is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

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mvp99
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby mvp99 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:39 pm

I know 2ls at M above the median that struggled to get jobs in the area. Can't imagine how hard it would be coming out of MSU. Start networking yesterday and good luck with finding a job.

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sublime
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby sublime » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:46 pm

..

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:03 pm

I doubt LR would benefit you all that much - I agree that hands-on activities like mock trial, or simply interning/externing as much as you can, would be more helpful. It seems to me that the path you're following will find connections/hustle/experience much more useful than LR.

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Danger Zone
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby Danger Zone » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:15 am

Fuck no. What an utterly useless activity.

AReasonableMan
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby AReasonableMan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:21 am

sublime wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Michigander wrote:Thank you all for your replies and advice. I've already talked to my relatives but more input is appreciated.

I'm at MSU so can someone tell me if it's 2d tier or "TTT" and any info on the prestige of its law review?


How does it help with judges? I figured that individual clients don't care but what about banks, hospitals, businesses, etc.?

I plan on living and practicing where I grew up. I'll be a solo practitioner under my relative. Will it help significantly as a solo practitioner?


Also, would it help get a job as a small town judge or prosecuting attorney/attorney general of a small county? The town I grew up in has less than 100,000 people living in it. My relative told me after enough years of practicing and building a good reputation within the county I could run for judge or some other respected position.


Needless to say I'm not interested in "Big Law" at all. I plan on carrying on my relative's practice with my sibling and remain where I grew up, a small town, and am wondering if law review will benefit me throughout my life or not, particularly when I'm 35 years old and older.

I understand law review has a great number of benefits and is a once in a life opportunity. But I wonder if I should join mock trial and other more "hands-on" activities in lieu of law review. I've been told LR at MSU takes up to 14-20 hours a week.

Reasons why I think I should not do law review: (1) calmer 2L year, (2) more time for other legal/school activities, (3) more time for social and personal life, (4) more time to dedicate to grades. Reason (4) is most important as I have a challenge scholarship - my scholarship amount depends on my grades and has a minimum of 3.5.

Reasons to do law review: (1) increased marketability, (2) networking. That's all I understand so far.


WOW. You have to keep a 3.5 gpa to keep your scholarship. You NEVER should have gone to MSU. Nonetheless, as I stated, the aftermentioned people are the only people who care about law review. If you don't finish in the Top 30%, then I would not do it. It will be a waste of time. It is only for prestige. No one cares except the people I just mentioned. And they only care b/c of prestige or being on law review is very academic so professors care about that shit. Other than that, I wasn't on it. No one asked me why and I landed jobs at Big Law and government agencies.


Especially interesting advice coming from you, Sparty.

The GPA by itself is meaningless. The consensus grading for law school isn't like it is for college where an A in Harvard is probably an A at Arizona State. It's all relative to the curve. Generally, unless the school tries to fail x percentage out to keep its bar passage high, professors try to give the highest grade the curve allows them to.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby UnicornHunter » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:04 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I doubt LR would benefit you all that much - I agree that hands-on activities like mock trial, or simply interning/externing as much as you can, would be more helpful. It seems to me that the path you're following will find connections/hustle/experience much more useful than LR.


This is one of the few posts ITT that's responsive to the OP's situation and helpful. Good advice from Nony as usual.

GOATlawman
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby GOATlawman » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:18 am

In your situation law review would not be at all helpful. Mock trial, or better yet, more realistic advocacy would be much much better. (Mock trial is kind of a silly sandbox, mostly made for the kids that have been playing it since high school, but better than nothing. Real representation, through externship or whatever is best)

Law review teaches you zero skills, and adds zero marketability towards any of your potential clients. These are only things you should be concerned with if you are going to a small firm.

ClubberLang
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby ClubberLang » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:48 pm

Michigander wrote:
Reasons to do law review: (1) increased marketability, (2) networking. That's all I understand so far.


I might get ridiculed for saying this, but Law Review actually does improve your writing. That said, it sucks, but the 14-20 hours per week estimate is ridiculous. If you don't do the board, you can get away with 3-4/wk as a 2L and 1-2 as a 3L. The main benefit is with 2L OCI, when the only thing you can say about Law Review is that you are on it. Just do the bare minimum.

Regarding your relatives firm, I'm sure it is a sweet gig and all but you may want to keep as many doors open as you can this early in your career.

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jbagelboy
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:06 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
Michigander wrote:
Reasons to do law review: (1) increased marketability, (2) networking. That's all I understand so far.


I might get ridiculed for saying this, but Law Review actually does improve your writing. That said, it sucks, but the 14-20 hours per week estimate is ridiculous. If you don't do the board, you can get away with 3-4/wk as a 2L and 1-2 as a 3L. The main benefit is with 2L OCI, when the only thing you can say about Law Review is that you are on it. Just do the bare minimum.


the bolded is definitely false at many schools.

CanadianWolf
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:12 pm

Law review should result in more employment options as well as to bolster the value of your law degree from a non-top tier law school.
As to whether law review is of more value to you versus mock trial depends upon your targeted area of practice & size of law firm.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:29 pm

Is anybody even reading the OP's original and subsequent posts?

OP: Keep in mind that you're getting responses from people attending elite schools that are aspiring for elite jobs (clerkships, big law, etc.). These people can't imagine not gunning as hard as possible, and law review is just another way to add a couple inches for their eternal dick-measuring contest. Nothing wrong with that, but there's clearly a lot of people responding to your post that didn't even seem to read your original post.

For people like you who are looking to go into small and mid-size firms in your hometown market (and having no intentions to ever do big law), nobody gives a shit about law review. And after your first job, nobody will give a shit about your grades, either. They will care about your experience, your practice, your reputation, whether you can bring clients with you, etc.

So if you don't want to do law review, don't. It's mind-numbing checking of citations, trying to get a hold of professors who won't respond to your emails, writing a note about something you could care less about, and attending worthless meetings that are always at the most inconvenient times (e.g., lunch, 7PM, etc.). Plus, journal is one of those things that really sucks if you're not 100% committed to it.

Moreover, going back to your initial question, things like mock trial will be very beneficial for you. You also might want to look into clinics at your school, as well as other practical courses (e.g., writing classes, internships, externships) that provide you with credit hours. You should also take as many classes as possible that are relevant to your relative's practice so you have a good base of knowledge when you start (e.g., I usually feel pretty confident with employment assignments because I took four employment/labor classes in law school).

TL;DR: save yourself the headache of law review, try to get good grades (Cum Laude will look just as nice on your bio page as LR), go drink beers with friends, and enjoy law school. I thought 2L and 3L were LOLzy with being on a journal, so I can only imagine how great they would be if I had the foresight to ignore all the hivemind bullshit.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:02 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:
Michigander wrote:
Reasons to do law review: (1) increased marketability, (2) networking. That's all I understand so far.


I might get ridiculed for saying this, but Law Review actually does improve your writing. That said, it sucks, but the 14-20 hours per week estimate is ridiculous. If you don't do the board, you can get away with 3-4/wk as a 2L and 1-2 as a 3L. The main benefit is with 2L OCI, when the only thing you can say about Law Review is that you are on it. Just do the bare minimum.


the bolded is definitely false at many schools.


As someone who both attended MSU Law and was on law review about 5 years ago as a non-board member, the bolded is absolutely true, maybe even an over-estimation. I recall periodic 4-6 hour blocks of hunkering down on a cite checking assignment, but maybe 4 times at most a semester? And that pattern held true through both 2L and 3L years. I just know, in my memory, law review was an easy breeze.

Don't you also get class credit as a 3L? That made the time sunk all the more worth it. And the Law Review keeps an outline bank for members, so that was helpful.

So yes, everyone should do law review if they can, and the lower ranked your law school the more important it is. I'm not going to say clients care, but "Law Review" is, fairly or not, a resume proxy for "top student." When I look up an opposing attorney's profile, I look if they were on law review, just because of it's proxy value to get a sense of who I'm dealing with.

Sure, moot court or trial academy or other practical skills extra curriculars will teach you useful skills, but in the hierarchy of resume boosters, Law Review is on top.

Now I get that in your particular situation with a job lined up at a small firm you might not need a resume booster, but what the hell else are you going to law school for but to come out with the best academic profile you can?

And just to add a perhaps overlooked benefit of law review: Networking with peers. Your peers 10 years from now will be people you went to law school with, and it wouldn't hurt to get to know the other top students from your school. And being on law review gives you all a chance to hang out.

I'm sure many lawyers not on law review go on to have successful careers, but I'm of the opinion that the pros of joining always outweigh the cons.

Law Review will stay on your Resume / CV forever, will never be a detriment, and may, sometimes, be a net positive. If the time required for law review hampers your ability to maintain top grades, then you're doing something wrong.

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Nebby
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Re: is law review worth it if you have a job lined up after grad

Postby Nebby » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:47 pm

You're probably better off doing a journal in a specific area you'd like to practice, since it demonstrates some discernible commitment to a particular area. (Assuming you have a note/comment requirement for any journal). If you have no practice preference, then you should not do LR and have a relaxing 2L.

^ What I just said is very simple, and obviously if you're at a lower-ranked school LR is better (though grades will make up for the lack of LR). But all of that has been covered above, so I won't rephrase what has already been adequately covered.




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