Finish or Dropout? Forum

[Magicon]

First time on TLS, but I was hoping to get some major advice. I will be brief in my facts, but I want to state that I don't want to get s***ed on for my poor life choices. I'll take the hard truth, but there is no reason to be unprofessional about it. Ok? Ok. Thanks.

Law School Facts: I'm halfway through 2L year at a regional T4 school. My LSAT was 147 (Yes, I know it's bad. Get over it.) and my GPA was 3.56, graduating magna cum laude from a small, state school in three years with a double-major in Poli Sci and Music. My law school GPA is 3.0, which is good for the school as it puts me just shy of the top 1/3. I am on Law Review (So, I assume I have good writing skills). I think I did well on my fall finals, but won't find out until early next January. Summer 1L year I worked at Public Legal Services and gained some valuable experience about family law, but I wish I could've done more there. Next summer I will be interning full time for a Federal COA Judge and her clerks (Yes, I know it'll be mostly her clerks), but I am really excited for that. I'm also told that the judge loves the school and the school loves her. She usually hires one student every year as a clerk, and gives glowing letters of recommendation to all her interns. Further, I don't love every aspect of the law, but there are areas I do enjoy reading about: IP, Family Law, Criminal Defense.

Finances: I have a small scholarship from my school, (about $2,500 a semester). I don't have to worry about cost of living as I work a part time job on the weekends that covers living expenses. Loans: I have $20K in loans right now, but I have enough in savings that I can pay off $10K and live comfortably. Each semester costs $10K in loans, and they are federal unsubsidized loans. If I continue into spring 2016, I will take on another $10K, but again, it can be paid off instantly. My parents are also chipping in with a little bit as well. (So grateful for them!)

Experience: My legal experience, as previously mentioned, was only through Legal Services. Outside of that, I completed two internships: one with my Town Government as a clerk, and the other as an intern on Capitol Hill.

Plans: I have an inkling to continue law school through the spring, work for the judge for the summer, and then decide what to do from there.

Advice: I am a constant worrier and planner. I want to get some advice to know whether this is all worth it or should I cut my losses and run? If I leave, how would I get a job with my minimal experience? Please let me know.

[Mr. Archer]

Are you attempting to troll, or are you just really insecure?

[totesTheGoat]

Why do you want to drop out? It seems like a relatively small investment to get through your 2L and get into the internship. Then, you have all of 3L to network in order to find a decent job. The only thing you need to do is hustle this spring semester to try and bolster your networking. All that work this spring will pay off next year if you don't get a clerkship.

It seems that if you distill your post down, you're worried that you're not going to be getting the clerkship after your internship. It's never too early to start selling yourself to potential employers in case you're left without a clerkship.

I don't really see the harm in following through and finishing up. It looks like the absolute worst case is you being in $20-30k debt and struggling to find a solid legal job out of school. That's really not the end of the world. You'll eventually land on some job, and $30k debt isn't terrible to pay off, even if you're just making $40k a year.

[rcharter1978]

First time on TLS, but I was hoping to get some major advice. I will be brief in my facts, but I want to state that I don't want to get s***ed on for my poor life choices. I'll take the hard truth, but there is no reason to be unprofessional about it. Ok? Ok. Thanks.

Law School Facts: I'm halfway through 2L year at a regional T4 school. My LSAT was 147 (Yes, I know it's bad. Get over it.) and my GPA was 3.56, graduating magna cum laude from a small, state school in three years with a double-major in Poli Sci and Music. My law school GPA is 3.0, which is good for the school as it puts me just shy of the top 1/3. I am on Law Review (So, I assume I have good writing skills). I think I did well on my fall finals, but won't find out until early next January. Summer 1L year I worked at Public Legal Services and gained some valuable experience about family law, but I wish I could've done more there. Next summer I will be interning full time for a Federal COA Judge and her clerks (Yes, I know it'll be mostly her clerks), but I am really excited for that. I'm also told that the judge loves the school and the school loves her. She usually hires one student every year as a clerk, and gives glowing letters of recommendation to all her interns. Further, I don't love every aspect of the law, but there are areas I do enjoy reading about: IP, Family Law, Criminal Defense.

Finances: I have a small scholarship from my school, (about $2,500 a semester). I don't have to worry about cost of living as I work a part time job on the weekends that covers living expenses. Loans: I have $20K in loans right now, but I have enough in savings that I can pay off $10K and live comfortably. Each semester costs $10K in loans, and they are federal unsubsidized loans. If I continue into spring 2016, I will take on another $10K, but again, it can be paid off instantly. My parents are also chipping in with a little bit as well. (So grateful for them!)

Experience: My legal experience, as previously mentioned, was only through Legal Services. Outside of that, I completed two internships: one with my Town Government as a clerk, and the other as an intern on Capitol Hill.

Plans: I have an inkling to continue law school through the spring, work for the judge for the summer, and then decide what to do from there.

Advice: I am a constant worrier and planner. I want to get some advice to know whether this is all worth it or should I cut my losses and run? If I leave, how would I get a job with my minimal experience? Please let me know.

Like someone else said -- I'm not entirely sure this is serious. BUT, if you are, my big advice is to stop telling anyone your LSAT score. If the LSAT is supposed to be some indicator of how well you do in law school, it no longer matters because you're in law school and doing well. Do not speak of it ever again. I don't even know why anyone would ask anymore. I understand why you would want to talk about your grades, but if it leads to an LSAT discussion, its not going to go well for you. And you REALLY don't want to be caught having that discussion with someone who might talk to your judge. Congratulations, it must have taken a lot of hustle to get your internship. I had an externship with a Federal Judge and he wouldn't consider someone out of the top 20-30% of the class.

If your worry is about getting a clerkship, I can tell you, with my judge, it wouldn't have been happening unless you were related to a Senator or a Congressman. He generally wouldn't even consider someone who wasn't in the top 10% of the class for a clerkship. And so many of the clerks came from high paying firm jobs just to clerk for a federal judge. Not that I don't think your grades are good, but there is a ton of competition for those spots.

I can't see where it would benefit you to leave law school with only a year left to go. Especially if you don't have a ton of debt. Unless you can make that part time job sound like a full time job I feel like people are going to ask you what you've been doing in life when you go on job interviews. Most people can understand dropping after 1L.

I would say stick it out, and focus on getting yourself into the top 1/3 of the class. In the final year some people really let things slide so there can be room for movement.

[whatsyourdeal]

Finish school. You are already half way done, and your prospects seem like anyone else who has missed the biglaw boat sans HLS.

Like other posters have said, focus on racking up experience while in law school - if you can, work an internship/externship during your last semester as well or pick up a part time legal job (if you don't have one already, I know you mentioned that you work part time but not sure if it is a legal job).

If you back out now, you are left with 20k in loans (hope you didn't actually mean 200k) and no J.D., but only a double major poli-sci and music degree. I don't know what entry level job you can get with those degrees, but I'm sure you can imagine the prospects by looking on craigslist. So you have no J.D. and 20k debt.

If you go forward, you pay another 30k (assuming you have 3 more semesters left at 10K a piece), which on top of your current 20k, will put you around 50k. Now, you will have a J.D. and 50k debt.

Just my opinion, but I would rather be in 50k debt with a J.D. then 20k without.

[bretby]

Finish school. You are already half way done, and your prospects seem like anyone else who has missed the biglaw boat sans HLS.

Like other posters have said, focus on racking up experience while in law school - if you can, work an internship/externship during your last semester as well or pick up a part time legal job (if you don't have one already, I know you mentioned that you work part time but not sure if it is a legal job).

If you back out now, you are left with 20k in loans (hope you didn't actually mean 200k) and no J.D., but only a double major poli-sci and music degree. I don't know what entry level job you can get with those degrees, but I'm sure you can imagine the prospects by looking on craigslist. So you have no J.D. and 20k debt.

If you go forward, you pay another 30k (assuming you have 3 more semesters left at 10K a piece), which on top of your current 20k, will put you around 50k. Now, you will have a J.D. and 50k debt.

Just my opinion, but I would rather be in 50k debt with a J.D. then 20k without.

A little off-topic, but you could get the same entry-level job with a poli-sci/music major as you could pretty much any other major barring engineering. That said, OP should definitely not drop out now.

[lavarman84]

Not trying to be mean but I would be surprised if a person at TTTT school gets a federal clerkship. And my expectation would be that you'd have to be top of the class to get it.

But I'd stick it out. I think you can find a job if you network as others have mentioned. But it's up to you if you see yourself being a lawyer. It's $30,000 more in debt which isn't nothing and 1.5 years of your life.

[rcharter1978]

Not trying to be mean but I would be surprised if a person at TTTT school gets a federal clerkship. And my expectation would be that you'd have to be top of the class to get it.

But I'd stick it out. I think you can find a job if you network as others have mentioned. But it's up to you if you see yourself being a lawyer. It's $30,000 more in debt which isn't nothing and 1.5 years of your life.

I think its possible to get a clerkship from TTTT if you have a federal judge who went to your school. Law schools know the deal, and if they have a judge who made it to the federal bench they will generally pull out all of the stops to make them feel loved and appreciated. However, you are absolutely right, I think there are very few federal judges who would consider a clerkship for anyone out of the top 10%. The two I knew of were probably in the top 5% of the class. But, I guess there is always the possibility of an exception.

[pancakes3]

Well, I wouldn't hold my breath that your judicial internship turns into a COA clerkship even if you're the world's greatest intern next summer. I also wouldn't count on her glowing LOR opening doors to fed clerkships at all.

Even with top 30ish% law review coming out of a TTTT, your career options are fairly limited. The good news is that you have a chance to be employed but the bad news is that even still, you're only going to be hired by local firms, DA/PD, and *maybe* a state clerkship.

So I don't get the "wait and see" approach. You need to be hustling and meeting local attorneys working at firms who can afford to hire you.

But my first impressions were that (1) a $2,500 scholarship is pretty shit and (2) if you've got a part time job that can ACTUALLY cover your COL, then why not just work that part time job and drop out?

[nick417]

Well, I wouldn't hold my breath that your judicial internship turns into a COA clerkship even if you're the world's greatest intern next summer. I also wouldn't count on her glowing LOR opening doors to fed clerkships at all.

Even with top 30ish% law review coming out of a TTTT, your career options are fairly limited. The good news is that you have a chance to be employed but the bad news is that even still, you're only going to be hired by local firms, DA/PD, and *maybe* a state clerkship.

So I don't get the "wait and see" approach. You need to be hustling and meeting local attorneys working at firms who can afford to hire you.

But my first impressions were that (1) a $2,500 scholarship is pretty shit and (2) if you've got a part time job that can ACTUALLY cover your COL, then why not just work that part time job and drop out?

I would disagree with this advice to drop out and just work your part time job. It sounds like your debt is not significant ($40K is significant but is not crippling) and what is one extra year going to do.

The way to look at this logically is to (1) take whatever one extra year of law school will cost you and (2) decide if a law degree will cover that cost. Because your current debt is a sunk cost, regardless of what you decide it will still be there. So your determination boils down to the cost of one year of law school versus the benefits of a law degree. If the benefits of a law degree outweigh the cost of one year of law school, then stay in school. If the benefits do not outweigh the cost, drop out. That is the logical way to look at it. I know it is tough to ignore your current debt BUT that is a sunk cost.

But I also second the difficulty of getting a Federal COA or any federal clerkship. They are really tough to obtain. But you may be in shape to get a state clerkship or state appellate clerkship.

[Magicon]

Thank you all for the great advice! I am going to at least stick it out through the semester and through the summer. I may land a position on the executive board or get my comment published or both next semester, so no point in stopping now. Financially, I'll be 30K in debt after this semester but I could bump it down to $20K and I would be fine with that. I probably won't land the clerkship with the federal judge, but I plan to work my a** off next summer so who knows what will happen? I'll decide if I should return during the summer after my 2L grades have come out and whether my rank improved or not. Thanks again. I may be back later in the year for more advice.