After Grades - What did we learn?

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ender04
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby ender04 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:02 pm

I got all H's at Harvard, except for a P in stupid legal research and writing. LRW, if you don't go to Harvard, is incidentally the only class that isn't graded blind - but I'm probably only pointing that out because I'm bitter. :|

I have no idea how well I did relative to my peers given that theoretically the whole top third of my section could've done just as well as me, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Anyway, though, I learned there are two simple steps to (relative) success:

1) Do all the readings, be prepared for class, but don't sweat the details (facts), even if it's embarrassing to be called out on that in class.

2) Be able to write well. I don't know how to say this any other way. I don't believe in IRAC/CRuPAC (I'm pretty sure they really just stand for this writing's CRAP). This probably also relates to my P in LRW.

Now, this "advice" probably doesn't apply to profs who believe stupid things (like that corporations should be taught as an anti-corporation philosophy class). For those people, writing well and doing the readings clearly isn't enough - you've got to whore yourself out to their philosophies. However, I was lucky enough not to have any of those intellectual snobs last semester - pure black letter for me.

(For the record, I pretty much hate it here, and am seriously considering dropping out; I probably would've already if I could get health insurance any other way.)

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apper123
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby apper123 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:15 pm

ender04 wrote:I got all H's at Harvard, except for a P in stupid legal research and writing. LRW, if you don't go to Harvard, is incidentally the only class that isn't graded blind - but I'm probably only pointing that out because I'm bitter. :|

I have no idea how well I did relative to my peers given that theoretically the whole top third of my section could've done just as well as me, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Anyway, though, I learned there are two simple steps to (relative) success:

1) Do all the readings, be prepared for class, but don't sweat the details (facts), even if it's embarrassing to be called out on that in class.

2) Be able to write well. I don't know how to say this any other way. I don't believe in IRAC/CRuPAC (I'm pretty sure they really just stand for this writing's CRAP). This probably also relates to my P in LRW.

Now, this "advice" probably doesn't apply to profs who believe stupid things (like that corporations should be taught as an anti-corporation philosophy class). For those people, writing well and doing the readings clearly isn't enough - you've got to whore yourself out to their philosophies. However, I was lucky enough not to have any of those intellectual snobs last semester - pure black letter for me.

(For the record, I pretty much hate it here, and am seriously considering dropping out; I probably would've already if I could get health insurance any other way.)


Why not try to transfer to Yale or Columbia or even a lower ranked T14 with a different type of student body?

I mean graduating top 1/3 at Harvard is a key to untold riches and clerkships and whatever you want really.

legends159
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby legends159 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:28 pm

If he hates it at HLS why would he like it at YLS?

He probably just hates law school in general.

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sayan
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby sayan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:32 pm

ender04 wrote:I got all H's at Harvard, except for a P in stupid legal research and writing. LRW, if you don't go to Harvard, is incidentally the only class that isn't graded blind - but I'm probably only pointing that out because I'm bitter. :|

I have no idea how well I did relative to my peers given that theoretically the whole top third of my section could've done just as well as me, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Anyway, though, I learned there are two simple steps to (relative) success:

1) Do all the readings, be prepared for class, but don't sweat the details (facts), even if it's embarrassing to be called out on that in class.

2) Be able to write well. I don't know how to say this any other way. I don't believe in IRAC/CRuPAC (I'm pretty sure they really just stand for this writing's CRAP). This probably also relates to my P in LRW.

Now, this "advice" probably doesn't apply to profs who believe stupid things (like that corporations should be taught as an anti-corporation philosophy class). For those people, writing well and doing the readings clearly isn't enough - you've got to whore yourself out to their philosophies. However, I was lucky enough not to have any of those intellectual snobs last semester - pure black letter for me.

(For the record, I pretty much hate it here, and am seriously considering dropping out; I probably would've already if I could get health insurance any other way.)


:shock: Reasons?

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apper123
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby apper123 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:33 pm

legends159 wrote:If he hates it at HLS why would he like it at YLS?

He probably just hates law school in general.


touche

ender04
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby ender04 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:50 pm

sayan wrote:
ender04 wrote:
(For the record, I pretty much hate it here, and am seriously considering dropping out; I probably would've already if I could get health insurance any other way.)


:shock: Reasons?


Not to worry; there's nothing particularly wrong with HLS.

Yeah, it's pretty much personal issues, I guess. I don't feel like I fit in, it's cold out, days are short, it costs too much, and I'm really far from my friends and family back home. More fundamentally, I never had a very good reason for becoming a lawyer, and, honestly, law school has just made me less interested in practicing law or even becoming an academic. I like the classes and all (particularly a lot of the readings), but I just don't feel like I mesh with this place or even with the profession.

But, anyway, sorry for taking this thread off-topic, but I know I was a bit unfair in saying that at the end of my last post; I just thought it might be useful in terms of disclosure (plus I guess I'm in a bad mood). In terms of disclosure, one reason I have decent grades is that my social life isn't too hot....

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sayan
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby sayan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:53 pm

ender04 wrote:
sayan wrote:
ender04 wrote:
(For the record, I pretty much hate it here, and am seriously considering dropping out; I probably would've already if I could get health insurance any other way.)


:shock: Reasons?


Not to worry; there's nothing particularly wrong with HLS.

Yeah, it's pretty much personal issues, I guess. I don't feel like I fit in, it's cold out, days are short, it costs too much, and I'm really far from my friends and family back home. More fundamentally, I never had a very good reason for becoming a lawyer, and, honestly, law school has just made me less interested in practicing law or even becoming an academic. I like the classes and all (particularly a lot of the readings), but I just don't feel like I mesh with this place or even with the profession.

But, anyway, sorry for taking this thread off-topic, but I know I was a bit unfair in saying that at the end of my last post; I just thought it might be useful in terms of disclosure (plus I guess I'm in a bad mood). In terms of disclosure, one reason I have decent grades is that my social life isn't too hot....


Not a problem at all. Thanks for sharing :) On the bright side, a Harvard JD is a pretty versatile degree so I'm sure if you have other talents you can leverage them to exit the legal industry per se.

Did you by any chance use any supplements or 3rd-party outlines during your semester? I suppose you studied around the clock?

ender04
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby ender04 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:13 pm

sayan wrote:Did you by any chance use any supplements or 3rd-party outlines during your semester? I suppose you studied around the clock?


No supplements or outlines. I outlined everything from scratch at the end of the semester. I guess I could give you more details about my study method, although I tend to think that doing what seems natural to you is the best approach.

Like I said, the bulk of my "studying" was just doing all the readings and preparing for class (i.e., glancing over the readings right before). You’ll probably be surprised at how many people end up not doing that.

While reading, I tended to make "book briefs" - just jotting the holding and a few facts in the margins of my casebooks. I also underlined everything I found salient, but no highlighting/color-coding (that just isn't my style). At first, I was doing full typed notes on all my readings, but that lasted less than a month.

For my toughest class (CivPro, also the last exam), I started studying for real a few weeks before classes ended. By then, all your activities are pretty much over or at least winding down, so there's some time to study. For CivPro, I probably overprepared, but I ended up re-reading everything that'd I'd underlined (and I'm a pretty liberal underliner) and making more thorough notes; what I would call an "outline." But, for me, all that was was a typed copy of the miniature briefs I'd made. For that class, I also briefed cases that were just mentioned in the notes after the primary cases, which probably isn't necessary.

Right before finals (like, the couple of dead days you get before finals), I started doing similar things as I'd done for CivPro for my other classes. I continued studying CivPro right to the end, though. Two of my exams were take-home (you get 8 hours to do them), so I didn't study nearly as hard for those. Nonetheess, I spent approximately 14 hours per day studying (productively, with the internet off) each day for the five days or so before exams started, and then kind of tapered down as exams started (you have like two weeks over which 4 exams are spread out, and I actually finished studying early).

Also, I at least outlined answers to every exam question available for each of my profs for the previous 1-4 years (depending on availability of exams). For my timed tests (3 hours), I also went ahead and sat for that amount of time to actually take one of those tests for each of those two classes. I also tested the crap out of the exam software we used, which surprisingly a lot of people didn’t do, which meant that they ran into computer problems during the actual tests.

I also met with a little study group one time, which was good to go over practice exam answers, but definitely not entirely necessary. To be honest, it was probably more like a boost to my ego – yes, I know this at least as well as some of the people in my class. For that reason, I’d recommend that you not seek out the people who really seem to know everything, because I think that can be an ego-deflator; look for people who are on your level.

Basically, my primary advice is to keep up during the school year, and you should be okay. Either that or I had tremendous luck, because I don’t necessarily feel like I worked much harder for the end-of-term studying than some people who were disappointed by their grades.

Anyway, enough procrastinating. I hope some of my “wisdom” may be helpful to somebody. Good luck everyone.

Snooker
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Snooker » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:14 am

I just found out I had done super well on my exam when I picked it up from that prof. Can't explain why.

I think that is a common thread running through a lot of after grades, what did we learn? People got good grades, but can't explain why. My theory is that there are a number of skills not taught in classes - the LSAT measures some - and these skills probably lend a lot to success on exams.

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vanwinkle
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:52 am

Snooker wrote:I just found out I had done super well on my exam when I picked it up from that prof. Can't explain why.

I think that is a common thread running through a lot of after grades, what did we learn? People got good grades, but can't explain why. My theory is that there are a number of skills not taught in classes - the LSAT measures some - and these skills probably lend a lot to success on exams.

I spoke with my professor about the exam that got me my worst grade. It turns out the difference between that exam and the one where I got my best grade is far more subtle than I would've expected, but clear enough to understand and teach me what I need to know to improve next semester.

Unfortunately I don't feel like I can say any more about it than that, because of how many other UVA peeps are reading and what they might be able to figure out from it.

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thesealocust
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:03 am

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:05 am

thesealocust wrote:Your posts over the past weeks have been like a fun logic game. We're pretty sure we know exactly what you have already, don't worry ;)

That assumes I haven't been making a consistent effort to mislead you :wink:

Also, who's "we"? Is this how the rest of the TLS UVAers entertain themselves, getting together and trying to decipher what my grades are?

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thesealocust
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:10 am

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:47 am

And once again, I feel thankful that no one in my section is still on TLS. I got into enough trouble for accidentally discussing my Crim Law grade in a bar full of my classmates. I'll have to be more careful. :mrgreen:

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flyingpanda
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby flyingpanda » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:56 am

OperaSoprano wrote:And once again, I feel thankful that no one in my section is still on TLS. I got into enough trouble for accidentally discussing my Crim Law grade in a bar full of my classmates. I'll have to be more careful. :mrgreen:


I saw a post where they talked about you on autoadmit. Somebody said something like, "if you drop in one of the evening classes and scan the room, you'd be able to pick out OS instantly."

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thesealocust
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:00 am

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AtticusFinch
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby AtticusFinch » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:14 pm

Does anyone know if Snooker rocked his exams?...Anyone?

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Cavalier
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Cavalier » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:06 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Your posts over the past weeks have been like a fun logic game. We're pretty sure we know exactly what you have already, don't worry ;)

That assumes I haven't been making a consistent effort to mislead you :wink:

Also, who's "we"? Is this how the rest of the TLS UVAers entertain themselves, getting together and trying to decipher what my grades are?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105714

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holydonkey
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby holydonkey » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:08 pm

.

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vanwinkle
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:03 pm

Cavalier wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Your posts over the past weeks have been like a fun logic game. We're pretty sure we know exactly what you have already, don't worry ;)

That assumes I haven't been making a consistent effort to mislead you :wink:

Also, who's "we"? Is this how the rest of the TLS UVAers entertain themselves, getting together and trying to decipher what my grades are?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=105714

:?:

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rbgrocio
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:03 pm

I learned that I didn't get the book award I wanted and that someone who is always unprepared to class, looks like he is high all the time and does not seem to care about crap got one.

Snooker
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Snooker » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:11 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Snooker wrote:I just found out I had done super well on my exam when I picked it up from that prof. Can't explain why.

I think that is a common thread running through a lot of after grades, what did we learn? People got good grades, but can't explain why. My theory is that there are a number of skills not taught in classes - the LSAT measures some - and these skills probably lend a lot to success on exams.

I spoke with my professor about the exam that got me my worst grade. It turns out the difference between that exam and the one where I got my best grade is far more subtle than I would've expected, but clear enough to understand and teach me what I need to know to improve next semester.

Unfortunately I don't feel like I can say any more about it than that, because of how many other UVA peeps are reading and what they might be able to figure out from it.


On the exam I mentioned, the difference between a bad/good exam was said to be pretty huge. On our LRW papers, 1 small mistake was basically equal to an entire grade level. I think the difference was that the law exam asked really difficult questions. My jaw dropped pretty much every time I got through the hypos. It wasn't the whole spot issue, grind issue formula, dear god no. It was a real head-spinner. The paper we got was an extremely easy assignment with an ultra-simplistic hypo and some ultra-simplistic cases. Hence, pretty much everyone turned in the same thing and tiny details made the difference.

It also seems like a lot of people who just absolutely understood nothing about the law they were studying nonetheless did very well on their exams.

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chadwick218
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:32 am

chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!


So I have learned that as the situation described above was not remedied as both the professor and school ultimately refused to remedy, I will be transfer at the end of the semester (I was actually planning on transfering anyways so this matters very little).

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RVP11
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:13 am

Cavalier wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Your posts over the past weeks have been like a fun logic game. We're pretty sure we know exactly what you have already, don't worry ;)

That assumes I haven't been making a consistent effort to mislead you :wink:

Also, who's "we"? Is this how the rest of the TLS UVAers entertain themselves, getting together and trying to decipher what my grades are?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=105714


Good spot there.

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vanwinkle
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:33 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Your posts over the past weeks have been like a fun logic game. We're pretty sure we know exactly what you have already, don't worry ;)

That assumes I haven't been making a consistent effort to mislead you :wink:

Also, who's "we"? Is this how the rest of the TLS UVAers entertain themselves, getting together and trying to decipher what my grades are?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=105714

Good spot there.

I'm still confused by this.




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