A case for dropping out?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4134
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:09 pm

Sorry to hear that. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

B90
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby B90 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:12 pm

I sent you a pm.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby AReasonableMan » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:42 pm

Progress01 wrote:Grades came out today. But before I get to that. A couple replies to things:

1. To the prick who said I'm coddled--my "home"--as in my century old house that failed it's mold inspection--cost less than a new car. For all the coddling and spoiling I've apparently had? I worked 2 jobs all through undergrad, drove a 17 year old car I bought myself, and I lived with my parents because at the time we couldn't afford a dorm. I paid my own books, and summer school if I wanted to get ahead. I went to a hometown public institution and had scholarships. So how's that for coddling and being spoiled?

2. I've been in counseling at law school since the semester started. And I'm still..This. I'm like this WITH counseling right now.

3. And most importantly. Grades are posting. I have everything but torts. And despite the fact I studied as much as my peers, there apparently is something magical that happens when your heart isn't in what you're doing and you hate every day. I'm seeing D+, C- and the highest grade I have so far is a C+. My GPA is tanked. I'm waiting for my torts grade. If I did poorly on it, I'm literally going to be dismissed. I'm beyond words upset right now.

I left from Christmas break today. Before I left this morning, a kid I grew up with announced to me that he has terminal brain cancer, and this will be the last time I see him. Now I'm sitting between my connector flights, after breaking the news to my parents about my grades. I can't stand the look on my dad's face when I told him. I'm crushed. I felt like a complete failure. He looked at me like I didn't study. And how do you look at your dad, and tell him you studied and it apparently wasn't good enough? Where I'm headed, our low is supposed to be -3 the first night of school, and my flight here is delayed so I will arrive just in time ot drive through a snowstorm at 4 am.

I feel like I'm in a fog. I need to decide what to do, and do it fast. I hate law school. I know I don't want to stay in. But I'm a little afraid if I quit now, these bad grades will haunt every step I have of ever getting into grad school? Won't graduate schools see these grades? If I ever applied for a counseling program or graduate work in psychology like I should have, instead of deciding to come to law school?

It's been a horrible bad no good very bad day and I need input. I feel like I know what to do yet cant even say it.

To respond to each of your points:

1.) Agreed. Fuck that guy.

2.) How much did the mental health impact your focus/studying during the semester? Was it impacting your ability to get out of bed, or was it more just a general unhappiness? This doesn't really impact anything at this point, but I've always been pretty curious about how taxing mental trauma is on performance.

3.) With your grades, you're pretty fucked as far as being a lawyer goes. If you didn't even care that much about it, and you were pressured into it by your family you have to drop out. In 10 years, you won't care what people from your old church thought about you. You're gonna care about your house payments, and hopefully your future career. There's no reason in pursuing a career you don't even want with lottery ticket odds. Your odds out of a t-4 were horrendous to begin with, and now are bordering on 0%.

The silver lining to this is picture the world where you're at median despite your psychological problems. You wind up as screwed as you are now legal job wise, but you have 5 times the debt. That's the other world that probably would've happened.

It doesn't mean you're not smart. Law school tests and legal thinking are a very specific type of thinking. I'm saying this as someone who is naturally pretty good at law school tests. I'm sharp witted, but spend most of my time thinking about how characters from It's Always Sunny would react to different situations. Nobody is confusing me with EInstein, and nobody is confusing you with Bozo.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22848
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:13 pm

The other thing about law school grades is that Tier 4 schools are fairly notorious for having brutal curves and flunking out a relatively high number of students. So keep in mind that these grades represent one person's opinion of your performance on a 3- or 4-hour exam, compared to how everyone else did on that day. If you got 90 out of 100 points and everyone else got 91+ points, you'd get the lowest grade despite having a perfectly good command of the material. So while I know it's dispiriting to see those grades after working hard, don't let them define you.

(And while other grad programs will probably want to see those grades, if you want to go into a psychology grad program, your undergrad performance in that subject will be much more important, as will professor recommendations and such. Contra to haus, I think psych is actually one grad degree that can help you get a job, at least if you go into clinical psych.)

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:43 am

Girl, with those grades you need to drop out ASAP. And fuck psychology. You need to fucking work. You need your own job, your own apartment, move away from your parents, and meet new people. You don't need school for a good 3 years. You need to work.

And who cares about your dad. F*ck him. I wouldn't have even told them the grades. I never told my parents my grades, lsat, class rank. NOTHING.

xiao_long
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:38 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby xiao_long » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:28 am

Dear OP:

I decided to chime in because your situation reminded me of the experience I had last year. Like what some of the others have said, you should definitely discontinue law school since from a financial point of view there is simply no point in continuing.

As for your father, I think it is unfortunate that he is not being as understanding as a father should be, but you still need to move on with your life despite his lack of sympathy towards your situation.

There are no hard and fast solutions on how to recalibrate your life, but getting a job - however "lowly" or "mundane" it might be - and start earning an income, would be a start. It is easy to think that getting another degree is the silver bullet to solving our economic woes, but as you have just experienced with law school, reality is a lot more complicated than that.

I know it probably feels like as though the world is crumbling down right beneath you right now - believe me I've been there - but I also need to point out that it does get better with time. Stay strong and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel, as I've did.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Clearly » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:53 am

I agree with all of the above posters, but I'm posting more to thank tls. We see a lot of dumb shit around here, but when something serious comes up, I'm always impressed with the class that comes through with people really trying to help.

OP, this is a trying time for you, but at least the decision was made for you recently, trust that it's objectively foolish to stay now, and plan your exit strategy. The day will come where you're loving what you do and you'll be so grateful that you didn't stick with law school. They'll be some anxiety in the middle for sure, just know greener pastures are ahead.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby AReasonableMan » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:50 am

If you're looking for how to tell people you dropped out say I didn't like law school, and felt my calling was something else. What your facing with your dad and community are the remnants of the old "just do it" philosophy. In their days school was much cheaper, and people are parroting the philosophy without addressing the facts.

I also guarantee that none of these people are thinking about your law school decision. Odds are they're bringing it up to make conversation. Show your dad the actual facts, and also how your school's grading works. This would be a very silly thing to end your life over. You're an adult and you are free to live your life making your own choices. Your parents may mean well but may not always be right.

User avatar
Pumpkin-Duke of Pie
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Pumpkin-Duke of Pie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:06 pm

AReasonableMan wrote:If you're looking for how to tell people you dropped out say I didn't like law school, and felt my calling was something else. What your facing with your dad and community are the remnants of the old "just do it" philosophy. In their days school was much cheaper, and people are parroting the philosophy without addressing the facts.

I also guarantee that none of these people are thinking about your law school decision. Odds are they're bringing it up to make conversation. Show your dad the actual facts, and also how your school's grading works. This would be a very silly thing to end your life over. You're an adult and you are free to live your life making your own choices. Your parents may mean well but may not always be right.


Cosign. Your parents are ordinary people just like you, full of their own virtues and flaws. Parents are often incorrect in many of their assumptions, and many know far less than they espouse. Live your life for you and I guarantee you'll be much happier.

Not enjoying law school and dropping out doesn't make you a failure. You tried something, found you didn't like it, and it didn't work out. That's life, and everyone goes through it.

User avatar
Chevron Deference
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:51 am

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Chevron Deference » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:45 pm

OP

Is your T4 school possibly a strong regional school? Do you want to pursue big law or law review?
If not 1st semester grades are not the end of the world, you can improve second semester.

User avatar
Pumpkin-Duke of Pie
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Pumpkin-Duke of Pie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:47 pm

Chevron Deference wrote:OP

Is your T4 school possibly a strong regional school? Do you want to pursue big law or law review?
If not 1st semester grades are not the end of the world, you can improve second semester.


Stop this.

User avatar
Chevron Deference
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:51 am

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Chevron Deference » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:54 pm

Pumpkin-Duke of Pie wrote:
Chevron Deference wrote:OP

Is your T4 school possibly a strong regional school? Do you want to pursue big law or law review?
If not 1st semester grades are not the end of the world, you can improve second semester.


Stop this.


Stopped

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby AReasonableMan » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:50 pm

Chevron Deference wrote:
Pumpkin-Duke of Pie wrote:
Chevron Deference wrote:OP

Is your T4 school possibly a strong regional school? Do you want to pursue big law or law review?
If not 1st semester grades are not the end of the world, you can improve second semester.


Stop this.


Stopped

If you or anyone else drastically improved b/w 1st and 2nd semester of 1L, it would be useful albeit not useful to OP's situation to detail what you did differently. Otherwise the "you can improve" speech is meaningless.

Progress01
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Progress01 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:01 pm

It's been a really rough 36 hours, but ultimately I've come to the decision not to continue with the spring semester.

My torts grade finally came in yesterday, and its's an A. Weird considering the rest of my grades.

I met with a counselor, career services (non law school, university wide), and one of the Deans of the law school last night. It's terrifying when you say you want to withdraw the look people give you. And for the first time, how fast you're allowed to meet with the dean. And suddenly how nice secretaries are.

The dean strongly encouraged me to take a leave if absence instead of outright withdrawing. I'd still get my tuiton back, but it wouldn't seal the door closed. So I wrote a brief petition for that and directed it to the appropriate Dean. Now I get an email saying before he takes action it he wants to meet with me. Apparently it's a lot harder to drop out of law school than I ever thought.

I've been sleeping on and off all day. I feel really out of sorts. I panic when I wake up, I wonder if I'm making the right choice. And I just hope that i am. I'm not a religious person nor am I person who regularly trusts myself.

I'm not sure where I go from here. Obviously, back to where im from, to regroup. But it's not even like I have a bed at my parents house anymore. It's a conflicting day.
part of me feels like a failure and part of me feels almost relieved that I don't have to continue something I absolutely hate.

My parents were supportive of the decision (they never wanted me to be a lawyer, as its so removed from my personality and interests and I never mentioned the interest growing up or in college until boom a couple months before the LSAT.), and I told my grandmother while bawling.

I'm not sure what I'm going to tell everyone else.
Last edited by Progress01 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
utahraptor
Posts: 3440
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:05 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby utahraptor » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:02 pm

I'm sure it was a tough decision, but you made the right one.

Good luck moving forward.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby AReasonableMan » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:12 pm

Progress01 wrote:It's been a really rough 36 hours, but ultimately I've come to the decision not to continue with the spring semester.

My torts grade finally came in yesterday, and its's an A. Weird considering the rest of my grades.

I met with a counselor, career services (non law school, university wide), and one of the Deans of the law school last night. It's terrifying when you say you want to withdraw the look people give you. And for the first time, how fast you're allowed to meet with the dean. And suddenly how nice secretaries are.

The dean strongly encouraged me to take a leave if absence instead of outright withdrawing. I'd still get my tuiton back, but it wouldn't seal the door closed. So I wrote a brief petition for that and directed it to the appropriate Dean. Now I get an email saying before he takes action it he wants to meet with me. Apparently it's a lot harder to drop out of law school than I ever thought.

I've been sleeping on and off all day. I feel really out of sorts. I panic when I wake up, I wonder if I'm making the right choice. And I just hope that i am. I'm not a religious person nor am I person who regularly trusts myself.

I'm not sure where I go from here. Obviously, back to where im from, to regroup. But it's not even like I have a bed at my parents house anymore. It's a conflicting day.
part of me feels like a failure and part of me feels almost relieved that I don't have to continue something I absolutely hate.

My parents were supportive of the decision (they never wanted me to be a lawyer, as its so removed from my personality and interests and I never mentioned the interest growing up or in college until boom a couple months before the LSAT.), and I told my grandmother while bawling.

I'm not sure what I'm going to tell everyone else.

It is weird your torts grade was an A. Congrats. It's likely that the outside issues you had to deal with played a role in the other grades, but you made the right decision. You can walk away knowing you're smart but unlucky.

User avatar
rondemarino
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:29 am

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby rondemarino » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:15 pm

utahraptor wrote:I'm not sure what I'm going to tell everyone else.


You tell them you dropped out. I'm sure it seems like a big deal now, but 4-5 years from you, when you're on fully immersed in the career you're truly passionate about, you'll wonder what the big deal was.

I dropped out of graduate school. It was a bad fit and I was smart enough to realize it. Not ashamed of it. Its your life. At some point that has to matter more than what you think others think of you.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby AReasonableMan » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:36 pm

On the what you'll tell people front:

Literally 75% of your school should for sure drop out. TTTT's are a financial hellfire for the students, and bare in mind I'm someone who thinks the whole law school scam thing is overblown. There was never a period where a TTTT justified a 100k investment or where you didn't have to be top of the class to pay off 100k debt at a TTTT.

You are the CEO of your life. If a CEO made business decisions they knew were horrible because they didn't want to look bad, they would be personally liable. The person who admits they are in a bad position, and takes proactive steps to minimize the damage is always more respected in the long run.

mvp99
Posts: 1384
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby mvp99 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm

awesome decision.. Good luck with whatever you do. dont worry about what people think. dont let the dean talk you into staying.

User avatar
Pumpkin-Duke of Pie
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Pumpkin-Duke of Pie » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:38 am

AReasonableMan wrote:On the what you'll tell people front:

Literally 75% of your school should for sure drop out. TTTT's are a financial hellfire for the students, and bare in mind I'm someone who thinks the whole law school scam thing is overblown. There was never a period where a TTTT justified a 100k investment or where you didn't have to be top of the class to pay off 100k debt at a TTTT.

You are the CEO of your life. If a CEO made business decisions they knew were horrible because they didn't want to look bad, they would be personally liable. The person who admits they are in a bad position, and takes proactive steps to minimize the damage is always more respected in the long run.


This and:

mvp99 wrote:awesome decision.. Good luck with whatever you do. dont worry about what people think. dont let the dean talk you into staying.


This. Cosigned. Your A in Torts definitely proves that you're smart, so don't doubt yourself or think you're some how incompetent when it comes to the law or something. Still, you're making the smart decision here. If you fundamentally don't like law, get out while you've made a minimal investment.

Congrats on making those hard choices, I know they weren't easy.

lawman4
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:21 am

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby lawman4 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:00 am

You made one of the best decisions of your life!

And this is coming from someone who started off at a TTTT; however, I was the complete opposite of you. I literally hated undergrad so much, that I ended up on academic probation and ultimately finished with a 2.5 GPA. I was accepted into a horrible law school (COL was paid for); however, I loved it. I loved it so much.. that I made high enough grades to transfer to a TT. And even this semester at the new school, I owned my peers. I was able to find my passion; and you eventually will to.

Goodluck; and all those students at the TTTT without connections or some type of law review / journal are so screwed in 2 years, you'll get the last laugh. One of the first questions employers ask is.. journal?

Smart move. Goodluck on where life takes you.

User avatar
Nebby
Posts: 21991
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Nebby » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:50 am

Clearly wrote: I'm posting more to thank tls. We see a lot of dumb shit around here, but when something serious comes up, I'm always impressed with the class that comes through with people really trying to help.

Seconded.

User avatar
cron1834
Posts: 1921
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:36 am

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby cron1834 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:42 am

OP: Freakonomics had a great podcast on the upside of quitting. You should listen to it. Dropping out of a crappy school that makes you MISERABLE should be liberating. You weren't going to be happy that way. You may not be happy the other way, but at least it's not *guaranteed* misery like this.

Time will give you some distance, and you won't feel as embarrassed around family/friends. Been there myself in other circumstances. You probably have 60 years of living left to do ... no need to do it all at once.

Progress01
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Progress01 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:09 am

OP here. He didn't even try to talk me out of it, just listened objectively before signing and granting my petition. He did tell me however that several of my classmates were dismissed academically. So I am grateful to not be one of those and of not had a choice.
Had several moments last week where I had to talk myself out of going to class. That moment of, "Wait, I've only missed the first 4 days. If I went now, I wouldn't be out of absences yet for x class. I could get reinstated. I could use so-and-so's book until mine came. I would be briefed and ready and caught up. I could do it." Thankfully, I resisted.
My seemingly law school "friends" have already disappeared into the mists of time. My "friend" who I sat with, all day every day, and spent so many hours with, told me quote, "Only one person even asked about you. They all probably just think you flunked out. I told the guy who asked that you're probably dropping out." So it's not like I'm losing a bunch of friends.

My parents have been nothing but supportive and I'm grateful for that. People's reactions have been mixed. Grandmother #1 insisted I don't tell my grandfather. Apparently I'd look like a failure? Told grandfather anyways. He gritted his teeth and shook his head. Grandmother #2 was very supportive and didn't sound upset at all. Just finished telling a friend, a friend who previously thought I was very successful. I don't think he took it well either.

I'm not excited to go back to my hometown, job hunt, sleep in a fold out sofa in my dad's office for months, and run into people I know in the grocery and have to explain WHY I'm not away at school. But at the end of the day? This is my life. I'm only going to get one.
I've spent my whole life trying to be a success story and I just wrote my own failure.
I looked at a picture of myself from when I was a little kid: I've got a turtle in each hand, grinning. That's me. Those are the things I like. There's a certain innate element of who you are, what you're passionate about, the things you've always been, deep down that I think we sometimes lose track of as adults. Law school was never my plan freshman or sophomore or even half of junior year of college, it never even crossed my mind. So I will find something else. For the first time in a long time, no more fitting a mold. Time to go back to the person I was meant to become.
It's been a crazy week filled with packing and scouring job postings and internships. And I really hope that this isn't the end of something good, that instead this is just the beginning of something much greater.

User avatar
ManoftheHour
Posts: 3402
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:22 am

Things are rock bottom. They will only get better. I know a guy that dropped out halfway through last semester and from his Facebook, he looks happy as fuck.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests