Top law students vs. top med students

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follagordas

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:16 am

lymenheimer wrote:
follagordas wrote:as for it being riddled w/ assumptions, idk what you mean.


follagordas wrote:with little (read: none) experience interacting with top med students


Can't tell if you're trolling me, since those two quotes seem pretty non-sequitur. Also, pretty sure the second quote was immediately followed by "hence my question" (meaning that I recognized I didn't know much and was therefore soliciting responses. I even attempted to clarify that in the sentence following the first quote you cited, but you conveniently left that out as well).

Idk why you don't just contribute something productive to the convo, since you're clearly already taking the time to read every post.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:24 am

landshoes wrote:law students and med students are both quite incurious compared to other grad school students, so there's something they have in common

also med students seem much happier

the reason why people aren't super into this is because we can't actually answer it given the info that we have

so it's sort of like "do you think libras are more angry than leos, but they just keep it all inside?" in terms of how much discussing it matters. both on a practical level and on a pure analytical/puzzle solving level. if this is a problem you actually want to solve, talking to us about it does nothing. and there's no new approach or insight, either, that might make it interesting. just "let's compare stuff"

so since there's no real point and it's not adding anything to the world, it should be enjoyable, but you're sucking the fun out of it by doing that "no no this is SERIOUS wankery" thing. and geez, that's the worst of both worlds (and avoiding SERIOUS wankery is why I didn't major in philosophy)

~hope that helps~


Thanks for the response. Interesting comment about being "incurious"; if true that would explain the lack of desire for people to escape the law school bubble here (same with med; haven't been able to track a single one down yet), and would also explain the apathy of everyone here towards the questions. I suppose it also fits in with the idea that they're more trade schools as opposed to research based programs like other grad schools.

Also, regarding the serious wankery thing, fair point. I obviously think it's a fun question. I just got more into the serious wankery thing when asked "what's the point?" ( I assumed entertainment value wouldn't be sufficient). Also I like philosophy, so I suppose I do at some level enjoy the wankery aspect, as you've put it.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:28 am

landshoes wrote:also my guess is YLS and one of asha's goofy admits, not a prof-scored admit


I find it ironic and potentially absurd that I'm having to fight tooth and nail to justify asking a question with serious societal implications, yet you guys unquestioningly accept the validity of speculating hard as to where I attend (also considering one of your critiques was that we'll never know the answer to my q...)

Just a thought ;)

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lymenheimer

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:31 am

follagordas wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
follagordas wrote:as for it being riddled w/ assumptions, idk what you mean.


follagordas wrote:with little (read: none) experience interacting with top med students


Can't tell if you're trolling me, since those two quotes seem pretty non-sequitur. Also, pretty sure the second quote was immediately followed by "hence my question" (meaning that I recognized I didn't know much and was therefore soliciting responses. I even attempted to clarify that in the sentence following the first quote you cited, but you conveniently left that out as well).

Idk why you don't just contribute something productive to the convo, since you're clearly already taking the time to read every post.


Come on. You're a 1L at YHS. How can YOU of all people not recognize the relationship between those two sentences?

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landshoes

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby landshoes » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:35 am

follagordas wrote:
landshoes wrote:also my guess is YLS and one of asha's goofy admits, not a prof-scored admit


I find it ironic and potentially absurd that I'm having to fight tooth and nail to justify asking a question with serious societal implications, yet you guys unquestioningly accept the validity of speculating hard as to where I attend (also considering one of your critiques was that we'll never know the answer to my q...)

Just a thought ;)


lol damn dude haven't your profs beaten this kind of self-regard out of you yet? the answer is obviously no, hence my YLS guess.

here, let me help you with that:

you're not "having" to do anything
you haven't shown the serious societal implications of this discussion; while the topic might be important that doesn't make every discussion of it important
you don't know that I "unquestioningly" did anything

and...the fact that we're speculating about where you attend is not ironic. in my two prong analysis, the reason for people not wanting to discuss this is because of the combination of seriousness and inefficacy. speculating about where you attend might be inefficacious. Since it's fun, I don't care that it's not efficacious, and I am enjoying it.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:55 am

landshoes wrote:
follagordas wrote:
landshoes wrote:also my guess is YLS and one of asha's goofy admits, not a prof-scored admit


I find it ironic and potentially absurd that I'm having to fight tooth and nail to justify asking a question with serious societal implications, yet you guys unquestioningly accept the validity of speculating hard as to where I attend (also considering one of your critiques was that we'll never know the answer to my q...)

Just a thought ;)


lol damn dude haven't your profs beaten this kind of self-regard out of you yet? the answer is obviously no, hence my YLS guess.

here, let me help you with that:

you're not "having" to do anything
you haven't shown the serious societal implications of this discussion; while the topic might be important that doesn't make every discussion of it important
you don't know that I "unquestioningly" did anything

and...the fact that we're speculating about where you attend is not ironic. in my two prong analysis, the reason for people not wanting to discuss this is because of the combination of seriousness and inefficacy. speculating about where you attend might be inefficacious. Since it's fun, I don't care that it's not efficacious, and I am enjoying it.


I honestly don't get the vitriole; I've shown nothing but deference to your posts other than light-heartedly point out what I considered to be an inconsistency in one of your statements, which you obviously you disagree with. Obviously, that is ok, and I don't consider it to be the salient point of the discussion. You did answer my question, which I do appreciate, and if you want to discuss where I go to school, we can do that via pm.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:07 am

lymenheimer wrote:Come on. You're a 1L at YHS. How can YOU of all people not recognize the relationship between those two sentences?


I suppose you mean that since I admitted I didn't know any "top med students," that the rest of my post should be invalidated. If that's the case, I disagree. As I have mentioned, I admit within the post that my thoughts are not totally substantiated, which is why I am asking the question in the first place (for the record, I am friends with dozens of med schools, just not any from top 15 programs, so my thoughts are not total bs. Certainly a lack of irl contact w/ HYS students doesn't prevent people from commenting on their respective stereotypes [not saying that's anyone in this thread, but I imagine there are some cases of it on the forum]. Even if my thoughts were bs though, that isn't an excuse to throw out the question entirely, just to throw out my analysis and offer up a more educated response of your own).

In any case, I still would appreciate your legitimate take on the issue :D

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:21 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
follagordas wrote:b) gpa: Here they seem about "equal," though it is common knowledge that pre-med classes are generally harder (perhaps significantly moreso) than liberal arts courses (at least at my school, it seems like the majority of the class comes have lib arts degrees).

This is an assumption about majors that is difficult to quantify in any way.

c) selectivity: this fits in more with the next factors imo, but it's worth pointing out the enormous discrepancy in acceptance rates between ls and ms.

See previous comment on the difference between the two professions.

I don't have much to say on this other than I believe that, on average, med students are probably harder working (perhaps a lot more). Even at my LS, there seem to be a lot of "high functioning procrastinators" (as described by a 3L), who are very intelligent but tend to wait until the last minute to work on assignments (not sure if this is a result of or a reason for the lower workload of a Lib arts degree). Idk from experience but this seems far less likely w/ med students, not just b/c of the larger academic workload but also b/c of the soft factors they must accrue. It's worth pointing out, however, that at least at HYS, people do seem to have a large number of "soft factors," (most of my classmates have intimidatingly impressive resumes, despite the stereotype that LS admissions are mainly a #s game.)

Again lots of assumptions about med students and academic workloads. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure med students work hard, but the programs are structured very differently. If law students can get excellent grades by waiting till the last minute (which they can based on the way law school courses are taught) then there's no reason they should structure their workload differently. But that doesn't really say anything about work ethic as much as responding rationally to each program's incentives.

a) serious desire to practice law (pretty small minority, sadly), further divided into:
i) The annoying "I've always liked to argue" subtype (far fewer in my class than I was expecting, thankfully, so perhaps they tend to fill up the lower ranked schools)

Or maybe they are another assumption.
ii) The puzzling "I'm a former engineer and think it would be cool now to do patent law" subtype

Why are these people puzzling?

b) desire to work in government, public interest, or academia

Apart from academia, why are these groups not part of the "serious desire to practice law" category?

In the case of med students, I would assume their motivations are much less stratified and more defined, with 99% of them wanted to practice medicine and/or perform research.

Is this a function of personality type or of the medical profession offering less variety than the legal profession? What are you basing this assumption on?

Re: your last comment - no, I don't actually care about the answer to this question; and I feel pretty comfortable drawing my own conclusions about Obama/Cruz/Clinton v. Carson based on their actual achievements and statements and so on. Not sure how generalizations about law students and med students writ large tell you anything about specific individuals.


I appreciate the comments and agree with some of the critiques, but again you don't seem to offer anything constructive. I would appreciate your own thoughts on the issue to go along with the questioning of mine (which again, I do appreciate).

cavalier1138

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:13 am

Usually trolls are less academically-oriented (if we want to be generous and refer to this dumpster fire as an "academic inquiry").

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landshoes

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby landshoes » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:25 am

follagordas wrote:
landshoes wrote:
follagordas wrote:
landshoes wrote:also my guess is YLS and one of asha's goofy admits, not a prof-scored admit


I find it ironic and potentially absurd that I'm having to fight tooth and nail to justify asking a question with serious societal implications, yet you guys unquestioningly accept the validity of speculating hard as to where I attend (also considering one of your critiques was that we'll never know the answer to my q...)

Just a thought ;)


lol damn dude haven't your profs beaten this kind of self-regard out of you yet? the answer is obviously no, hence my YLS guess.

here, let me help you with that:

you're not "having" to do anything
you haven't shown the serious societal implications of this discussion; while the topic might be important that doesn't make every discussion of it important
you don't know that I "unquestioningly" did anything

and...the fact that we're speculating about where you attend is not ironic. in my two prong analysis, the reason for people not wanting to discuss this is because of the combination of seriousness and inefficacy. speculating about where you attend might be inefficacious. Since it's fun, I don't care that it's not efficacious, and I am enjoying it.


I honestly don't get the vitriole; I've shown nothing but deference to your posts other than light-heartedly point out what I considered to be an inconsistency in one of your statements, which you obviously you disagree with. Obviously, that is ok, and I don't consider it to be the salient point of the discussion. You did answer my question, which I do appreciate, and if you want to discuss where I go to school, we can do that via pm.


I'm not mad, I'm smart. You need someone (not it) to whip your critical thinking skills into shape. you're like "hey guys why don't you fly with me come on!!" and people are pointing out that you don't even know how to get up the stairs into the airplane, much less fly the thing.

hopefully your profs help you out with this by critiquing you, so you can see what you're doing wrong and develop a bit instead of thinking that you know what you're doing and everyone else is a dope for not seeing it (we are not dopes).

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lymenheimer

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:31 am

follagordas wrote:I suppose you mean that since I admitted I didn't know any "top med students," that the rest of my post should be invalidated.

For a supposed YHS 1L, your analysis skills are really lacking.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:39 am

cavalier1138 wrote:Usually trolls are less academically-oriented (if we want to be generous and refer to this dumpster fire as an "academic inquiry").


Yet another guy who reads the thread, ignores the question, and posts a useless comment insulting the OP. If you don't like the topic, why post?

Perhaps I should have asked this question on a different site. I honestly did not expect this kind of hostility.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:42 am

lymenheimer wrote:
follagordas wrote:I suppose you mean that since I admitted I didn't know any "top med students," that the rest of my post should be invalidated.

For a supposed YHS 1L, your analysis skills are really lacking.


Thankfully you weren't on the admissions committee (:
Last edited by follagordas on Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:55 am

follagordas wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Usually trolls are less academically-oriented (if we want to be generous and refer to this dumpster fire as an "academic inquiry").


Yet another guy who reads the thread, ignores the question, and posts a useless comment insulting the OP. If you don't like the topic, why post?

Perhaps I should have asked this question on a different site. I honestly did not expect this kind of hostility.


I posted because I want to discourage you from thinking that this topic would be empirically measurable, much less important to the world at large. As you've already shown, the only "conclusions" to be reached are speculative and pointless.

This is, bar none, the dumbest pseudo-intellectual question I've seen posted here. And that's saying something.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:57 am

landshoes wrote:
I'm not mad, I'm smart. You need someone (not it) to whip your critical thinking skills into shape. you're like "hey guys why don't you fly with me come on!!" and people are pointing out that you don't even know how to get up the stairs into the airplane, much less fly the thing.

hopefully your profs help you out with this by critiquing you, so you can see what you're doing wrong and develop a bit instead of thinking that you know what you're doing and everyone else is a dope for not seeing it (we are not dopes).


I don't recall questioning your intellect (obviously, anger and intelligence are not mutually exclusive, and I specifically highlighted and thanked you for your insightful response). I was honestly just wondering (still wondering, actually) why you're treating my posts w/ hostility, especially the last one, given that it was essentially a peace offering.

As for your analogy (which I don't agree with, but will entertain) if you really think I can't get up the stairs to fly the thing, why don't you help me out instead of simply ridiculing my supposed inadequacies and trying to forestall any efforts to learn? I would argue you seem to be scoffing at the very idea of flying.

Anyway, perhaps this whole exercise is futile. The conversation has obviously derailed, and it appears as though my thread has been a bit of a failure...

You live and you learn I suppose (:

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby Redfactor » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:01 am

A lot of lawyers from TT law schools get rich by suing dumbass doctors from great med schools.

OP: relax. You appear to have gotten into a solid program. You have peers who could have opted for the med school on your campus like there are med students that could have been admitted to your program.

The saving grace with med schools is there are a lot fewer TTTT's graduating people that have no business changing the oil on someone's car let alone significantly affecting someone's liberty or health.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:06 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
I posted because I want to discourage you from thinking that this topic would be empirically measurable



If that's the case, why would you not say something to that effect instead of some vague notion of me being a troll?

cavalier1138 wrote:This is, bar none, the dumbest pseudo-intellectual question I've seen posted here. And that's saying something.


That's empirically measurable though, right? ;)

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby follagordas » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:31 am

Redfactor wrote:A lot of lawyers from TT law schools get rich by suing dumbass doctors from great med schools.

OP: relax. You appear to have gotten into a solid program. You have peers who could have opted for the med school on your campus like there are med students that could have been admitted to your program.

The saving grace with med schools is there are a lot fewer TTTT's graduating people that have no business changing the oil on someone's car let alone significantly affecting someone's liberty or health.


Thanks for the response, and I think you touched upon exactly why this thread has gotten so much vitriol. Had I left out the HYS affiliation, perhaps I would have gotten more straight forward responses. Instead everything has had to do with where I go to school. Looking back, it was irrelevant to the question, and I should have left it out.

For the record, although I appreciate the reassurance of my getting into a "solid program," I'm thankfully not insecure regarding where I go nor what I study. I was just simply curious about the comparison between the two groups.

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:29 am

clown question bro

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:46 am

follagordas wrote:I appreciate the comments and agree with some of the critiques, but again you don't seem to offer anything constructive. I would appreciate your own thoughts on the issue to go along with the questioning of mine (which again, I do appreciate).

But I have given you my thoughts on the issue. I don't think that med students have a stronger work ethic and necessarily did more in undergrad than law students, or that students who want to go to med school are at heart any better informed or focused about their careers than law students are; their numbers have just been reduced earlier in the process, so the kind of process law students undergo to figure out what they want to do and if law is right for them happens earlier for med students. That is, to the extent med students don't fall into the same kinds of "I don't know what to do with myself" mindset as law students (which I'm not actually convinced of), it's because the application process and even getting to med school at all is different from law school, and weeds out those people.

Beyond that, you have large numbers of really smart people about whom you can't really generalize. (I agree with whoever above pointed out that there are a lot more law schools admitting less-qualified applicants than there are med schools that do so, but you limited your question to top schools only, so we don't need to worry about that.) I don't agree that brain drain is a problem at all - the very top law schools are always going to have very smart students, and to the extent that medians dip a couple of LSAT points or tenths of a GPA, that's not material, because LSAT and GPA are pretty blunt measures for lawyering ability.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:06 pm

"Everything".

Winter is Coming

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby Winter is Coming » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:14 pm

OP, can you do a similar ANALYSIS on Vet students?

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R. Jeeves

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby R. Jeeves » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:38 pm

.
Last edited by R. Jeeves on Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

GeneralLawyer

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby GeneralLawyer » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:47 pm

Let's say there is a thread on a forum that a law student and med student both frequent. They both think the thread is stupid and/or pointless.

The med student will choose not to participate in the thread. The law student will angrily vent his or her issues with the thread at the OP, and rack up multiple posts arguing with OP in a thread they thought was valueless anyway. That is the difference.

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Clearly

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Re: Top law students vs. top med students

Postby Clearly » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:47 pm

Holy Crap you are the wooorsstt



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