conjecture. Percentage-wise, those from T50 schools are essentially unrepresented in BigLaw.

Your chances may be better for a fed job, but getting an MBA is probably the most expensive and least effective way to achieve your goals.


While the percentage is definitely lower a simple search of the alumni database shows there are still plenty in Fed and Biglaw. I intend on asking their advice as well was just wondering what people on here would say. Since you put so much weight on what school the applicant is from, would you say that adding a big name business school would make up a little for the lack of T14 law school regardless of whether the degree itself is very useful? You say MBA is the most expensive and least effective way to achieve the goal, so what method would you recommend?

tmac0125

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
HYPSM wrote:Percentage-wise, those from T50 schools are essentially unrepresented in BigLaw.

Eh, I don't think overstates the case, especially depending on market and what range of biglaw.

That said, though, there are definitely fewer T50 grads in biglaw, and not having it lined up already will make for a hard row to hoe. OP, it looks like you've missed out on OCI and 3L OCI, so you want to get some kind of job lined up and think about how you can maneuver from there. What's the deal with the civil defense firm - do they not hire associates?

But again, getting an MBA or MSF isn't going to help. It's going to be expensive and speaking generally, employers don't much care about undergrad backgrounds, but do care a lot about law school and grades. You have good grades but for employers who care about where you went to law school, getting an awesome MBA won't make up for that.


Correct, many callbacks but no luck on offers 2L and there were very few options at 3L OCI this semester. The firm does not hire any associates out of law school.

tmac0125

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:58 pm

SeewhathappensLarry wrote:I'm a bit confused with what the MBA actually does, if you want to be a lawyer. I know plenty of people getting their JD/MBA and invariably they talk about it like getting the MBA "will help them be a better lawyer" or that getting a law degree "will be useful in business." I'm skeptical about both those things, and it seems like a ton of money and time to add more academic degrees in the chance it marginally improves your chances at certain jobs.


I am also curious since it seems to be a fairly commonly offered joint degree. I am very interested in Business and was wondering if it helps set an applicant apart from all of the other cookie cutter resumes. Especially for a Securities job. Which is why I am hoping someone on here can offer some more insight.

tmac0125

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Re: JD/MBA v. JD/MSF

Postby tmac0125 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:48 pm

Anyone else have any thoughts? I found this on Goodwin's website:

"We appreciate the extra hard work involved in a dual graduate degree and are pleased to offer a signing bonus to first year JD/MBA associates who accept an offer with us. Whether you’re a JD/MBA, or still considering this option, we want you to know we think it’s a very smart business move. An MBA program allows you to work collaboratively in teams and learn in an environment with people who aren’t lawyers. You’ll graduate with a better understanding of the intricacies between business and law."

So it seems like at least one Big Law firm likes the MBA, maybe the others do too? For those so opposed to the extra degree as a waste of time and money, any alternative suggestions other than trolls for not being T14? Any specific jobs that you recommend as stepping stones to get in? For those who agree the MBA is even in the slightest bit helpful on a resume, do you think the MBA from a big name school would be better or should I take a scholarship from a lower school?

Obviously my path won't be the easiest or typical path into Big Law or Fed but there is more than one way in.



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