A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

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Murdock
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A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby Murdock » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:45 pm

*answered - delete*
Last edited by Murdock on Sat May 23, 2015 6:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

norkanite
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby norkanite » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:07 pm

.
Last edited by norkanite on Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Murdock
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby Murdock » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:11 pm

norkanite wrote:If I were you, I would email this word-for-word to the partners you've met and expect to work with during your summer.


:mrgreen:

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sd5289
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby sd5289 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:13 pm

I mean, you certainly weren't "accused" of anything in this scenario.

Being the "subject" of an investigation means you were the target of the investigation, a/k/a their "suspect" in whatever crime they're investigating. That doesn't sound like this scenario either.

Part of me thinks that this is so damn minor that disclosing it isn't going to do anything negative to you with regards to C&F (you could've been arrested for supplying alcohol to a minor, and so long as you disclose it, most state bars just don't care). But I actually don't think these questions regarding criminal conduct apply to you. That said, no one on this board can give you actual advice on this if you're truly worried about it. Only a C&F attorney can do that for you.

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sd5289
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby sd5289 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:14 pm

norkanite wrote:If I were you, I would email this word-for-word to the partners you've met and expect to work with during your summer.


I dunno, if anything this would make me like him more. Especially after turning "Douchebucket" into a major character / antagonist in his story.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:58 pm

Yeah, I don't think this counts as being accused or the subject of investigation. Douchebucket was; they just asked you questions. If you were Douchebucket or friend roommate, the answer might be different.

imacpa
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby imacpa » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:21 pm

Murdock wrote:'Ello folks,

Current 2L here. I apologize in advance for this extremely stupid C&F question.

I am in a state with an extremely broad question about past criminal conduct. It asks whether I have "ever been arrested, charged, cited, accused, or prosecuted for any crime by a law enforcement agency," or "have ever been the subject of any investigation by a law enforcement agency, civil or administrative agency, professional organization, corporation, board or any other agency..."

I have never been arrested, cited, or charged with any crime. I have never even received a speeding ticket. Or a parking ticket for that matter. But I am wondering whether I have to disclose anything from this dumb story about my apartment mates getting in trouble with the police (I realize the general rule is to disclose, but, as you will see, I'm currently leaning against it because my involvement in this is so peripheral that I am embarrassed to disclose it):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My senior year of undergrad I had a "party" at the on-campus apartment I shared with three roommates. I put party in quotes because there were like 8 people. One of my roommates was a douchebucket. Douchebucket invited one of his friends, a sophomore-year girl (under 21). She came to the party with a water bottle of vodka and orange juice. We had all met her before, but she was only really friendly with douchebucket. So basically she hung out with him and his friends, and I hung out with my friends. Party went fine, me and my friend left for another party with some people, night ended.

The next day two campus police officers came to our apartment. Turns out Douchebucket's friend ended up getting really drunk by the end of the night and the police were retracing her steps. I barely spoke to them at all, but they did write down all four of our names and student ID numbers. Long story short, they initially talked to all of us about whether she was drinking there (my roommate told them she had her own drink but we couldn't say for sure she didn't drink anything here), but then they pretty quickly focused on Douchebucket and making sure he didn't drug her. They asked Douchebucket if he had any drugs or drug paraphernalia, and he gave them a weed pipe he had (I don't smoke weed). My friend roommate also gave them a weed grinder. When I was asked I simply told the truth, that I didn't use drugs and didn't have anything to turn over. They left.

Douchebucket and my friend roommate weren't arrested, but they got referred to the dean for drug paraphernalia. Douchebucket got investigated more after the fact because, until tests apparently came back negative, they were wondering if he'd drugged her.

I never did anything wrong, and, more importantly, was never cited with anything, arrested, referred to the dean, or anything. Zero official trouble or paperwork of any kind. Which was appropriate, seeing as I didn't do anything illegal. I moved into a different apartment my next semester.

As a side note, the cops ended up going to bat for my friend roommate. I represented my friend roommate before the Judicial Council and when asked whether my roommate was cooperative, the cop replied "Yes, so much so it was to your detriment." The other cop gave me advice for my friend's hearing, told me that I should consider a career as a police detective or a criminal defense lawyer, and thanked me for helping out my friend roommate (they only wanted to get Douchebucket, and were mad that my friend roommate had volunteered his drug paraphernalia because they took a liking to him). Not sure what that has to do with my question, but it was funny nonetheless.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there ya go, a long, rambling story about me being in proximity to other people doing illegal things and talking to the police. Any need to disclose? Was I, under any reasonable interpretation, "accused" of a crime or the "subject of an investigation" when the police spoke to us all? Could that question possibly be asking me to disclose informal contact with the police? I assumed, since the instructions all talk about providing the "name of the court" and other official stuff, that it required something more formal than a stern talk with a cop.

I'm going to get a consultation with a C&F lawyer next year to see what they say, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts now. My hunch is that I'm just being an anxious loser. I have a summer associate position lined up, so I don't want to mess that up.

Whatta y'all think?


A C&F attorney can best answer this but I agree with the others. You were not the subject of the investigation but more or less a witness. Personally, I wouldn't disclose it for those reasons but your C&F attorney can better advise you.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:30 pm

I disagree with the others that think you weren't the "subject of an investigation." I do not think "subject" = "prime suspect." You were interrogated by police and could have instantly become a "suspect" if they found any incriminating evidence on your part.

Significantly more importantly, the downside to disclosing the story is zero. The downside to not disclosing is minimal, but that downside is significant.

Disclose it, explain the story, move on, and don't stress about it. You don't need an attorney to answer this.
Last edited by AVBucks4239 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:34 pm

Yeah disclose, no one will care at all.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:39 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Yeah disclose, no one will care at all.

Ya, this is something I didn't emphasize enough.

I say this in every disclosure thread, but I was arrested for underage possession of alcohol when I was 18. I obviously disclosed it and at my C&F interview, the interviewers said something along the lines of, "At least we know you like to party."

So, there is absolutely positively zero negative to disclosing, so just disclose it. Absolutely nobody will care.

071816
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby 071816 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:50 pm

[REDACTED FROM THESE FORA]
Last edited by 071816 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

daleearnhardt123
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:53 pm

Let me get the obligatory "not a lawyer, and this isn't C&F advice" disclosure out of the way before I dispense some common sense, something this thread is woefully lacking.

First, how do you even remember something this trivial? Do you remember every instance in your life where an acquaintance of yours was accused of something? Do you really think you need to report this? If so, how about the following:

-The police suspect there is a drug-dealer on your block. In the course of speaking with all neighbors they come to your door, question you, and ask to perform a consent search. They find nothing and wish you a pleasant day. Report?

-Your high school principal comes to learn that a textbook was stolen in a classroom which you were known to be in. The principal calls you into your office to ask you about the matter. You inform her that you don't steal textbooks, and she sends you on your way. Report?

-Your mom finds that the remote control to the TV is missing and concludes that either you or your sister must be the culprit. She interrogates both of you, neither confess, but she grounds each of you for a week. Report?

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AVBucks4239
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:32 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:Let me get the obligatory "not a lawyer, and this isn't C&F advice" disclosure out of the way before I dispense some common sense, something this thread is woefully lacking.

First, how do you even remember something this trivial? Do you remember every instance in your life where an acquaintance of yours was accused of something? Do you really think you need to report this? If so, how about the following:

-The police suspect there is a drug-dealer on your block. In the course of speaking with all neighbors they come to your door, question you, and ask to perform a consent search. They find nothing and wish you a pleasant day. Report?

-Your high school principal comes to learn that a textbook was stolen in a classroom which you were known to be in. The principal calls you into your office to ask you about the matter. You inform her that you don't steal textbooks, and she sends you on your way. Report?

-Your mom finds that the remote control to the TV is missing and concludes that either you or your sister must be the culprit. She interrogates both of you, neither confess, but she grounds each of you for a week. Report?

Considering the question asks for interrogation from a "law enforcement agency," no to the final two. I'd probably report the first one, though, given the breadth of the question OP listed.

ETA: LOL at "dispensing common sense." You're going to hate judges and clients, man.
Last edited by AVBucks4239 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desert Fox
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:48 pm

BTW I am honorbound to report you all for practicing law without a license. As you should well no, you can't say "I'm not a lawyer but here is some legal advice."

Please PM me your names.

Murdock
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby Murdock » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:58 pm

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

BTW, hypothetically, if I wanted to request any police incident reports that might be connected to this so I can take a look at them and/or have them to disclose this, can I just call up the campus police and ask them if they can send me any incident reports that mention my name? Or is that not something which is generally publicly available?

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encore1101
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby encore1101 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:13 pm

you can call and ask, but i imagine they'd just tell you to submit a ferpa request for the school itself, and Freedom of Information Act/Law (if your state has an equivalent) for the campus police

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MarkfromWI
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Re: A Dumb Character & Fitness Question

Postby MarkfromWI » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:27 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:Let me get the obligatory "not a lawyer, and this isn't C&F advice" disclosure out of the way before I dispense some common sense, something this thread is woefully lacking.

First, how do you even remember something this trivial? Do you remember every instance in your life where an acquaintance of yours was accused of something? Do you really think you need to report this? If so, how about the following:

-The police suspect there is a drug-dealer on your block. In the course of speaking with all neighbors they come to your door, question you, and ask to perform a consent search. They find nothing and wish you a pleasant day. Report?

-Your high school principal comes to learn that a textbook was stolen in a classroom which you were known to be in. The principal calls you into your office to ask you about the matter. You inform her that you don't steal textbooks, and she sends you on your way. Report?

-Your mom finds that the remote control to the TV is missing and concludes that either you or your sister must be the culprit. She interrogates both of you, neither confess, but she grounds each of you for a week. Report?

Considering the question asks for interrogation from a "law enforcement agency," no to the final two. I'd probably report the first one, though, given the breadth of the question OP listed.

ETA: LOL at "dispensing common sense." You're going to hate judges and clients, man.



Lol at him saying he's going to "dispense common sense" before asking 6 questions and making no affirmative statement of fact.




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