A case for dropping out?

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Progress01
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A case for dropping out?

Postby Progress01 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:13 pm

1L here. Just finished the 1st semester last week, and like everyone else, waiting for grades to be released in a couple weeks (just a day prior to spring semester starting back). I wrote a rather scary thread back in August, if anyone remembers it. And not much has changed. I had hoped something might click, and I would just "get into it". I haven't. It's strange but it's almost like from the moment I arrived at law school I told myself I would hate it?

My midterm grades were very, very good. My first legal writing memo however was awful. I don't know how the second went. I loathe legal writing like nothing I've ever comprehended. I hated all my classes, except maybe torts. I don't like my classmates--it's not that they're bad people, the majority just have a very different personality type than I do. Took a Myers-Briggs a couple months ago for the first time ever, and SURPRISE, my personality type is a real rarity among both lawyers and law students! None of these people are people I really want to be friends with outside of school. And that sounds terrible. To give you an idea: I've recently been called "survivalist girl", for my interest in agriculture, biology, and the outdoors (all three things I love). In the meantime, I don't like what school is doing to my personality--it's like somehow, it's grooming the empathy out of me, and turning me into a very apathetic person, who doesn't care about other people and only cares about logic. This was never me. I don't laugh like I use to, either. I feel very agitated and on edge all the time, even on Christmas break now. My family keeps asking what's wrong with me.

To top it all off, it's a tier 4 school. No one outside of law school even seems to know what that could mean. I'm on Christmas break right now. And I don't ever want to go back. My parents dragged me to church on Christmas eve, and tons of people I know were there, and in our small town, EVERYONE I know knows I was going to law school. They all want to ask how it is. And THEN I'm FORCED TO 1. LIE or 2. BE HONEST AND TELL THEM I HATE IT. AND THE LATTER IS ALMOST WORSE THAN THE FORMER, because then they ask why, and then offer unsolicited advice on how I just need to "stick it out". If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone tell me "how many doors a JD will open", I'd be rich. And all of this comes from non-attorneys. I had someone stand there the other night, someone who can't even motivate themself to get a bachelors degree, and tell me how I need to stick with it.

Yesterday, my mom--who means well--told me how "well you could just be in-house counsel somewhere. that wouldn't be like being an attorney." I should note neither of my parents have graduate degrees, both have bachelors, but stopped there. And I started bawl, that's how great I feel about getting my JD and having to work in a job that prefers a candidate with a JD. It occurred to me whiel I was crying, that if I 1. Believed heaven was real, and I was going there, and 2. Knew my family would be okay, I would kILL MYSELF TODAY. without HESITATION. That's how much I don't want to go back, or face the future.
I have to go back for the spring--tuition is already paid, and I have a plane ticket back, and my parents own the place I live in (guilty factor number 485767685 that makes me wish I liked school and feel terrible), and my dog is there. But I really want to leave. Does anyone know how to tell everyone you want to drop out of law school? I feel like I'm going to be a complete failure if I do it, and that everyone I know, who I will have to tell, will view me as "a lazy failure who just couldn't cut it". Does anyone know anyone who dropped out after/during 1L and turned out to have a happy life?

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Kratos
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Kratos » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:33 pm

first off, there are a lot of people who hate law school so you're definitely not alone in that and should not feel bad that you don't like it. But yea fuck law school, drop out and get a tuition refund if you hate it that much. This is your life, don't live it to please others at the expense of your own happiness. You also gotta go see someone if the thought of suicide is even creeping into your head, definitely don't kill yourself.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:37 pm

It sounds like staying in law school another 2.5 years would be a huge waste of time and money. I would seriously consider dropping out. One of the hardest things in life is cutting losses after you've made a bad decision (getting a divorce, selling a house/stock at a loss, closing a failed business etc). It's best to do it at soon as possible.

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haus
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby haus » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:40 pm

First off, the Myers-Briggs test is junk.

Second, seek professional help. This is school, it is nothing related to this which is worth anywhere near the emotional energy you seem to have wrapped into it, which leads me to believe that whatever issues you have go well beyond law school.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:41 pm

I'm pretty sure all the people I know who dropped out of law school are much happier than they were in law school, and have happy lives.

Do you think your family/everyone else would take you dropping out better if you line up something else before doing so? It seems to me it's much easier to sell "I'm leaving law school to do this other cool thing" than "I'm leaving law school because I hate it." So you may want to spend spring ignoring school and lining up something else to do after.

That said, it is your life and dropping out is not failure, it's wisdom. And yeah, if you're thinking about suicide like that, you might want to get professional help handling the transition (I agree with haus that this may go to other issues). I'm pretty sure all law schools/universities have people in their student health departments who can address this because it happens a LOT.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:10 pm

I agree with above that you should see a psychologist/psychiatrist to get some guidance.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:13 pm

Um, you're having suicidal-ish thoughts. Drop out immediately and take care of yourself.

B90
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby B90 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:19 pm

I am a 2L. I understand what you are going through. Many of my friends/classmates went through the same thing. Feel free to PM me if you ever want to talk.

rwhyAn
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby rwhyAn » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:20 pm

OP, THIS IS NOTHING WORTH KILLING YOURSELF OVER!!! Please, if you are having suicidal thoughts, seek help. Also, there is nothing wrong with dropping out if you hate it. I started law school in Fall 2012, and I didn't even make it to Labor Day. Everybody I talked to tried to talk me into staying. Even a successful lawyer friend of the family called me up personally to tell me to reconsider. I hated where I was at so much that I couldn't bear to stay another day. What made it worse for me is that I gave up a $50k+ job to attend, so I thought my life was over and I made the biggest mistake ever. It wasn't fun having the "dropping out" talk with my family and friends, but do you know what? IT WASN'T A BIG DEAL AT ALL. My friends and family totally understood; maybe everyone didn't agree with my decision, but they understood. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily fun running into friends and having them ask me why I was back home, but I made it through it. Honestly, dropping out in my case was probably the best thing to have happened to me. I was able to get my old job back with a raise, I got promoted this year, and I'm actually back in law school part-time and having it completely paid for, instead of being $120k in debt and miserable. Trust me, it might not be as bad as you think. This is YOUR life, and you need to do what is best for YOU here. Life is too damn short to be unhappy. By dropping out now, there might be a lot of opportunities open to you that you might miss out on by staying in school. In the end, you need to do what is best for you. Good luck, OP!

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:22 pm

Op, read your post history. Sounds like there might be some underlying emotional issues here (you said you were sobbing in your closet during orientation.) I'm not making fun of you, but just pointing out that, as other people have suggested, you may have some issues unrelated to law school.
I strongly encourage you to seek some professional help, particularly if you start thinking more about hurting yourself.

TheNextAmendment
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby TheNextAmendment » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:07 pm

OP:

Wait for grades to come out. Many people hate law school; the only thing that gets them by is the satisfaction of knowing they're doing well.

If you did well and still hate it, then drop out.
If you did poorly, then drop out.

No matter what happens with your grades, get a therapist now. I truly think that every law student should have one and my guess is that 90% already do have one, so don't feel embarrassed.

sparty99
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby sparty99 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:53 pm

Progress01 wrote:1L here. Just finished the 1st semester last week, and like everyone else, waiting for grades to be released in a couple weeks (just a day prior to spring semester starting back). I wrote a rather scary thread back in August, if anyone remembers it. And not much has changed. I had hoped something might click, and I would just "get into it". I haven't. It's strange but it's almost like from the moment I arrived at law school I told myself I would hate it?

My midterm grades were very, very good. My first legal writing memo however was awful. I don't know how the second went. I loathe legal writing like nothing I've ever comprehended. I hated all my classes, except maybe torts. I don't like my classmates--it's not that they're bad people, the majority just have a very different personality type than I do. Took a Myers-Briggs a couple months ago for the first time ever, and SURPRISE, my personality type is a real rarity among both lawyers and law students! None of these people are people I really want to be friends with outside of school. And that sounds terrible. To give you an idea: I've recently been called "survivalist girl", for my interest in agriculture, biology, and the outdoors (all three things I love). In the meantime, I don't like what school is doing to my personality--it's like somehow, it's grooming the empathy out of me, and turning me into a very apathetic person, who doesn't care about other people and only cares about logic. This was never me. I don't laugh like I use to, either. I feel very agitated and on edge all the time, even on Christmas break now. My family keeps asking what's wrong with me.

To top it all off, it's a tier 4 school. No one outside of law school even seems to know what that could mean. I'm on Christmas break right now. And I don't ever want to go back. My parents dragged me to church on Christmas eve, and tons of people I know were there, and in our small town, EVERYONE I know knows I was going to law school. They all want to ask how it is. And THEN I'm FORCED TO 1. LIE or 2. BE HONEST AND TELL THEM I HATE IT. AND THE LATTER IS ALMOST WORSE THAN THE FORMER, because then they ask why, and then offer unsolicited advice on how I just need to "stick it out". If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone tell me "how many doors a JD will open", I'd be rich. And all of this comes from non-attorneys. I had someone stand there the other night, someone who can't even motivate themself to get a bachelors degree, and tell me how I need to stick with it.

Yesterday, my mom--who means well--told me how "well you could just be in-house counsel somewhere. that wouldn't be like being an attorney." I should note neither of my parents have graduate degrees, both have bachelors, but stopped there. And I started bawl, that's how great I feel about getting my JD and having to work in a job that prefers a candidate with a JD. It occurred to me whiel I was crying, that if I 1. Believed heaven was real, and I was going there, and 2. Knew my family would be okay, I would kILL MYSELF TODAY. without HESITATION. That's how much I don't want to go back, or face the future.
I have to go back for the spring--tuition is already paid, and I have a plane ticket back, and my parents own the place I live in (guilty factor number 485767685 that makes me wish I liked school and feel terrible), and my dog is there. But I really want to leave. Does anyone know how to tell everyone you want to drop out of law school? I feel like I'm going to be a complete failure if I do it, and that everyone I know, who I will have to tell, will view me as "a lazy failure who just couldn't cut it". Does anyone know anyone who dropped out after/during 1L and turned out to have a happy life?


If you don't like law school then drop the hell out. No one will care. We all know people who dropped out. Many people make life decisions and have success some where else. Law school is dumb, but no where did you actually say you want to be a lawyer so I would just leave. It won't get any better if you stay and there are better things you can do with your time and money.

03152016
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby 03152016 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:02 pm

letting down family/friends is clearly a big hurdle for you
it's obviously not going to be the most pleasant experience in the world
but you only have one life, and you deserve to be happy in it
if you don't have a desire to practice law, don't become a lawyer
it sounds like you have other interests worth pursuing; what careers appeal to you?

also, don't act rashly, the holidays can be a pretty depressing time
first things first, seek counseling
make your final decision when you're in a better state of mind

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jbagelboy
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:46 pm

you should definitely drop out for a number of reasons. First, you sound depressed. Second, you should also take some time away from your family. you sound very coddled, no offense - your parents bought you a place for you to live near law school? Jesus christ: I mean, you can't go back there.

Moreover, basically anyone at a T4 school should drop out. All your misery will most likely be for naught in this market.

Try to recoup your tuition and take some time away from it all. Develop a new life plan centered on what you actually like; biology, environment, ect.

at the end of the day, dropping out will earn you a lot more cred than being miserable for a shit degree

thisismyname
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby thisismyname » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:58 pm

Let's just think about this for a few minutes. What is the worst case scenario? You parents (and even everyone you care about disappointing) is disappointed. But that disappointment will only last--at most--until you find another path. I agree with Anon, but you don't need to wait until then if you really hate it that bad. And especially if it is losing you money. Unless you have a family lawyer who is banked on you being a lawyer, nobody in your family really cares about you being a lawyer. If anything, they care about you finding a lucrative career. Therefore, drop out and find something else. You will be happier, and your family will get over their disappointment when you find your alternative. Please, if you feel like you are going through this alone, try to find some help. There is always someone. PM me if you don't have anyone. Just take care of yourself!

ash0117
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby ash0117 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:46 pm

I think that your emotional and mental issues go beyond law school. It seems like you don't really have any coping mechanisms and you seem irrationally afraid of disappointing people. I'm not saying that to criticize, but rather support my point. That point is - if you drop out, which you probably should, please, please still get psychological help. Law school seems to have exacerbated issues that you already had before. Law school is miserable, no doubt, and lots of people absolutely hate it and drop out. Most people DO NOT become suicidal because of it. The level at which law school has effected you signifies a bigger problem. Your relationship with your family seems rather dysfunctional, but you need to talk to them and tell you how you feel. A therapist can help with that. Also, if you live your life afraid of disappointing others, you will never be happy. You're always going to disappoint someone - do what you need to do for you.

You need to talk to your family and a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. For your sake, do this. I guarantee they can help you.

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fats provolone
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby fats provolone » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:25 am

OP here. anyone think i should see a psychiatrist?

serdog
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby serdog » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:34 am

First off health comes first, if you are not 100% about dropping out see if your school will allow a "stop Out" this will allow you to step back and consider your wellbeing and no matter what talk to a metal health profession call a hot line please please please don't try and deal with this alone.

Second, (I note that I am Canadian here and US may be different) First Year just plain sucks I don't think I know anyone who didn't toy with dropping out (I my class I think 3-4) those of us who stayed and are now working love it, I was one of the one that came closest and now I love working in law. That being said the one that deciced that law school wasn't for them are MUCH happier that they dropped out. I had one friend who was angery all the time he was in Law school in dropped out and is very successful and a different path

Third, it look like the majority of your cost were cover by a scholarship so there is little lost by making and choice

Bottom line you have to do what is right and healthy for you at this point

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fltanglab
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby fltanglab » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:48 am

Yes you should see a psychiatrist.

You need to live your life for YOU. Not for your parents or the people from your hometown. There is more to the world than where you're from.

I had a classmate who was a great person and dropped out after first semester. He is much happier now and has a job that isn't law-related. You're not going to law school for the right reasons and at some point external motivation is not going to be enough for you to maintain a career in this field. The fact of life is that you can continue to try and please everyone and be miserable inside or you can put yourself first because nobody else is going to care more about you. The sooner you realize that nobody's wants for you are more important than your own desires the sooner you will live a fulfilling life.

FWIW I used to be really afraid of disappointing my parents, but if your parents are truly looking out for you (and it seems like they are) they'll understand your explanation. Just be honest and don't understate your feelings about the situation.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:59 am

Stay in school for the free pschotherapy while you job hunt and then drop out once you've lined something up. Fuck law though. Do you.

Progress01
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby Progress01 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:07 pm

Grades came out today. But before I get to that. A couple replies to things:

1. To the prick who said I'm coddled--my "home"--as in my century old house that failed it's mold inspection--cost less than a new car. For all the coddling and spoiling I've apparently had? I worked 2 jobs all through undergrad, drove a 17 year old car I bought myself, and I lived with my parents because at the time we couldn't afford a dorm. I paid my own books, and summer school if I wanted to get ahead. I went to a hometown public institution and had scholarships. So how's that for coddling and being spoiled?

2. I've been in counseling at law school since the semester started. And I'm still..This. I'm like this WITH counseling right now.

3. And most importantly. Grades are posting. I have everything but torts. And despite the fact I studied as much as my peers, there apparently is something magical that happens when your heart isn't in what you're doing and you hate every day. I'm seeing D+, C- and the highest grade I have so far is a C+. My GPA is tanked. I'm waiting for my torts grade. If I did poorly on it, I'm literally going to be dismissed. I'm beyond words upset right now.

I left from Christmas break today. Before I left this morning, a kid I grew up with announced to me that he has terminal brain cancer, and this will be the last time I see him. Now I'm sitting between my connector flights, after breaking the news to my parents about my grades. I can't stand the look on my dad's face when I told him. I'm crushed. I felt like a complete failure. He looked at me like I didn't study. And how do you look at your dad, and tell him you studied and it apparently wasn't good enough? Where I'm headed, our low is supposed to be -3 the first night of school, and my flight here is delayed so I will arrive just in time ot drive through a snowstorm at 4 am.

I feel like I'm in a fog. I need to decide what to do, and do it fast. I hate law school. I know I don't want to stay in. But I'm a little afraid if I quit now, these bad grades will haunt every step I have of ever getting into grad school? Won't graduate schools see these grades? If I ever applied for a counseling program or graduate work in psychology like I should have, instead of deciding to come to law school?

It's been a horrible bad no good very bad day and I need input. I feel like I know what to do yet cant even say it.

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utahraptor
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby utahraptor » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:17 pm

people already said drop out

you have no good reason to say

sorry that you wasted some time

at least you don't have to keep going with something you hate

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haus
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby haus » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:44 pm

Yes, your grades will likely need to be reported to any subsequent grad school program that you decide to apply to. Although how much consideration will be given to these grades will likely vary by the types of programs and the schools themselves.

For what it is worth, I suspect that the employment options for non-doctorate level psychology programs are likely horrible. Perhaps you will be lucky and a single bad semester in law school may prevent you from moving forward on an even worse career path.

ETA: I know that at times, especially when you are young, it feels like you need to have a the choice or the path all sorted out. The reality is that this is seldom how life works out. Who knows, maybe you move forward with this, maybe your life takes a detour, either way, it is quite likely that it is not nearly as big of a deal as you have worked it up to be in your head at this moment.
Last edited by haus on Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eed333
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby eed333 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:48 pm

"It's been a horrible bad no good very bad day and I need input. I feel like I know what to do yet cant even say it."

Okay Progress01, I don't post much but I just read this and felt concerned about you and wanted to let you know that it's going to be okay. You'll be fine. It'll be fine. it will get better.

I'll post a longer response or PM you soon. I just wanted to remind you that everything will be okay. I promise.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: A case for dropping out?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:59 pm

OP, you will be fine. Yes, with those grades at a T4, you should drop out. But this is not the end of the world. There are other things out there for you. You'll be okay!




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