Law school an indicator of success in the legal field? Forum

[PotLuck]

I just got my grades back. I'll spare you the details but lets just say like many I am not happy about them. I have been working a clerkship for the last 2 weeks and I really like what I'm doing and the pay is great. However, I always told myself if I didn't get a solid gpa I would drop out. Admittedly I did not do great my first year (slightly below median). How does this measure with the actual practice of law? I really love clerking but I don't want to kid myself if I'm going to suck as a lawyer. I will have about $130k in debt from a regional when all is said and done. Should I stick it out since I enjoy what I'm doing or should I face the reality?

[NotMyRealName09]

I'm not sure anyone can give you an answer for this. Law school is not law practice, as you know. Could you be successful as a lawyer despite median grades? Sure. Landing that first job might be more difficult with median grades, but it's hard to generalize. No one here can tell you if you're going to suck as a lawyer. It isn't crazy to think that those with great grades generally turn out to be good lawyers (and those with poor grades turn into poor lawyers) - but there are just so many variables that make generalizing difficult. I think the real question is - will you be able to get a job? That's the $130k question. If you enjoy it, and your employer likes your work, and you can get a job, stick it out.

[transferror]

When you say your school is "regional," do you mean Vandy/UCLA/UT-type regional or TTT-with-less-than-40%-employment regional?

[jbagelboy]

as suggested above, 1L law school performance doesn't correlate in a meaningful way with how good of an attorney you are, but it does have serious implications for what kind of attorney you can be - as you're well aware, since it's the only true comparative metric for employers to go on, your grades mean quite a lot at first for hiring. The focus should be on getting a decent first job - getting your foot in the door - after which your personality, work habits, organizations, non-exam driven intellect, and other variables will ultimately overshadow any lingering doubts related to your performance in school. It's an indicator of success insofar as it serves as a barrier to entry.

[PotLuck]

Thanks for the replies! I go to a TT with ~60% employment according to lst. Big law is definitely out for me, I have no aspirations for that anymore anyway. I was hoping to work for the government honestly. My current paid clerkship will let me stay in the position until I graduate how ever they can't promise me a job unless an opening arises. It is great hands on experience, I spend most of my day researching and writing.

I want to stick it out, I just want to be as objective as possible (which I understand is difficult to do) so any advice would be much appreciated! To those that have replied so far, thank you!

[MinEMorris]

One time I was talking with another law student about how good of a proxy law school rank is for determining the quality of a person's lawyering skills. She brought up that she had read a law review article that examined the usefulness of different potential predictors of long-term success in the legal field. Apparently, IIRC, relying on different data, the law review article concluded that law school rank is by far the best predictor for long-term legal career success, even over law school attended. I didn't ask for the law review article, though, so I have no idea if what she said is true. And even if the article exists, more details are needed about how they measured "career success", the data they relied on, and what other predictors they looked at before the article's conclusion could really be considered illuminating. I just figured I'd share this bit of hearsay and let you know that there might be articles out there on this topic.

Honestly, if you really enjoy law and want to become a great lawyer, I have a very hard time believing that you would find yourself somehow "capped" and unable to excel as a lawyer. Most lawyers, even those in high level positions, don't really strive to improve, at least from what I've seen. I don't think, for example, that most biglaw attorneys work through legal writing manuals or take classes on advanced research techniques in their free time. If you feel motivated and put in the effort to really improve your lawyering skills, I can't imagine that you wouldn't find yourself at a high skill level quickly. Not to be contentious, but law just isn't that hard, and there aren't that many people working hard to up their game.

That said, just because you become a great lawyer, don't expect great career opportunities. Legal recruiting is pretty shallow for the most part. Out of law school, it's basically about what school you attended and what your grades were. From what I've heard, after law school it becomes primarily about what your previous job was (which, ironically, was determined by law school shit). People do prove themselves to the top, but I get the sense that it is certainly the hard route.

Good luck to you.

[transferror]

I wish you the best, but as jbagelboy pointed out, your grades determine where you start on the totem pole. Unlike other careers, your longterm career prospects in law are pretty dependent on your entry-level position after graduation. You're best outcome at below median is probably going to be making 35-50k at a small firm, and depending on type of work they do, you could be pigeonholed in insurance defense or medical malpractice or personal injury for the majority of your career. Worse, you might spend years doing doc review. You will struggle to pay off that 130k on a small firm salary with very little career mobility.

If you enjoy practicing law and know what you're up against, then don't drop out. But you need to realize this is going to be an uphill battle and could end very poorly if you don't get your grades above median.

[PotLuck]

Yeah I definitely recognize that if I stay it will be an uphill battle. I did win best oral argument and was also able to write on to law review. With these and my clerkship do you think it will make much of a difference?

[jbagelboy]

Yeah I definitely recognize that if I stay it will be an uphill battle. I did win best oral argument and was also able to write on to law review. With these and my clerkship do you think it will make much of a difference?

those are both pretty substantive achievements. congrats. sounds like you could have a future as a litigator, idk

[heavoldgotjuice]

Everything really depends on how much you are paying at your current law school (tuition + fees + living expenses), the likelihood of finding a job after graduation (you said 60%), the average salary of those employed after graduation, and the cost of living in your target market (regional?).

However, if the above is positive then:

If you are loving what you are doing, then keep doing it.

You wrote onto law review, you did well in moot court, and you're enjoying your time at a firm this summer. Others may flame me for my opinion, but I think you should have faith in yourself and continue trying your best as you seem to have been... you will make connections, and others will notice you're work ethic + law review + moot court + other future accomplishments.

[transferror]

Yeah I definitely recognize that if I stay it will be an uphill battle. I did win best oral argument and was also able to write on to law review. With these and my clerkship do you think it will make much of a difference?

I'm not saying this will save you, but those kinds of achievements add up and will definitely help separate you from everyone else in the 3.0-3.3 range (assuming your curve is close to normal). LR is of particular importance, since that will be a lifeline to resources/connections. At TT regionals, LR is probably the single biggest one-stop resource for connections to successful alum, and it's more of a necessary prerequisite for good jobs (especially firms) than roughly the top 25 schools or so.

[hooeyl]

Somewhat relevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/google-h ... tes-2013-6