NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

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Mamba1991
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NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby Mamba1991 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:43 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/busin ... 9773522000

I figured it was safe to post this in the current Law Students Forum, insulated from the omnipresent fear mongering we see in other forums. The author points to some good indicators of law firm growth and increased revenues in the last few years. While the article does acknowledge possible long-term shifts in the market as far as automation in research/ doc review, it predicts that most shifts will manifest themselves in the addition of in house counsels and expansions of compliance departments, rather than a fundamental shrinking in the market. Any thoughts on this?

"At the top law schools, things are returning to the years before the financial crisis. Last year, 93.2 percent of the 645 students of the Georgetown Law class of 2013 were employed. Sixty percent of the 2013 graduates were in the private sector with a median starting salary of $160,000. The top 10 schools have even higher employment rates for the class of 2010, and employment statistics for 2014 are expected to rise. "

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:24 pm

Mamba1991 wrote:
"At the top law schools, things are returning to the years before the financial crisis. Last year, 93.2 percent of the 645 students of the Georgetown Law class of 2013 were employed. Sixty percent of the 2013 graduates were in the private sector with a median starting salary of $160,000. The top 10 schools have even higher employment rates for the class of 2010, and employment statistics for 2014 are expected to rise. "


this is rather deceptively phrased

but yes I think consensus is the market is improving

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twenty
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby twenty » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:33 pm

The downside is, the industry improving is really only half of the problem. The other half is cost of attendance. Even if the market rebounds to pre-2007 level hiring, we're coming up on 350k COA numbers pretty fast. When you're talking 5 years of biglaw at an absolute minimum to repay sticker debt, my hope is that the TLS mantra evolves into "retake the LSAT, bargain for a larger scholarship."

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sd5289
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby sd5289 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:36 pm

ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.

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bruinfan10
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby bruinfan10 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:17 am

Mamba1991 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/business/dealbook/despite-forecasts-of-doom-signs-of-life-in-the-legal-industry.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000

I figured it was safe to post this in the current Law Students Forum, insulated from the omnipresent fear mongering we see in other forums.

:lol:

sd5289 wrote:ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.

dumbs gonna dumb, i guess...

Mamba1991
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby Mamba1991 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:19 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
Mamba1991 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/business/dealbook/despite-forecasts-of-doom-signs-of-life-in-the-legal-industry.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000

I figured it was safe to post this in the current Law Students Forum, insulated from the omnipresent fear mongering we see in other forums.

:lol:

sd5289 wrote:ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.

dumbs gonna dumb, i guess...


not sure what purpose is served by willful ignorance to improving market conditions within a forum comprised fully of current law students....the legal market, like most others, is still depressed and has a long way to go. But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.

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twenty
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby twenty » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:37 pm

Mamba1991 wrote:But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.


Even if that's true (which it probably isn't), that's likely a good thing. Potential law students have a strong confirmation bias in favor of going to law school, to the extent that "the market is steadily improving" = "NOW IS THE BEST TIME TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL BUY BUY BUY" even if that's objectively not-TCR for the individual.

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sd5289
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby sd5289 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:25 pm

Mamba1991 wrote:not sure what purpose is served by willful ignorance to improving market conditions within a forum comprised fully of current law students....the legal market, like most others, is still depressed and has a long way to go. But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.


Anyone going to law school because "it's not as bad as it was anymore," or "hey, NOW's the best time to go to law school because falling entrance standards lulz" should not go to law school.

This may sound harsh, but anyone entertaining the idea of going to law school with either of these in mind clearly hasn't realized that the only (and I do, truly, mean "only") reason you go to law school is because you know you want to practice as a lawyer. That's it. And even then, it might be too much of a risk depending on school(s) you get into, COA, target market, etc. I know law schools like to tout the "PI gunner coming in who took one tax class during 3L and holy shit now she's doing tax law" anecdote during their ASD's, but in reality, that just doesn't happen anymore. My 3L friends with jobs differ from my 3L friends without jobs in one very important respect: they had a good grasp of not only the whole "going to law school to be a practicing lawyer" thing, but they also had a good idea of what field and where. The hustle starts almost immediately, and the 0Ls coming in with zero clue about what they want to do are often left in the dust.

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baal hadad
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby baal hadad » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:06 am

Mamba1991 wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
Mamba1991 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/business/dealbook/despite-forecasts-of-doom-signs-of-life-in-the-legal-industry.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000

I figured it was safe to post this in the current Law Students Forum, insulated from the omnipresent fear mongering we see in other forums.

:lol:

sd5289 wrote:ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.

dumbs gonna dumb, i guess...


not sure what purpose is served by willful ignorance to improving market conditions within a forum comprised fully of current law students....the legal market, like most others, is still depressed and has a long way to go. But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.

I think this is a good point

After people take lifeboats off the titanic there will be plenty of deck chairs available to chill on

Go to law skool now man

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JohannDeMann
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:57 am

I mean thank god it's showing life. Corps have been running record profits for years now.

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sd5289
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby sd5289 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:18 pm

baal hadad wrote:
Mamba1991 wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
Mamba1991 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/business/dealbook/despite-forecasts-of-doom-signs-of-life-in-the-legal-industry.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000

I figured it was safe to post this in the current Law Students Forum, insulated from the omnipresent fear mongering we see in other forums.

:lol:

sd5289 wrote:ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.

dumbs gonna dumb, i guess...


not sure what purpose is served by willful ignorance to improving market conditions within a forum comprised fully of current law students....the legal market, like most others, is still depressed and has a long way to go. But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.

I think this is a good point

After people take lifeboats off the titanic there will be plenty of deck chairs available to chill on

Go to law skool now man


I mean, according to the movie there was even a string quartet to jam to as you lounged around on the deck.

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CaptainJapan
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby CaptainJapan » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:26 pm

Mamba1991 wrote:not sure what purpose is served by willful ignorance to improving market conditions within a forum comprised fully of current law students....the legal market, like most others, is still depressed and has a long way to go. But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.



You're underestimating how cool it is to be blasé on internet forums.

Mamba1991
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby Mamba1991 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:36 pm

baal hadad wrote:
Mamba1991 wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
Mamba1991 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/business/dealbook/despite-forecasts-of-doom-signs-of-life-in-the-legal-industry.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000

I figured it was safe to post this in the current Law Students Forum, insulated from the omnipresent fear mongering we see in other forums.

:lol:

sd5289 wrote:ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.

dumbs gonna dumb, i guess...


not sure what purpose is served by willful ignorance to improving market conditions within a forum comprised fully of current law students....the legal market, like most others, is still depressed and has a long way to go. But among current law students, I'm confused as to what purpose is served by this constant refusal to acknowledge improving conditions. We're all law students entering this market. So absent information that will assist 0Ls in their serious career decisions, there's no reason to ignore some of these facts.

I think this is a good point

After people take lifeboats off the titanic there will be plenty of deck chairs available to chill on

Go to law skool now man


Improving market conditions include overall private sector hiring increases (average SA class at highest level since 2009) as well as offer rates going up among firms. Additionally, firm revenue has consistently outpaced inflation and is at record levels this year, though revenue per partner hasn't moved much. These objective measures don't change the fact that 0Ls continue make the awful decision to take out massive loans to finance sub-par legal educations. My point is that this forum is meant for current law students and when there are positive market shifts we should acknowledge them like we do when we hear negative news.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: NYT: Law Schools and Industry Show Signs of Life

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:24 pm

sd5289 wrote:ATL already did a fairly decent takedown of this piece.


I mean, I wrote it for ATL, but it was LST all the way. 8)




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