Blank 2L Summer

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JimmyTheGreek
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Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:21 pm

Hey ya'll,

I am a 2L at a T2 law school ranked between 80-90 It is a regional school that places very well within the state. My first summer I struck out at OCI's and ended up working at a solo practitioner's office. It was a lot of fun work that covered a wide range of legal topics from property to PI. I struck out at OCI's again as a 2L and now am facing the possibility that I won't have a job over the summer. I really want to be a law professor, but I understand that I probably need some experience in practice before I get on that path. My question is, will any well-paying employers care that I didn't have a legal job during my 2L summer when they look at me for my 3L year?

Here are some facts about me.

1) I do very well in my classes. Probably top 20%. Not on law review or moot court, though I am trying to write onto LR as a 3L and with my GPA I'll probably have a good chance of getting on that way.

2) Financially I'm kind of tied to where I'm at. My father pays my apartment's utilities and I take the rest out of loans. Unless I had a salary from an OCI job, I knew my options would be limited to paying options that only exist in the area. I will not be able to pay double rent at my apartment and wherever I would work in the summer.

3) Aside from legal jobs, I'm just looking for a job over the summer that will pay my bills.

TheDogWhisperer
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Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:55 pm

Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby TheDogWhisperer » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:27 pm

Hey sorry to hear about your struggle. Becoming a professor will be almost impossible b/c of your school and rank. Even t14s outside HYS (and even those at HYS) will have a hard time getting into academia. Do you speak any language other than English? Maybe a small immigration firm might be willing to hire you.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:34 pm

TheDogWhisperer wrote:Hey sorry to hear about your struggle. Becoming a professor will be almost impossible b/c of your school and rank. Even t14s outside HYS (and even those at HYS) will have a hard time getting into academia. Do you speak any language other than English? Maybe a small immigration firm might be willing to hire you.


Nope, only speak English. It kinda sucks, because I had the option to apply to a job at my friend's dad's firm, but I didn't because I didn't want everyone to think I was getting something handed to me because he's my friend.

TooOld4This
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby TooOld4This » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:40 pm

Unfortunately, yes. No 2L legal employment will most likely be an automatic disqualifier for market paying legal jobs. Work to get something on your resume. If you can't, then start thinking about your long game. Even though legal hiring is not as tight as it was a couple of years ago, there are still far too many resumes that come in to spend time interviewing individuals without 2L summer associate positions or other substantive experience.

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ReasonableNprudent
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby ReasonableNprudent » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:42 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:
TheDogWhisperer wrote:Hey sorry to hear about your struggle. Becoming a professor will be almost impossible b/c of your school and rank. Even t14s outside HYS (and even those at HYS) will have a hard time getting into academia. Do you speak any language other than English? Maybe a small immigration firm might be willing to hire you.


Nope, only speak English. It kinda sucks, because I had the option to apply to a job at my friend's dad's firm, but I didn't because I didn't want everyone to think I was getting something handed to me because he's my friend.


Horrible strategy. Always capitalize on nepotism.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:44 pm

TooOld4This wrote:Unfortunately, yes. No 2L legal employment will most likely be an automatic disqualifier for market paying legal jobs. Work to get something on your resume. If you can't, then start thinking about your long game. Even though legal hiring is not as tight as it was a couple of years ago, there are still far too many resumes that come in to spend time interviewing individuals without 2L summer associate positions or other substantive experience.


Thanks for the honest response. I do have other substantive experience, as my dad is an attorney and I worked in his office a lot when I was an undergrad. I just don't like the idea of running back home to daddy. I'll keep looking.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:56 pm

I don't think you understand how bad it is to not have a job 2L summer.

TooOld4This
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby TooOld4This » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:57 pm

Get over the fear of having a connection. That gets you in the door. People might resent it for a months or two, but after that your reputation is what you build. Coat tails don't last long and people want to hire a known quantity. Every place I've worked tries to find out as much as possible about an applicant. Personal references should be cultivated, not shunned.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:59 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't think you understand how bad it is to not have a job 2L summer.


It's becoming more and more apparent to me. I thought it wouldn't matter as much since I'm near the top of the class and had a 1L job. I'm guessing it's way worse than not having a 1L job. More explanation would be helpful, since I'm better academically than a lot of people with SAs and I thought that's what we were going to law school for.

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pancakes3
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:06 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:
TheDogWhisperer wrote:Hey sorry to hear about your struggle. Becoming a professor will be almost impossible b/c of your school and rank. Even t14s outside HYS (and even those at HYS) will have a hard time getting into academia. Do you speak any language other than English? Maybe a small immigration firm might be willing to hire you.


Nope, only speak English. It kinda sucks, because I had the option to apply to a job at my friend's dad's firm, but I didn't because I didn't want everyone to think I was getting something handed to me because he's my friend.


Ditch this attitude. Networking matters and connections get you in the door. It will still be up to your merits to keep that job.

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fratstar1
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby fratstar1 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:08 pm

Literally apply everywhere, you need a legal job. You shouldn't even be here you should be hustling.

JimmyTheGreek
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:14 pm

fratstar1 wrote:Literally apply everywhere, you need a legal job. You shouldn't even be here you should be hustling.


Thanks for the response. The problem is, I can't apply everywhere. I can only apply in the city I live in now or my hometown. I can't take any nonepaying job or a job that would require me to move anywhere because I don't want to pay double rent. There are a lot of solo practitioners in this town and I guess I could go back to the one I had just worked for last summer, but I really don't want to do that.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:27 pm

I mean, it seems likely that fewer people from your school are getting market-paying biglaw jobs through OCI than is the case at many of the schools people here are most familiar with, so it's probably more common for people at your school to be looking for jobs through other methods and not getting their post-grad jobs through OCI. That said, yeah, you really need to do something legal this summer, and you need to make as many connections as you can and get as decent experience as you can to be able to sell yourself to employers in the future. (That's any employers, not just well-paying ones.)

If you want to get legal experience you will probably need to consider doing something unpaid like interning in the public sector. Does your school allow you to get credit for externing? If you do so over the summer, you can take out additional loans to pay your expenses. I realize that completely sucks, but not having a legal job this summer will look really bad.

TooOld4This
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby TooOld4This » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:31 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:
fratstar1 wrote:Literally apply everywhere, you need a legal job. You shouldn't even be here you should be hustling.


Thanks for the response. The problem is, I can't apply everywhere. I can only apply in the city I live in now or my hometown. I can't take any nonepaying job or a job that would require me to move anywhere because I don't want to pay double rent. There are a lot of solo practitioners in this town and I guess I could go back to the one I had just worked for last summer, but I really don't want to do that.


This is penny wise and pound foolish. I am a huge proponent of minimizing debt, but your 2L summer is an absolute gating issue for a huge swath of jobs. $5,000 (hopefully less) is absolutely worth applying literally anywhere for a good job this summer.

JimmyTheGreek
Posts: 25
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:33 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, it seems likely that fewer people from your school are getting market-paying biglaw jobs through OCI than is the case at many of the schools people here are most familiar with, so it's probably more common for people at your school to be looking for jobs through other methods and not getting their post-grad jobs through OCI. That said, yeah, you really need to do something legal this summer, and you need to make as many connections as you can and get as decent experience as you can to be able to sell yourself to employers in the future. (That's any employers, not just well-paying ones.)

If you want to get legal experience you will probably need to consider doing something unpaid like interning in the public sector. Does your school allow you to get credit for externing? If you do so over the summer, you can take out additional loans to pay your expenses. I realize that completely sucks, but not having a legal job this summer will look really bad.


That is true. Only like 30 or so jobs are available through OCI's here. I thought I would get one of them. It's just been frustrating because I thought we went to law school to, you know, be proficient in the law. I didn't know my grades wouldn't get me a good job. I thought if I did well then I wouldn't have to scramble for a job, but here I am scrambling.

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fratstar1
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby fratstar1 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:38 pm

Honestly you should like work at prosecutors/defenders office (or wtv) 3 days a week and wait tables the other days to make ends meet. You need to do something for a couple months ya know? it would be helpful to know what market this was.

KM2016
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:20 am

Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby KM2016 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:05 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, it seems likely that fewer people from your school are getting market-paying biglaw jobs through OCI than is the case at many of the schools people here are most familiar with, so it's probably more common for people at your school to be looking for jobs through other methods and not getting their post-grad jobs through OCI. That said, yeah, you really need to do something legal this summer, and you need to make as many connections as you can and get as decent experience as you can to be able to sell yourself to employers in the future. (That's any employers, not just well-paying ones.)

If you want to get legal experience you will probably need to consider doing something unpaid like interning in the public sector. Does your school allow you to get credit for externing? If you do so over the summer, you can take out additional loans to pay your expenses. I realize that completely sucks, but not having a legal job this summer will look really bad.


That is true. Only like 30 or so jobs are available through OCI's here. I thought I would get one of them. It's just been frustrating because I thought we went to law school to, you know, be proficient in the law. I didn't know my grades wouldn't get me a good job. I thought if I did well then I wouldn't have to scramble for a job, but here I am scrambling.


You seem incredibly naive; just because you have decent grades doesn't mean you're entitled to a job. You have good, but not great grades at a T2 regional school. You need to hustle and apply anywhere and everywhere in your market. Not having a legal job 2L summer will severely hurt and maybe even kill your legal career.

Nomo
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Nomo » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:40 pm

At most T2 schools about a third of students don't get a real legal job. If you don't do anything law related your 2L summer you run a serious risk of being in that third, regardless of what you're grades are. Law review is nice and all . . . but the more important thing is that you need to find some sort of legal internship this summer. Then you need to do an externship 3L fall. Then you need to work part-time for whatever firm will hire you during 3L spring.

You are in a very bad position. You need to hustle like crazy.

Nomo
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Nomo » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:48 pm

Also, forget the professor thing. Most law schools are more into layoffs and buyouts than hiring right now. And its hard to see how that changes any time soon.

If you were top 10% at a T-14, EIC of your law review, with a published note, a 9th circuit clerkship, and a biglaw job lined up, then I would tell you that you're a dime a dozen candidate and that if you want to become a professor you're gong to need to publish a couple of good articles to give yourself a reasonable chance.

JimmyTheGreek
Posts: 25
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby JimmyTheGreek » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:55 pm

KM2016 wrote:
JimmyTheGreek wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, it seems likely that fewer people from your school are getting market-paying biglaw jobs through OCI than is the case at many of the schools people here are most familiar with, so it's probably more common for people at your school to be looking for jobs through other methods and not getting their post-grad jobs through OCI. That said, yeah, you really need to do something legal this summer, and you need to make as many connections as you can and get as decent experience as you can to be able to sell yourself to employers in the future. (That's any employers, not just well-paying ones.)

If you want to get legal experience you will probably need to consider doing something unpaid like interning in the public sector. Does your school allow you to get credit for externing? If you do so over the summer, you can take out additional loans to pay your expenses. I realize that completely sucks, but not having a legal job this summer will look really bad.


That is true. Only like 30 or so jobs are available through OCI's here. I thought I would get one of them. It's just been frustrating because I thought we went to law school to, you know, be proficient in the law. I didn't know my grades wouldn't get me a good job. I thought if I did well then I wouldn't have to scramble for a job, but here I am scrambling.


You seem incredibly naive; just because you have decent grades doesn't mean you're entitled to a job. You have good, but not great grades at a T2 regional school. You need to hustle and apply anywhere and everywhere in your market. Not having a legal job 2L summer will severely hurt and maybe even kill your legal career.


Thanks for the response. And maybe I am a bit naive. However, I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to assume that if you do really well in law school (as in, being in the top 20 people in the class) that employers would hire you over people in the middle of the pack. I hope I don't come off as whiny, but the OCI strikeouts and financial limitations that are put on where I can live for the summer have made me feel pretty jaded as far as legal employment goes.

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Clearly
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Clearly » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:07 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:
KM2016 wrote:
JimmyTheGreek wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, it seems likely that fewer people from your school are getting market-paying biglaw jobs through OCI than is the case at many of the schools people here are most familiar with, so it's probably more common for people at your school to be looking for jobs through other methods and not getting their post-grad jobs through OCI. That said, yeah, you really need to do something legal this summer, and you need to make as many connections as you can and get as decent experience as you can to be able to sell yourself to employers in the future. (That's any employers, not just well-paying ones.)

If you want to get legal experience you will probably need to consider doing something unpaid like interning in the public sector. Does your school allow you to get credit for externing? If you do so over the summer, you can take out additional loans to pay your expenses. I realize that completely sucks, but not having a legal job this summer will look really bad.


That is true. Only like 30 or so jobs are available through OCI's here. I thought I would get one of them. It's just been frustrating because I thought we went to law school to, you know, be proficient in the law. I didn't know my grades wouldn't get me a good job. I thought if I did well then I wouldn't have to scramble for a job, but here I am scrambling.


You seem incredibly naive; just because you have decent grades doesn't mean you're entitled to a job. You have good, but not great grades at a T2 regional school. You need to hustle and apply anywhere and everywhere in your market. Not having a legal job 2L summer will severely hurt and maybe even kill your legal career.


Thanks for the response. And maybe I am a bit naive. However, I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to assume that if you do really well in law school (as in, being in the top 20 people in the class) that employers would hire you over people in the middle of the pack. I hope I don't come off as whiny, but the OCI strikeouts and financial limitations that are put on where I can live for the summer have made me feel pretty jaded as far as legal employment goes.

you should hang around this forum more. There's a lot of good information and people that can help you.

jepper
Posts: 159
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby jepper » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:08 pm

You should have come to this site before you struck out at 2L OCI and you would have been jaded way before

ClubberLang
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby ClubberLang » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:19 pm

JimmyTheGreek wrote:
KM2016 wrote:
JimmyTheGreek wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I mean, it seems likely that fewer people from your school are getting market-paying biglaw jobs through OCI than is the case at many of the schools people here are most familiar with, so it's probably more common for people at your school to be looking for jobs through other methods and not getting their post-grad jobs through OCI. That said, yeah, you really need to do something legal this summer, and you need to make as many connections as you can and get as decent experience as you can to be able to sell yourself to employers in the future. (That's any employers, not just well-paying ones.)

If you want to get legal experience you will probably need to consider doing something unpaid like interning in the public sector. Does your school allow you to get credit for externing? If you do so over the summer, you can take out additional loans to pay your expenses. I realize that completely sucks, but not having a legal job this summer will look really bad.


That is true. Only like 30 or so jobs are available through OCI's here. I thought I would get one of them. It's just been frustrating because I thought we went to law school to, you know, be proficient in the law. I didn't know my grades wouldn't get me a good job. I thought if I did well then I wouldn't have to scramble for a job, but here I am scrambling.


You seem incredibly naive; just because you have decent grades doesn't mean you're entitled to a job. You have good, but not great grades at a T2 regional school. You need to hustle and apply anywhere and everywhere in your market. Not having a legal job 2L summer will severely hurt and maybe even kill your legal career.


Thanks for the response. And maybe I am a bit naive. However, I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to assume that if you do really well in law school (as in, being in the top 20 people in the class) that employers would hire you over people in the middle of the pack. I hope I don't come off as whiny, but the OCI strikeouts and financial limitations that are put on where I can live for the summer have made me feel pretty jaded as far as legal employment goes.


If I understand this correctly, your "financial limitations" on where you can live are that you don't want to pay rent twice. However, if you don't work 2L summer, it is very likely that you won't find gainful employment as a lawyer coming out of law school, and forget about the professor nonsense. Consider how much you've invested in this venture already, and 10 weeks rent somewhere is a drop in the bucket. If you want to be a lawyer, now is the time to be busting your ass and not whining about rent and entitlement.

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Actus Reus
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby Actus Reus » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:52 pm

Quite frankly your best financial option is to drop out.

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transferror
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Re: Blank 2L Summer

Postby transferror » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:03 pm

i don't think you understand how dire your situation is




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