Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

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panda595
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby panda595 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:31 am

If I can get straight B's, I'm still in the hunt.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby AReasonableMan » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:39 pm

could you give a range of what school this is? CCN, MVP, T-25, etc. Knowing more without too much as to reveal your identity may be helpful.

if it's a B average this semester, that's doable. the truth is being friendly and pleasant to be around is probably sufficient with many professors to not get under a B- irrespective of how poor your final is. for many profs at top schools, they may only give grades like a D if it is a token to get out of law school. you may just have to focus on learning fewer things, but getting better at applying them to hypothetical situations to at least make a good faith showing that you are capable of applying some law, even the most obvious one to fact, and see multiple sides of the coin.

but there may be things you're doing and ways you're learning that aren't conducive to the actual law school exam structure.it's easy to when something doesn't work to try to make it work by just working harder, but the reality is the actual volume of work is arbitrary by itself. the fear of failure is also obviously stressful so you would have to learn not to take failure personally. professionally,you should consider your career outlook should you achieve your goals from hereon out.

panda595
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby panda595 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:33 am

I don't go to a top 100 law school, but I don't go to the worst law school either.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:36 am

oh god

drop out buddy

panda595
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby panda595 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:56 am

What is your rationale?

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:14 pm

panda595 wrote:What is your rationale?


It's probably an understanding of the harsh reality that in schools outside the top-100, even the top students in your class will have a hard time landing decent legal jobs. You're likely going to be in the bottom of your class (that first semester 1.4 is going to weigh your grades down forever), and you are going to struggle finding a full time job as a lawyer that pays $40k a year. There are people at T-50s in the top of their class who cannot find jobs paying more than that. There are a ton of unemployed recent law grads applying for every open job, most of whom will have better grades from higher ranked schools.

You're facing a very uphill battle to even get a low paying job. If you love the law and are independently wealthy, or your dad has a successful practice that you know you can work at right out of law school, that's one thing. But your job prospects are objectively terrible.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:17 pm

panda595 wrote:I got into a really great law school. I unfortunately didn't do well my first semester due to environmental stress (1.4 GPA) and took a leave of absence. I resumed my second semester but I'm really anxious about meeting the minimum GPA requirements. Honestly, what do you think my chances are and what do I need to do to improve?


panda595 wrote:I don't go to a top 100 law school, but I don't go to the worst law school either.


These two statements are incongruous.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:29 pm

panda595 wrote:What is your rationale?

45 percent of all law graduates will never become attorneys. You go to a school that is not very good. You are virtually guaranteed to be at the bottom of the class. Thus you are virtually guaranteed to not get a job, ever.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby AReasonableMan » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:42 pm

there are inconsistencies that make it suspicious, but in this instance the school is looking to dismiss you because you are bad for them. you hurt their presumably already crappy bar passage, and their job placement. by kicking you and others with similar grades out the TTT school is able to argue to the ABA that they made substantive improvements without making any substantive changes. it's just business. i do think you should look into another field. also, if you really struggled psychologically and the school's only input was to threaten to kick you out, you really should think long and hard on if you want to continue to be in that school.

NYCFAN1
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby NYCFAN1 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:16 pm

no way you got a GPA that low at a t14 (which are the only great schools) -- you should drop out


edit: didn't see you're at a TTT, drop out immediately

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jbagelboy
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:35 pm

runinthefront wrote:unless you're on a full ride and someone's subsidizing your cost of living

or, you're just on a full ride attending Columbia (since I'm under the impression that HYS don't give out letter grades)

I think you should definitely drop out. The odds of you landing a job after a D+ average first semester will be incredibly hard, OP. Anything lower than a B- basically asks as a scarlet letter to employers, and you have a GPA lower than a C- average (and just a tad bit higher than a D+ average).

Assuming you 4.0 all your classes this year, that would still leave you with a 2.7, at which point (unless you're at a T10 on a substantial scholarship) I would still advise you to drop out.

Environmental Pressures/ illnesses / unforeseen circumstances really do and if not flame, I'm sorry to hear that OP. But your legal career is over


Actually, Harvard does assign numerical GPAs, and Columbia does not. But no one would get that many LPs. Moreover, doesn't look like OP went anywhere like this.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby AReasonableMan » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:38 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
runinthefront wrote:unless you're on a full ride and someone's subsidizing your cost of living

or, you're just on a full ride attending Columbia (since I'm under the impression that HYS don't give out letter grades)

I think you should definitely drop out. The odds of you landing a job after a D+ average first semester will be incredibly hard, OP. Anything lower than a B- basically asks as a scarlet letter to employers, and you have a GPA lower than a C- average (and just a tad bit higher than a D+ average).

Assuming you 4.0 all your classes this year, that would still leave you with a 2.7, at which point (unless you're at a T10 on a substantial scholarship) I would still advise you to drop out.

Environmental Pressures/ illnesses / unforeseen circumstances really do and if not flame, I'm sorry to hear that OP. But your legal career is over


Actually, Harvard does assign numerical GPAs, and Columbia does not. But no one would get that many LPs. Moreover, doesn't look like OP went anywhere like this.

I'll go out on a limb and say short of catastrophic mental illness, nobody that gets into Harvard will get a 1.7.

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Chevron Deference
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby Chevron Deference » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:47 pm

Drop out now. Save some money.

Go get a masters degree in public administration and apply for the ATF.

panda595
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby panda595 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:23 am

I have decided to stay and do my best. I need a B average, I'm on a B curve, and I determined the cause of my problems to be a lack of concentration and emotional/relationship issues.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:54 am

panda595 wrote:I have decided to stay and do my best. I need a B average, I'm on a B curve, and I determined the cause of my problems to be a lack of concentration and emotional/relationship issues.

Dude, we are really trying to help you here. It doesnt matter if you get exclusively A+ grades this semester: there is almost no way you're going to end up employed after that first semester, especially considering the school you attend. It is simply no longer worth your time and money; a crap entry level job paying 30k is far superior to staying.

nick417
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby nick417 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:21 pm

Instead of saying "no way" (which is attacking), a better way to phrase it would be "Very difficult."

The point everyone is trying to get a cross is regardless of how well you do the rest of your law school career, a 1.7 is an enormous red flag. Especially, if your school grades at a B or 3.0 curve. Considering the job market, a red flag could black ball you from many legal careers.

Also, you have failed to list what you are paying to attend law school. Seriously, consider your projected debt, and then look at the salary it would require to pay that off. Their are online tools that will help you calculate the repayment. Then, look for jobs that pay that much. Next, look at your school's job placement the last couple of years to determine your likelihood of obtaining that job. That is how you answer whether you should continue law school.

nick417
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby nick417 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:26 pm

AReasonableMan wrote:there are inconsistencies that make it suspicious, but in this instance the school is looking to dismiss you because you are bad for them. you hurt their presumably already crappy bar passage, and their job placement. by kicking you and others with similar grades out the TTT school is able to argue to the ABA that they made substantive improvements without making any substantive changes. it's just business. i do think you should look into another field. also, if you really struggled psychologically and the school's only input was to threaten to kick you out, you really should think long and hard on if you want to continue to be in that school.


Excellent point: if you explained your "extreme" personal difficulties to the school and their response is "who cares," then clearly they only care about their ranking and not their students. This is typical of lower ranked schools. Another reason to drop out. This school doesn't care about your interests; it cares about using you to better itself. Once you have no value to the school, it kicks you out regardless.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby AReasonableMan » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:04 pm

nick417 wrote:
AReasonableMan wrote:there are inconsistencies that make it suspicious, but in this instance the school is looking to dismiss you because you are bad for them. you hurt their presumably already crappy bar passage, and their job placement. by kicking you and others with similar grades out the TTT school is able to argue to the ABA that they made substantive improvements without making any substantive changes. it's just business. i do think you should look into another field. also, if you really struggled psychologically and the school's only input was to threaten to kick you out, you really should think long and hard on if you want to continue to be in that school.


Excellent point: if you explained your "extreme" personal difficulties to the school and their response is "who cares," then clearly they only care about their ranking and not their students. This is typical of lower ranked schools. Another reason to drop out. This school doesn't care about your interests; it cares about using you to better itself. Once you have no value to the school, it kicks you out regardless.

ya, if someone has these issues, and does weird stuff on school property like ODing then it's more understandable, because the school could get sued. If it's just that your issues make you statistically less likely to pass the bar then it's more jerkish.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Under Stress of Academic Dismissal - What are my chances?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:06 pm

nick417 wrote:Instead of saying "no way" (which is attacking), a better way to phrase it would be "Very difficult."

I said "almost no way." "Very difficult" is a better descriptor for students at OP's school that are outside the top quarter. But I was not attacking. I don't think OP understands how bleak the situation here is. Finding a job/picking another career path is what the extreme majority of attorneys would advise one to do in this situation. Again, 47% of all graduates are never hired as attorneys. It will be almost impossible for OP to dig out of that hole.




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