Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:20 am

JEB wrote:Sent you a PM



Thanks.

theman
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby theman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:23 am

JEB wrote:I was selected as a 2L, which multiple JAGs have told me is uncommon. I'm at a T14 somewhere in the top 20%; Eagle Scout with great LORs.

Did you enlist into the Reserves as a 2L then, or was it a delayed entry type program contingent on graduation and bar passage?

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:25 am

JEB wrote:I was selected as a 2L, which multiple JAGs have told me is uncommon. I'm at a T14 somewhere in the top 20%; Eagle Scout with great LORs.


My interviewers also told me the same in regard to 2L's being selected, that it was about half the selection rate of 3L's, so certainly significantly rare. The logic behind that makes sense. 2L's have another shot to reapply the following year, for 3L's it is there last shot before graduating.

User avatar
JEB
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:58 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby JEB » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:27 am

Good question, theman. I am in the commissioning process currently. Once all the medical and security clearance stuff is done, I'll commission as an inactive reservist. After I take the bar exam, I report to ODS. Assuming I pass the bar exam, I get orders once I have my results to attend NJS, likely in January 2017.

If a commissioned JAG officer fails the bar exam twice, he/she is asked to resign the commission and separate.

theman2
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:30 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby theman2 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:32 am

JEB wrote:Good question, theman. I am in the commissioning process currently. Once all the medical and security clearance stuff is done, I'll commission as an inactive reservist. After I take the bar exam, I report to ODS. Assuming I pass the bar exam, I get orders once I have my results to attend NJS, likely in January 2017.

If a commissioned JAG officer fails the bar exam twice, he/she is asked to resign the commission and separate.

what happens if you don't pass the bar exam? Or don't graduate the JD?

I ask since although MOST do, some don't.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:19 am

Saul, you said you don't expect to be selected this time. Do you feel like the interview didn't go well? Or just the way the game is?

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:18 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:Saul, you said you don't expect to be selected this time. Do you feel like the interview didn't go well? Or just the way the game is?


Well, I have a few reasons. I felt like the interview went pretty well, or as well as can be expected. It seems like it is very difficult to judge how well you answered. With that being said I did feel more confident before the interview versus after. My interviewers conveyed to me (exactly the same thing we read here) that Navy Jag selection is extremely selective. Usually hovering around 10%, and that also selection for 2L's is about half the rate of 3L's (I am a 2L). Hearing it from them in person really made the notion real to me.

With the selection rate being what it is I don't feel as though my stats are competitive enough to win over some of the other potential applicants. I am sure it will vary heavily from board to board of course, but I am a major worrier. I am from a decent school (T25) and my grades aren't the worst they could be (top 50%). But top 50% is about average rather than "spectacular," which I am afraid is what many other applicants are. I'm hearing a lot of acceptance stories from T14's with top 10% grades and that terrifies me. Also, I have a really mediocre LSAT score, which you would think shouldn't matter, but it actually does unfortunately.

I am hoping that my Marine Corps service helps me. The Navy and Marine Corps are obviously heavily interconnected. So much so that they are really in many ways the same service. I am not sure that my previous relationship with the Navy will make the difference or not. I saw that you're prior service as well, I hope it helps you too.

Aside from those reasons, in a way I actually like to promote the feeling in my head so if I am not accepted I won't be so let down, and if I am I will be that more elated. It seems so unpredictable, just the way the game is I suppose.

These are all just the ramblings of a nervous mad man, so take them with a grain of salt. We shall soon see if my concerns were really justified or not!

Have you done your interview yet?

User avatar
JEB
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:58 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby JEB » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:31 am

theman2 wrote:
JEB wrote:Good question, theman. I am in the commissioning process currently. Once all the medical and security clearance stuff is done, I'll commission as an inactive reservist. After I take the bar exam, I report to ODS. Assuming I pass the bar exam, I get orders once I have my results to attend NJS, likely in January 2017.

If a commissioned JAG officer fails the bar exam twice, he/she is asked to resign the commission and separate.

what happens if you don't pass the bar exam? Or don't graduate the JD?

I ask since although MOST do, some don't.


JEB wrote:If a commissioned JAG officer fails the bar exam twice, he/she is asked to resign the commission and separate.


That would also apply to not finishing the degree.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:10 am

No interview yet, I'm a 1L. Good luck, keep this thread updated

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:02 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:No interview yet, I'm a 1L. Good luck, keep this thread updated



Oh, you've been commenting here since 2013, I thought you were at least a 2L.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:17 pm

S. Goodman wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:No interview yet, I'm a 1L. Good luck, keep this thread updated



Oh, you've been commenting here since 2013, I thought you were at least a 2L.


Nope, just started posting while studying for the LSAT and stuck around.

I know you can't go into the questions themselves, but were they more or less what one would expect, if that makes sense? Also, did you do anything JAG related 1L summer?

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:18 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
I know you can't go into the questions themselves, but were they more or less what one would expect, if that makes sense? Also, did you do anything JAG related 1L summer?



All of the questions were leadership related, and one related to dealing with military life in general. They are partly what you'd expect military lawyers to ask about. They are more or less a mixture of military and law questions, focusing centrally on leadership.

JAG Hopeful
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:18 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby JAG Hopeful » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:59 pm

I posted this on the main thread too, but I love the idea of a Navy-specific thread. I’m a 2L seeking only Navy at this point, because I’d be my family’s 4th generation Naval Officer if I was selected. I’ve been reading this thread a long time but just joined yesterday to post.

Here's my stats for the first (Dec '14) Board:
• Undergrad – small liberal arts college – GPA: 3.96/4.00 and class rank: 8/389
• Middle-ranked law school (that said, we tied top schools for JAG appointments the year I entered) – top 10% class rank.
• LSAT - 161, 83rd percentile
• 1L summer intern with the Navy JAG
• Letters of Rec - 2 Navy JAG LTs, 1 law school prof, 1 pastor, 1 attorney/boss

For the second board, I changed my personal statement and got my O-6 CO to give me a letter of rec. I’m hoping I didn’t screw up my structured interview, because I was sure I’d get in. Just another reminder that this is a long and difficult road. I have my fingers crossed for the next board.

Here’s my questions: First, any advice for next time? Next, for those selected, how much physical fitness evidence did you have on your application? I’m fit, but I never played varsity sports in high school and did rec leagues in college. When they look at my photo, they’ll see I’m 6’2’’ and 175 lbs – good physique. Is this going to be a problem?
Last edited by JAG Hopeful on Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:47 am

JAG Hopeful wrote:I’m hoping I didn’t screw up my structured interview, because I was sure I’d get in.


So why exactly were you sure you'd get in?

JAG Hopeful wrote:First, any advice for next time?


I don't think there is really anything you can change in your application other than your personal statement, and LOR's.

JAG Hopeful wrote:Middle-ranked law school


What tier is it? What is the rankings range? And what is your GPA and class rank?

JAG Hopeful wrote:I have my fingers crossed for the next board.


Depending on your school rank and your grades, you seem pretty competitive. I think you just barely lost out the first board, but who knows. They take less 2L's than 3L's so you have that working against you. Although, apparently applying multiple times helps, so this time you have that working for you.

I feel like there is going to be A LOT more 3L's applying this board than last: there is a lot of 3L's out there who still haven't found a job and are probably trying to grasp at everything. So that may make it harder on 2L's this board. I don't know if this is true, but it seems logical.

Good luck, and be sure to report back periodically.

JAG Hopeful
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:18 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby JAG Hopeful » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:20 am

First off, it was my first board, so I was just feeling cocky overall, I guess. It's easy to talk yourself out of the long-shot odds when you've never been put against them. I've been chasing this job since my senior year of undergrad, so I've talked myself into believing that the odds wouldn't apply to me. That said, I felt I had several very good things going for me. Of the numbers they've made public in the last few years, it's usually as many as 35% of selected applicants that they say have specifically completed an internship. Also, whereas the whole person concept they discuss lists things like "leadership, public service," and other, non-concrete, ethereal categories, they also list specifically that having completed a Navy internship is something they're looking for. This, combined with my resume and academic success, I felt I was a pretty good bet.

I'll PM you about the school; I don't want to get too specific here. Rank-wise, it's right in the middle of the pack. Overall, though, I really have never thought school rank mattered that much, relatively speaking. I chose my school because it's near a military base and they send most of their JAGs for LLMs and advanced focuses to us. We have profs who are JAG reserves and past JAGS. We have several commissioned across the various branches every year, and the very first person I met on the first day was a 2L just back from his Navy internship (and he was selected his very first board - another reason I talked myself around the long odds). I think more important than rank is connection to the military. Again, that's relative; I'm betting the JAGC doesn't accept many applicants from 189th ranked Acme School of Law.

As for the next board, I think you are right. Looking over the public release information of the last several years, the spring board almost always has several hundred more applicants. I've always thought that the number increase is for what you've said - 3Ls looking for a job. I talked to a JAG the other day, and they mentioned that with the JAGC's new emphasis on VLC, they need bodies, and soon. The JAG also mentioned again that the internship is important; he said he believed a majority of those selected were past interns, and the other intern at my base was selected this time (his first board too). So, I'm betting they'll probably take a lot of 3Ls again, particularly ones with internship experience. But the way I look at it, I'm a 2L and I'm reapplying. And I did an internship. I don't just want any job; I'm to the point where I need this one and will commit to it years in advance if given the chance; I'm hoping that persistence and my personal statement make that clear to the Board.

Thanks for the help, and for starting this thread! The more discussion, them more we learn, I think! =)

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:33 pm

JAG Hopeful wrote:
Overall, though, I really have never thought school rank mattered that much, relatively speaking.


I think it matters as much as the board members want it to matter. Interest in public service is important I'd say. However, if the board can take all their people from T14's then I'm willing to bet they will. I think perhaps in their eyes that just makes their organization that much more prestigious.

The importance they're able to place on that is going to depend on the composition of the applicant pool. If there are a ton of people from highly ranked schools it is suddenly going to almost completely shut out people from lower ranked schools.

With that being said I think (knowing your schools rank) that you have a tremendously good shot at getting it eventually. I think you totally made the right decision going with the full ride. But again I'm not an expert, so take my opinion for what it is worth.

If either of us don't get it this board, I think the odds will go up exponentially for both next Fall. Given that we'll both be 3L's, and that the application amount will be lower than the spring.

JAG Hopeful wrote:I think more important than rank is connection to the military.


I sincerely hope that this is true. Unlike you, I do not have a military internship under my belt. However, I was a active duty Marine before law school. So who knows the effect that will have. Given the strong relationship between the Navy and Marines I am hoping that the board cares. lol

JAG Hopeful wrote:I talked to a JAG the other day, and they mentioned that with the JAGC's new emphasis on VLC, they need bodies, and soon.


Can you expand on this any? Also, what is VLC? All the information you can provide would be great.

JAG Hopeful
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:18 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby JAG Hopeful » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:07 am

Here's hoping we both get in! This summer was beyond amazing, and I encourage anyone who has the chance to do an internship.

I know prior military experience is a good thing, even if it's not Navy experience; Marines are the closest, so that's certainly a good thing going for you =)

Sure thing! VLC is Victims' Legal Counsel, a newer program stepped up by Congress in the last couple years to combat the high amount of sexual assault/harassment in the military, particularly against women. What it means for the JAGC is that they transferred a lot of folks from RLSOs, DSOs, and the DC codes into Victim Advocate roles, being the lawyer/councilor for reporting victims. That left many spots unfilled in the positions these new VAs left. Because of that, the number of JAGs needed to fill all of the JAGC's spots has increased, so this is why they're selecting more folks in recent boards. Specifically, they accepted roughly 35% of 3L applicants to this last board, because 3Ls are graduating and will be able to jump in right away. Apparently, the JAGC is short on junior officers right now. Good news for us, hopefully, particularly if the trend continues into next year! =)

theinvisiblehand
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby theinvisiblehand » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:00 pm

Just realized this forum this was a thing. I'll check in as well. I am a 3L and I was selected for the student program this fall.

Stats: Navy internship, public interest internship with trial experience, T14 law school, secondary journal.

Feel free to ask in this forum or PM me if you have any questions I can answer!

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:49 pm

theinvisiblehand wrote:Just realized this forum this was a thing. I'll check in as well. I am a 3L and I was selected for the student program this fall.

Stats: Navy internship, public interest internship with trial experience, T14 law school, secondary journal.

Feel free to ask in this forum or PM me if you have any questions I can answer!


Saw you are at Chicago. Did you get rejected as a 2L? If a Chi student with an internship gets rejected as a 2L, who does make it?

congrats btw

theinvisiblehand
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby theinvisiblehand » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:15 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
theinvisiblehand wrote:Just realized this forum this was a thing. I'll check in as well. I am a 3L and I was selected for the student program this fall.

Stats: Navy internship, public interest internship with trial experience, T14 law school, secondary journal.

Feel free to ask in this forum or PM me if you have any questions I can answer!


Saw you are at Chicago. Did you get rejected as a 2L? If a Chi student with an internship gets rejected as a 2L, who does make it?

congrats btw


Thanks. And no, I did not apply to the SP as a 2L.

User avatar
Stubbazubba
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:17 am

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Stubbazubba » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:45 pm

theinvisiblehand wrote:Just realized this forum this was a thing. I'll check in as well. I am a 3L and I was selected for the student program this fall.

Stats: Navy internship, public interest internship with trial experience, T14 law school, secondary journal.

Feel free to ask in this forum or PM me if you have any questions I can answer!


Would you mind spilling your LSAT and/or GPA? How did you feel your interview went? Did you do the Navy internship your first or second summer? Could you talk about the journal? Do you think that made much of a difference? What do you feel like you did right or wrong?

Thank you and congratulations!

User avatar
S. Goodman
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby S. Goodman » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:30 am

Deadline has passed, the waiting game commences.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:10 pm

S. Goodman wrote:Deadline has passed, the waiting game commences.


Good luck, keep us posted.

Also, random question: when filling out the online application, I think it asks for jobs within the last ten years? Did everyone actually list ALL jobs, even stupid high school part time stuff, or only post-college professional gigs?

Rambo152
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:34 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Rambo152 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:10 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
S. Goodman wrote:Deadline has passed, the waiting game commences.


Good luck, keep us posted.

Also, random question: when filling out the online application, I think it asks for jobs within the last ten years? Did everyone actually list ALL jobs, even stupid high school part time stuff, or only post-college professional gigs?


Yup. Every single one. You have to do the same when you apply for the bar. It's worse than getting a security clearance.

ShockTop
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby ShockTop » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:59 pm

Rambo152 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
S. Goodman wrote:Deadline has passed, the waiting game commences.


Good luck, keep us posted.

Also, random question: when filling out the online application, I think it asks for jobs within the last ten years? Did everyone actually list ALL jobs, even stupid high school part time stuff, or only post-college professional gigs?


Yup. Every single one. You have to do the same when you apply for the bar. It's worse than getting a security clearance.


I'm a DAP applicant but monitoring this thread, along with the other enormous Military Law one. I've been through the bar application process already and yes, it's surprisingly thorough. My state asked for past 10 years but I think the SF86 only asks for 7, if I am not mistaken. Still, it's just as tedious.

Good luck to everyone waiting.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests