Blank 2L Summer

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JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:02 pm

I assure you, this situation is happening. No trolling. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm getting defensive because I actually am getting a lot of good advice here. Even though it is harsh, I appreciate that you think this is what I need to hear.

Also, what is so wrong with tutoring people for the LSAT? Should I not do it even if I do suck it up and go to work at my dad's/my previous employer?

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Actus Reus
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Actus Reus » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:08 pm

You're never going to be a professor.

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North
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby North » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:11 pm

Tutoring for the LSAT does nothing to get you closer to a job as a lawyer. Also, you don't seem to be very good at thinking through things so you probably would be bad at it.

Like, for someone who says he doesn't want to impose on anyone, you don't seem to have taken a fucking ounce of responsibility for learning what you can do with a law degree and how you go about getting to do those things. You should know that there are a ton of unemployed law grads who would kill you with their bare hands to have a dad with a solo practice doing work they don't like that they could impose their way into.

I think you are in for a very disappointing next few years.

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Clearly
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Clearly » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:20 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:I assure you, this situation is happening. No trolling. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm getting defensive because I actually am getting a lot of good advice here. Even though it is harsh, I appreciate that you think this is what I need to hear.

Also, what is so wrong with tutoring people for the LSAT? Should I not do it even if I do suck it up and go to work at my dad's/my previous employer?

I was thinking for the sake of the kids, but this is also true. Kidding aside though what are you doing man, you sound like you have a good altitude so I'll take back my joke, but you do sound painfully entitled and misled about things and you need to hit the bricks hard and realize that from where you stand right now you are 110% screwed. You study law but don't want to practice it, but you want to teach it with good but not grades from a terrible school and don't want to do law in the infinite time between now and when that doesn't happen. Seriously spend a night reflecting on your career aspirations because things are looking bad. Best of luck.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:21 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:I never said I wanted to do transactional work. Right now, I'm having a tough time deciding exactly what I want to do. I know I do NOT want to do litigation, and transactional work seems equally as bad but I'm not sure. And I know being a law professor is something that, if it does happen, will happen a long was down the road. After I get my LLM and hopefully get some thing published. It's the in between that's bothering me.

You don't get hired as a professor by "get[ting] something published." As a law professor, what you do for a living is write articles and get them published. It's not a requirement to get into the field; it's the whole job. You've already said you don't like legal writing.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:22 pm

North wrote:Tutoring for the LSAT does nothing to get you closer to a job as a lawyer. Also, you don't seem to be very good at thinking through things so you probably would be bad at it.

Like, for someone who says he doesn't want to impose on anyone, you don't seem to have taken a fucking ounce of responsibility for learning what you can do with a law degree and how you go about getting to do those things. You should know that there are a ton of unemployed law grads who would kill you with their bare hands to have a dad with a solo practice doing work they don't like that they could impose their way into.

I think you are in for a very disappointing next few years.


I did very well on the LSAT, so I think it'd be pretty good at teaching it. But hey, whatever you want to think.

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MistakenGenius
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Post removed.

Postby MistakenGenius » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:22 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by MistakenGenius on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

souzakid
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby souzakid » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:51 am

MistakenGenius wrote:OP, I genuinely hope you're a very clever flame and am leaning that way. However, since others might have this scenario and will find this topic, I will try to give a very thorough answer to you.

First, as others have said, give up on being a law professor. I'm all for people following their dreams, but you messed up when you chose your current law school. The only way you can come back from a bottom T2 school is to have a resume along the lines of PHD from a top program, top 5% of your class, EIC of your school's flagship law review, COA clerkship, published notes, and have things go your way. You're a slightly above average student at a below average school. You have none of those other qualifications, so I feel very safe saying you'll never be a full-time law professor. I'm not trying to insult you, becoming a legal academic is very difficult from even the T14, it's just necessary for you to realize that that option is off the table now.

I also agree that you don't seem to realize how bad not having a job your 2L summer is. And by job, we do not just mean legal experience. We mean a job with a firm or organization that has potential to lead to a long-term, full-time job offer after graduation. If you do not have that kind of offer, you end up in your 3L year not knowing if you'll find work (and because the vast majority of firms only hire from 2L OCI), then you likely won't find work. Not having that job offer can literally destroy your entire career. Fuck your financial reasons for staying in your city and fuck your rent you're paying. It doesn't matter if you have to go to Maine or Alaska or American Samoa to find that job offer, it's worth it. It doesn't matter if you have to pay quadruple rent if it means having that job. If you keep up this naive little bullshit, your life will essentially be ruined. I want you to surf this link right here. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753 You will almost certainly be in the exact same position if you stay on your current path, albeit from a worse school than many of them.

That's another thing, I don't know why you think you deserve job offers pouring in, but you don't. You're from a below average school and have good but not great grades. You have no major legal experience, are not on law review or moot court, and appear to have no hook. Get the fuck over yourself. You don't deserve anything, and should be busting your ass trying to find legal work of any kind.

Finally, we come to my real advice. Drop out now before you have to waste any more money. This is a major waste of time and money for you with no payoff. You say you absolutely do not want to do litigation because it's too much work and time consuming. You also don't want to do transactional work because of the same reason and because you hate the stuffy office atmosphere. As I already said, you will never be a professor, so litigation or transactional work is all there is for you. On top of not wanting to practice law, you don't like legal writing. Kid, you don't want to be a lawyer.You're going into debt for a job you don't want to do. Drop out and go figure out what you want to do with your life. Maybe get a masters in something and teach high school.

Edit: Define very well on the LSAT


/thread

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jbagelboy
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:58 am

sadly, I would not be surprised if many, even a plurality, of law students at schools in this tier found themselves in similarly dire circumstances as OP, and like him, without even realizing at the time what's going on

if I were you I wouldn't pay a dime more in tuition to this school since it doesn't seem to have given you anything back for your investment of time, money and emotional resources.

Nomo
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Nomo » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:49 am

OP, I actually think you do deserve to get a legal job. I think someone who graduates in the top half of their class at a below average, but not terrible, law school deserves to have a legal career.

But it doesn't matter what you deserve. A lot of people with above average grades at average law schools don't get legal careers. And there is a serious chance you could become one of those people. You need to work hard for someone who could potentially hire you. Even if they don't hire you, you're at least building a reference and a network, which is important. You need to be seeking externships, internships, and part-time work from now until the day you take the bar. You are quickly running out of time.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:10 am

Thanks everyone for responding. I, once again, assure you that this situation is really happening and I appreciate everyone's concern. I honestly wish I would have gotten on here as a 1L or 0L. I'm going to write a few things because I can't respond to everything everyone has written.

1) Our career services department is actually pretty good. They are constantly sending out emails with open positions in the reason and really go the extra mile to helping people get employed. Our 1L class had like a 85% rate of getting legal employment over that summer, and I credit that to the CSD. I admit I've done a shitty job of meeting them halfway.

2) I will not drop out. I've already sunk a lot of money into law school and I know there are some advantages of me getting a JD

3) I understand my grades do not guarantee me a job. However, it gets frustrating when I see people ranked lower than me (I'm in the top 15) in the class getting OCI jobs for firms that I want. I know that hustling is important, but when you have OCI's I assume we are on a level playing field where grades > most other things.

4) I will try to look around and get more opportunities. This thread made me realize how critical of a mistake I was making. However, I am not going to toil away for a summer doing something/being somewhere I hate that also isn't a good financial decision to transplant myself to.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Capitol_Idea » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:46 am

It sounds like you're coming around and also are probably not a troll, so I'll try not to crap on your dreams further. BUT:

JimmyTheGreek wrote:However, I am not going to toil away for a summer doing something/being somewhere I hate that also isn't a good financial decision to transplant myself to.


You really need to get over personal preferences at this point in favor of boosting your employment chances. I agree that work which provides no long-term benefit is pointless - but no one's advocating that here. Rather, you need to swallow your pride and personal preferences and do whatever it takes to get something on the resume - or live with your personal preferences and complete lack of a job.

You know who get to have personal preferences? Harvard and Yale students. And even some of THEM have to take a second place choice. I'm at GULC, barely clinging to the underbelly of the t14, and you better believe I had to hustle and work hard to get my SA. I also had dreams of professorship btw before this thread lightly disabused me of them - seriously it is for a small number of well-connected Yale/Harvard students only.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:48 pm

I know this is going to get raked over the coals, but I did have an idea for being able to just go ahead with my current situation.

Would it be possible to just put on my resume that I worked at my dad's firm, even though he's sending me about 10 hours of work a week and I'm technically not even there? Future employer's won't know, they're just looking what I will put down on the resume. That way I can continue on my current path and give off the impression that I worked at a law firm, which I technically did.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:48 pm

What is your current path?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:50 pm

I suggest following all of your instincts. You seem to have a real handle on this whole employment thing.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Capitol_Idea » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:55 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:What is your current path?

At this rate? Crack whore. Assistant crack whore, probs.

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BlueLotus
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:56 pm

Call your local legal aid agencies and ask if they're willing to take on a volunteer for the summer. Seriously, you cannot afford to be picky at this point. Paid or not, you need something legal on your resume for summer 2015. I don't think you realize how dire your situation is. A friend of mine had nothing his 1L and 2L summer and he cannot for the life of him find FTLT JD required employment. Blank 2L summer is a huuuuge red flag.

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rpupkin
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby rpupkin » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:01 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Call your local legal aid agencies and ask if they're willing to take on a volunteer for the summer. Seriously, you cannot afford to be picky at this point. Paid or not, you need something legal on your resume for summer 2015. I don't think you realize how dire your situation is. A friend of mine had nothing his 1L and 2L summer and he cannot for the life of him find FTLT JD required employment. Blank 2L summer is a huuuuge red flag.

You're basically affirming the OP's new "plan" to work for his Dad for a few hours a week and then put on his resume that he worked at his Dad's firm. But the "blank resume" issue isn't the OP's biggest problem. The real problem is that the OP does not have any viable post-law-school opportunities. His 2L summer should be about finding/creating those opportunities, not about creating resume filler.

PinkRevolver
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby PinkRevolver » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:06 pm

Ummm why can't you just sublet your apartment to somebody if you get a job in a different state so that you don't have to pay "double rent?" You really need to focus on getting a legal job by any means necessary and stop being stubborn. Look at the bigger picture. They guy above me is right. You have no right to be so picky, no offense. Being Top 20% at a higher ranked school might be a good feat, but coming from a school at the bottom of T2, you really need to be like, one of the top 5 students.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:07 pm

rpupkin wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Call your local legal aid agencies and ask if they're willing to take on a volunteer for the summer. Seriously, you cannot afford to be picky at this point. Paid or not, you need something legal on your resume for summer 2015. I don't think you realize how dire your situation is. A friend of mine had nothing his 1L and 2L summer and he cannot for the life of him find FTLT JD required employment. Blank 2L summer is a huuuuge red flag.

You're basically affirming the OP's new "plan" to work for his Dad for a few hours a week and then put on his resume that he worked at his Dad's firm. But the "blank resume" issue isn't the OP's biggest problem. The real problem is that the OP does not have any viable post-law-school opportunities. His 2L summer should be about finding/creating those opportunities, not about creating resume filler.


I understand what you're saying, but I think what I will try to do is OCIs in the fall and hopefully land a firm job from those. My grades are good enough, I just can't have a blank summer on my resume. Instead, I can put my dad's summer work. I know it isn't ideal, but it will fill the gap and at least give me a fighting chance.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:11 pm

zacharus85 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:What is your current path?

At this rate? Crack whore. Assistant crack whore, probs.


unnecessary

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mephistopheles
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby mephistopheles » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:19 pm

good luck

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rpupkin
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby rpupkin » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:44 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:I understand what you're saying, but I think what I will try to do is OCIs in the fall and hopefully land a firm job from those. My grades are good enough, I just can't have a blank summer on my resume. Instead, I can put my dad's summer work. I know it isn't ideal, but it will fill the gap and at least give me a fighting chance.

I don't know how it is at your school, but at most schools it is really, really hard to land a job through 3L OCI. Instead of waiting until the fall to hustle to find a job through OCI, why don't you do the work now of looking for a job!?!? Do everything you can to secure a summer job that might lead to something after graduation. I know that it's tough to find something in April, but it will almost surely be easier to find a summer job now than it will be to find a post-grad job at 3L OCI.

Also, what jobs would you even apply for at 3L OCI? Based on what you've shared on TLS, you aren't interested in any aspect of legal employment. If you actually try working at a legal job this summer, you might learn something about what you want out of a career. Tutoring the LSAT, waiting tables, and doing sham legal work for your Dad's firm (where you refuse to work post-grad) aren't going to move the ball at all. C'mon, dude.

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North
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby North » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:25 pm

Spoiler Alert: There is a 99.99% you will strike out at 3L OCI too. Very, very few people get a full-time, long-term legal job out of 3L OCI. Even at T14s. For the most part, it's just people who have full-time post-grad offers somewhere switching firms. You're not going to be one of them, even if you pretend to work at your dad's firm this summer.

rpulkin is 100% right and you are (and very consistently have been as evinced by this thread) wrong. Now is the time for you take responsibility for your future. Not next fall. Now. Do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you have to to get ANY job that gives you a CHANCE to be a lawyer.

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cyrilfiggis
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby cyrilfiggis » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:24 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote: I honestly wish I would have gotten on here as a 1L or 0L.


/thread




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