Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

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helfer snooterbagon
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:58 am

Corsair wrote:Note that if you stay in the reserves, you can still hit your 20 (which is the plan of the Navy captain I interviewed with today).


You met an O6 with less than 20 years? He/she must have put on Captain relatively recently, but I guess it is possible since they promote to O3 so fast.

bahama
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby bahama » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:21 pm

helfer snooterbagon wrote:
Corsair wrote:Note that if you stay in the reserves, you can still hit your 20 (which is the plan of the Navy captain I interviewed with today).


You met an O6 with less than 20 years? He/she must have put on Captain relatively recently, but I guess it is possible since they promote to O3 so fast.

It wouldn't be suprising if they were a JAG their whole career:
O2 - 6mo
O3 - 6yrs
O4 - 5-6yrs
O5 - 6 yrs

So they'd make O6 at about 17.5-18.5 yrs.

For someone commisioned as an O1 right out of undergrad you'd need to add 2yrs as an O1 and an additional 1.5 as an O2 to the above. This is why most O6s have over 20yrs except for a few special programs like for JAGs and doctors where you come in as an O2 or O3.

Kretzy
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby Kretzy » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:25 pm

This thread is a little disconcerting. Do folks think HYS-JAG Corps could put someone in a pretty good position for both firm and government positions?

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Na_Swatch
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:27 pm

Kretzy wrote:This thread is a little disconcerting. Do folks think HYS-JAG Corps could put someone in a pretty good position for both firm and government positions?


Yeah, wondering about this too. Seemed like it would be ok, but looking at this thread would JAG limit even a HYS grad from getting a firm job?

bahama
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby bahama » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:59 pm

Here is the thing with your chances at a firm post JAG: You are not going to get in some place that you couldn't have gotten straight from law school, and likely will have a harder time than someone with equal school and grades who was interviewng through OCI.

- You are not going to be able to come in as a 4th year lateral or whatever most of your law school peers are because your experience isn't relevant enough to warrant the extra pay and seniority.
- You may be able to get in as a "new" associate but you probably have the odds as a 3L or a recent grad from your school. Although you have the advantage of some experience, you don't have the OCI "machine" working for you nor do you have a career svcs office that has connections at the firms and that the firms need to keep somewhat happy. And in some cases your experience may work against you if the firm thinks it will have to retrain you.

Obviously coming from a school like HYS or being able to show you graduated at the top of your class from another feeder school is going to help your chances of getting an interview post JAG. There is at least one post-JAG that I know of at an elite DC litigation firm.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:19 pm

bahama wrote:Here is the thing with your chances at a firm post JAG: You are not going to get in some place that you couldn't have gotten straight from law school, and likely will have a harder time than someone with equal school and grades who was interviewng through OCI.

- You are not going to be able to come in as a 4th year lateral or whatever most of your law school peers are because your experience isn't relevant enough to warrant the extra pay and seniority.
- You may be able to get in as a "new" associate but you probably have the odds as a 3L or a recent grad from your school. Although you have the advantage of some experience, you don't have the OCI "machine" working for you nor do you have a career svcs office that has connections at the firms and that the firms need to keep somewhat happy. And in some cases your experience may work against you if the firm thinks it will have to retrain you.

Obviously coming from a school like HYS or being able to show you graduated at the top of your class from another feeder school is going to help your chances of getting an interview post JAG. There is at least one post-JAG that I know of at an elite DC litigation firm.


I'd say your odds as getting into biglaw as a "new" associate are shittier then a 3L or recent grad from your school after 3-4 years of JAG. The HYS nametag is a good one for biglaw, but not so much after spending years in JAG. I know with biglaw prestige is a lot bigger factor then in other places but for the most part what a top school degree gets you is that foot into that first job (this is really true with pretty much any degree). It's going to be a lot more about what you did 4 years out then about where you went to school. By working at JAG you didn't work at a large law firm, didn't do what a typical associate does (whether it be complex transactions or complex civil litigation), didn't develop the relationships with clients that a typical 4th or 5th year associate should have, etc, etc. I think you would need some serious countervailing factors weighing in your favor to go into biglaw after JAG (such as you're good friends with numerous partners at the firm you want to go to). So in other words, it possible to go from JAG --> biglaw, but pretty unlikely. An additional consideration is why the hell would you even want to work in biglaw after spending 4 years in JAG? The typical law school grad that goes into biglaw does it right after graduation, spends a few years there, hates life but manages for a few year while paying down student loans and getting a headstart financially, and then get's the fuck out (or is forced out) and makes use of the numerous exit options that are available as a former biglaw associate.

bahama
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby bahama » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:07 pm

Deleted double post.
Last edited by bahama on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bahama
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby bahama » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:25 pm

If you did find a Big Law job after JAG, you'd almost certainly be coming in as a "new" first year associate while your law school classmates who started at the firm upon graduation would be 4th or 5th year associates.

You would be competing for the very few entry level associate positions available outside of OCI against some former clerks who didn't have something lined up or whose plans changed, a bunch of 3Ls, random junior associates who got laid off when their firm collapsed or downsized, and other people trying to make the transition that you are from govt or something to a firm. In other words lots of people going after very few open spots.

Fiction
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby Fiction » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:05 pm

edit
Last edited by Fiction on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

enigmaingr
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby enigmaingr » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:19 pm

Along with what others said about the best exit options usually being government or small/solo private practice, it's important to be aware of the types of people attracted to Biglaw and JAG. Typically, a person who wants Biglaw is not the same type of person that would consider JAG and vice versa.

While it may be possible to go JAG --> Biglaw, I doubt that you'd even want to after four years in the military. That prestige and money just won't motivate you anymore.

princepointe
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby princepointe » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:45 pm

Fiction wrote:Thanks for the input, but ugh...

Everyone seems to preface their advice/comments with "Now I'm not a JAG, so take this as you will, but...".

Nice of people to give the warning, but I wish someone from JAG could help out. So far in all the forum posts and websites I've read, everyone is either ONLY a serviceman or only a lawyer/law student.



Really? Do you really expect that JAG lawyers will be on this forum? Thats like saying you wish Deans of Admissions were here to answer your admissions questions. lol. This is a secondhand forum. This is the type of info your going to get especially regarding such a niche field like JAG.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:32 pm

princepointe wrote:
Fiction wrote:Thanks for the input, but ugh...

Everyone seems to preface their advice/comments with "Now I'm not a JAG, so take this as you will, but...".

Nice of people to give the warning, but I wish someone from JAG could help out. So far in all the forum posts and websites I've read, everyone is either ONLY a serviceman or only a lawyer/law student.



Really? Do you really expect that JAG lawyers will be on this forum? Thats like saying you wish Deans of Admissions were here to answer your admissions questions. lol. This is a secondhand forum. This is the type of info your going to get especially regarding such a niche field like JAG.


There actually is at least one dean of admissions that comes here and answers prospective student questions.

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Undead_Ed
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Re: Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service?

Postby Undead_Ed » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:07 am

princepointe wrote:Really? Do you really expect that JAG lawyers will be on this forum? Thats like saying you wish Deans of Admissions were here to answer your admissions questions. lol. This is a secondhand forum. This is the type of info your going to get especially regarding such a niche field like JAG.


Well, maybe not in this forum, but there are at least two JAGs that post regularly in the "Military Law" forum. Also there are a number of former servicemembers and law students in the application process.

Have any of you guys heard of a firm called Holland and Hart? They are probably among the most reputable in the West, and probably the closest thing to "BigLaw" that we have. There is a guy there who is a former Air Force Judge after having done 20 years. However, he is Of Counsel. They didn't start him on the associate/partner path. I think that means he probably can't make partner, but I'm not sure. I think this means that once you start doing the JAG path, it would be hard to start over. But you can always lock in a sweet job in addition to your half-pay stipend for life.




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