After Grades - What did we learn?

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
apper123
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby apper123 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:01 pm

Cavalier wrote:
apper123 wrote:wee class rank is up

first semester is now complete

After all your posts about grades I was expecting you to post your rank. It must not have been a single digit or else you would have posted it, I'm guessing.


it's a single digit

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Cavalier » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:03 pm

Congrats!

User avatar
apper123
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby apper123 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:06 pm

ty i wish you UVA guys would get your grades. im starting to feel bad for you (kind of, you do still go to UVA) reading this thread every day

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:07 pm

apper123 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
apper123 wrote:wee class rank is up

first semester is now complete

After all your posts about grades I was expecting you to post your rank. It must not have been a single digit or else you would have posted it, I'm guessing.


it's a single digit

Dude, congrats. Keep it up and you'll be transferring to far better places before too long.

User avatar
Lawl Shcool
Posts: 763
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:12 pm

apper123 wrote:wee class rank is up

first semester is now complete


Congrats, I'm still waiting on this.

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:13 pm

So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!
Last edited by chadwick218 on Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dt15
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:19 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby dt15 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:16 pm

chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!


Protest and fight like hell... assuming you have nothing to lose.

User avatar
Aeroplane
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Aeroplane » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:16 pm

chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!
That seems really wrong. You should ask the registrar's office what the policy is, not the professor who may just not want to deal with it. We probably go to different schools, but I was told by one of my profs that, while disputing grades is generally not entertained, clerical errors (computation, data entry, etc) are the major exception to that rule.

Edit: I have no experience disputing grades (I haven't even gotten any). He was just talking about the topic generally.
Last edited by Aeroplane on Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:17 pm

Aeroplane wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!
That seems really wrong. You should ask the registrar's office what the policy is, not the professor who may just not want to deal with it. We probably go to different schools, but I was told by one of my profs that, while disputing grades is generally not entertained, clerical errors (computation, data entry, etc) are the major exception to that rule.

Absolutely. A clear grading error like this should be appealable. Talk to the dean's office if you have to. Fight this as hard as you can, you shouldn't have to take it.

sophie316
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:08 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby sophie316 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:18 pm

chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!


You should check your schools policy on this. My school specifically says that the ONLY reason grades can be changed after the fact is because of a computational error.

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Cavalier » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:20 pm

chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!

That's crazy. You need to get that grade changed. Have you gone to the Dean about this? If that doesn't work, I would take it to the administration of your university. They probably don't care as much about preserving the sacredness of the curve as the law school professors do, and will want you to receive the grade you earned.

Giving you a higher grade would presumably mess up the curve, but I think the fairest solution would be to simply not fix it. A couple students will get lucky as a result. Oh well. Better than to deny you the grade you earned, and better than to retroactively lower their grades (especially if they already applied to jobs).

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 pm

chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!


I met with the Registrar's Office today and have a meeting with the Dean of Students tomorrow. The response that I have pretty much received is "so what, professors have discretion." As much as I agree with that statement, if such discretion is based on large part on a quantitative tabulation and if such tabulation is incorrect, then I feel as though recourse is appropriate.

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:32 pm

Also, having previously gone through business school, I am still amazed as to how secretive professors in law school treat grading and how much sheer mystery is involved ... nevertheless, I knew this going in!

User avatar
Aeroplane
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Aeroplane » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:35 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!


I met with the Registrar's Office today and have a meeting with the Dean of Students tomorrow. The response that I have pretty much received is "so what, professors have discretion." As much as I agree with that statement, if such discretion is based on large part on a quantitative tabulation and if such tabulation is incorrect, then I feel as though recourse is appropriate.

+1. He wasn't using "discretion" to give you a lower grade. If he'd lowered it for, say, poor participation in class, that would be discretion. He used his discretion, properly, to devise a grading system and then, unintentionally, erred in basic arithmetic. AFAIK "discretion" implies awareness & deliberate decision-making.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:39 pm

Yeah that's fucked up, I'd fight like hell.

User avatar
mac.empress
Posts: 302
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:45 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby mac.empress » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:45 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:Yeah that's fucked up, I'd fight like hell.


+1

User avatar
Aeroplane
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Aeroplane » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:46 pm

I wonder how broadly their logic of "discretion" = "grades can't be changed post-submission" would be applied in practice? What if a professor made the same type of computation error, but to a larger degree where the difference was b/w an A- and a C? Or swapped grades accidentally for two people with the same common last name? Or accidentally entered the entire section's grades one row off and somehow didn't catch it so that everyone was given the grade of the person preceding/following them in the alphabet? I can't imagine any administration letting the last one go, so presumably it's not an absolute principle.

User avatar
TTT-LS
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby TTT-LS » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:52 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rbgrocio
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby rbgrocio » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:24 pm

apper123 wrote:wee class rank is up

first semester is now complete



We do not get ranked until the end of Spring Semester... =(

User avatar
apper123
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby apper123 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:02 pm

TTT-LS wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!

Wow. I've actually heard of this happening, and of the grade being corrected. But that was in a spring elective, perhaps uncurved. Talk to Dean Lupo immediately.


I feel like in this situation they should make a rare exception to a curve and give the correct grade to the wronged person. However, it would be super terrible to readjust the curve and drop people way after the fact. Can schools do this and keep their integrity?

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Cavalier » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:08 pm

apper123 wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:So after meeting with a professor today, I learned that a mistake was made in tallying up the total # of points on my exam and although the correct tabulation would have resulted with me receiving a higher grade, since grades have been submitted, I have no recourse. I'm not whining, but I have a very hard time agreeing with this!

Wow. I've actually heard of this happening, and of the grade being corrected. But that was in a spring elective, perhaps uncurved. Talk to Dean Lupo immediately.

I feel like in this situation they should make a rare exception to a curve and give the correct grade to the wronged person. However, it would be super terrible to readjust the curve and drop people way after the fact. Can schools do this and keep their integrity?

I don't think there is any other proper solution but to award the proper grade and let the screwed-up curve stand. It's unfair to someone to be left with a lower grade just because of a mathematical error, but it's also unfair for someone to have their GPA retroactively lowered due to the same error. However, the harm to the rest of the student body from letting the irregular curve stand will be trivial (unless it will cause the person who would be adversely affected to grade on to law review).

User avatar
mallard
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 am

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby mallard » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:09 pm

That's fucked up and must be fought. Seriously, there's something wrong if that stands at a law school.

User avatar
apper123
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby apper123 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:36 pm

I'd honestly go past the law school dean and the whole way to the university president if that were me. (This assumes the law school dean was unhelpful).

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:38 pm

apper123 wrote:I'd honestly go past the law school dean and the whole way to the university president if that were me. (This assumes the law school dean was unhelpful).


The problem is that no academic institution cares about students on an individual basis ... at the margin, an individual student is of zero value. Responses are typically only provoked by negative publicity or threat of litigation.

User avatar
mallard
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 am

Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby mallard » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:41 pm

But it's not as though you have no evidence, and changing the grade takes pretty much zero effort, right?




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: fosterman90, Jeopardyteen, shaopeng9, wg6524 and 5 guests