After Grades - What did we learn?

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mamasprout
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby mamasprout » Sat May 24, 2008 8:50 am

our grades came out yesterday. i think the biggest key for success is to figure out the right style for the class.

property: study early and often. do practice tests till you're seeing double. then do them again. used E and E for easements and covenants- that was a little hard for me to grasp at first.

civ pro: i made flashcards of the rules. i knew the rules of civil procedure like nobody's business. love glannon!

(notice i am changing verb tenses? i am so unworthy of law review)
contracts: some e &e, lots of cali lessons. outline from day one. seriously. go over outline every now and then. practice tests.

crim law and torts: while i studied (kinda) here what worked best (and for K too) i condensed the course to a 30-50 outline right before exam and memorized it. then when i got in the exam i wrote out what i had memorized and had a checklist for the massive exams. it really helped to have a template

i did well in everything. i think showing up for class is important but maybe a little over rated for some classes. ( i would cry if i had to miss property- i would cry if i had to show up for crim law). i love homemade flash cards. i love CALI. i haven't noticed you guys talking about CALI much. does anyone else use them a lot? does anyone know of another source for questions like that?
congrats everyone on the excellent grades.

06072010
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby 06072010 » Sat May 24, 2008 8:23 pm

Know the black letter law.
Know the policy that drives the black letter law.
Apply BLL and policy to facts.
?????
Profit?

I actually have no idea what works and what doesn't. I feel like I got some favorable D20 rolls. Saving throw vs. fail.

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seagull48
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby seagull48 » Mon May 26, 2008 12:05 am

first semester all my profs told us that commerical outlines and other extra study materials were a waste of money and time. all we needed was to do the reading and come to class. obviously i believed them, because hey, it was first semester. right before exams, i picked up a hornbook for torts and that was my best grade. the other two were average. second semester i got all the hornbooks and flashcards and spent more time learning the black letter law than thinking about all the policy/theoretical mumbo-jumbo that michigan profs love so much and feel like i was significantly more prepared for exams. i only have one grade so far, but i've got a good feeling about the rest.

and i know this isn't the point of the thread, but the other thing i learned is that grades actually don't matter as much as i thought they did. i got several job offers for this summer and not one of them looked at my transcript. a good writing sample seemed much more important.

Darth Topher
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Darth Topher » Mon May 26, 2008 12:12 am

very interesting thread :mrgreen:

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Mr T.
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Mr T. » Mon May 26, 2008 9:33 am

seagull48 wrote:first semester all my profs told us that commerical outlines and other extra study materials were a waste of money and time. all we needed was to do the reading and come to class. obviously i believed them, because hey, it was first semester. right before exams, i picked up a hornbook for torts and that was my best grade. the other two were average. second semester i got all the hornbooks and flashcards and spent more time learning the black letter law than thinking about all the policy/theoretical mumbo-jumbo that michigan profs love so much and feel like i was significantly more prepared for exams. i only have one grade so far, but i've got a good feeling about the rest.

and i know this isn't the point of the thread, but the other thing i learned is that grades actually don't matter as much as i thought they did. i got several job offers for this summer and not one of them looked at my transcript. a good writing sample seemed much more important.


That's because you go to Michigan.

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seagull48
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby seagull48 » Mon May 26, 2008 1:02 pm

That's because you go to Michigan.



true statement, and i see your point, but i don't think "i go to michigan and so my grades don't matter" is an obvious inference. most of my classmates still don't get it.

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Corsair
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Corsair » Mon May 26, 2008 4:39 pm

..

Eremite
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Eremite » Thu May 29, 2008 5:34 pm

Corsair has spoken the truth, once again. As does Seagull in observing that Professors can't necessarily be trusted to tell you how best to study for their course. You may be smarter than them, or not as smart as them, but you are not them may not think like them.

Much of the law is the same no matter how it is sliced. Reading the E&E books was very helpful to me, and I noticed that for my classes, with only a few exceptions (my property teacher has tenured his way out of conformity), the E&E books usually have good coverage of the material. I am sure the same is true for other materials.

This will probably sound stupid, but one of the great secrets to law school is understanding the material. Yeah, I know, a year's worth of tuition and all I got was a lousy platitude. But I think that is where professors are off base. They may not think like you do, and so their perfectly acceptable explanation may not be that enlightening to you. Not to harp on my property prof, who is in fact an exceptional good teacher and a fantastic individual, but he has had 20 years of RAP and I have had none. He explained RAP to me several times. Then I read E&E, and that didn't help either. In fact, what the @*#%! is RAP anyway?

dat_raw_n_tellect
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby dat_raw_n_tellect » Thu May 29, 2008 6:39 pm

In fact, what the @*#%! is RAP anyway?


Haha, property is definitely the spawn of Satan.

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Formerbruin
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Formerbruin » Thu May 29, 2008 9:38 pm

What I've learned: Don't get a horrible stomach virus and end up in the hospital two days before a closed book final.

06072010
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby 06072010 » Thu May 29, 2008 9:46 pm

What I've learned: Don't get a horrible stomach virus and end up in the hospital two days before a closed book final.


That sucks man.

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bocifious
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby bocifious » Thu May 29, 2008 11:52 pm

SecondTimeAround wrote:How did you manage to type 7,000 words? In four hours? That's amazing.


I'm awesome. Or, I type extremely fast (90-100wpm pretty easily) and I spent most of the time typing (knew most of the elements already from studying). Really, 7,000/4hrs/60mins= 30wpm continually typing, not hard to get over 8,000 words in 4 hours when you type more than double that speed. But even at 7,000 words I had pretty much run out of anything relevant to talk about, so it's not like this is a normal occurrence.

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DelDad
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby DelDad » Fri May 30, 2008 4:00 pm

Very happy with my second semester.

I've learned that I learn better from making and studying from charts than I do from traditional outlines

Excel charts, organized by black letter law concept with example cases and one sentence of notes that can be dropped into an exam, seem to do the trick. After printing, the many-paged chart goes into a notebook keyed to a few dozen post-it tabs (with the BLL concept written on them) instead of a table of contents.

Substantively:

If the RAP troubles you, get "The Little Book on Perpetuities": --LinkRemoved--

06072010
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby 06072010 » Fri May 30, 2008 4:03 pm

Congrats, Deldad. Nontrads seem to be mopping up this semester. Go old people!

If Uzu ever goes to law school, maybe we can test if the extremely elderly can do well too.

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DelDad
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby DelDad » Fri May 30, 2008 4:40 pm

Thanks man - if you end up somewhere in the Mid-Atlantic after your successful transfer, we need to grab a beer together.

SecondTimeAround
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby SecondTimeAround » Sat May 31, 2008 7:43 am

Excel charts, organized by black letter law concept with example cases and one sentence of notes that can be dropped into an exam, seem to do the trick. After printing, the many-paged chart goes into a notebook keyed to a few dozen post-it tabs (with the BLL concept written on them) instead of a table of contents.


I did something like that last semester for torts and found it helpful to learn the material. Unfortunately the exam was closed-book and an early panic attack prevented me from remembering much of the material.

Eremite
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Eremite » Sat May 31, 2008 11:46 am

Thanks DelDad. Good to hear from you. I hope that things are going well in school X. (I remember which, I just don't know if you are keen on publicity).

So, here is a funny follow-up to my RAP comment, I got an A in Property. Still don't know how RAP works. Oh well, better brush up.
Last edited by Eremite on Sat May 31, 2008 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Corsair
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Corsair » Sat May 31, 2008 1:52 pm

..

SecondTimeAround
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby SecondTimeAround » Sat May 31, 2008 3:29 pm

Maybe others knew RAP but nothing else. Eremite, good to see you back on the board again. I used to post under another name and would sign my posts. You and I had a number of good exchanges, about religion, literature, New York, etc. Glad things are going well for you, as they generally are for me.

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commoner
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby commoner » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:06 am


I'm awesome. Or, I type extremely fast (90-100wpm pretty easily) and I spent most of the time typing (knew most of the elements already from studying). Really, 7,000/4hrs/60mins= 30wpm continually typing, not hard to get over 8,000 words in 4 hours when you type more than double that speed. But even at 7,000 words I had pretty much run out of anything relevant to talk about, so it's not like this is a normal occurrence.



haha my friend told me that there is a girl in his class who can type like a monster and she got good grades. Good typing=good grades? :shock:

Alexandria
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Alexandria » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:30 am

OK, all grades are out, and just wanted to say... yay... another happy non-trad! :) I'm not sure I see a pattern to which classes I did especially well in this year, except... well... honestly I was the most stealthly gunnerish about them. Not talkative in class (or at least without being called on by the prof, which I was in one of them a lot), but I was so into those classes that I did do a lot of independent reading. I'm still not convinced I'm super good at writing law school exams (like how to keep traditional hypo answers organized and well thought-out), and I seem to do best on the less traditional test formats, or at least those with crazy time or page restrictions (I think because I tend to be fast and succinct but not always detailed enough). But I really do feel that my non-tradness has helped me with my motivation level while at the same time giving me the perspective needed to live a balanced life.

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orangeswarm
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby orangeswarm » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:10 am

After grades, I have learned that the key to doing well on LS essay exams is not simply knowing the BLL, it is being prepared to concisely restate the BLL in the shortest form on an exam.

During the first semester, I did not take this approach. My outlines were just like any other outline, a list of the various rules regarding the subject's issues and sub issues. While this format certainly helped me spot issues on the exam, my analysis tended to strictly coincide with my outline. I analyzed each individual issue to the extreme before moving on to the next, basically ignoring the interrelationship between the various issues and factors and the main rule from which those factors and issues stem. Granted, I ended up doing very well that semester, but my organization was definitely lacking.

This semester, I changed my outline format. After creating a regular outline, I went back and transformed that into an exam outline. In this outline, each section (or main topic) was preceded by a one to two sentence rule, which attempted to encompass all the issues within its scope. When studying, I memorized each rule so that I could easily regurgitate the sentence on my exam and that is exactly what I ended up doing. While taking the exams, it almost seemed like my mind was on cruise control because I had already figured out what I was going to say for most of the questions I was asked.

When grades came in, I did MUCH better than I did my first semester. While I knew the BLL cold both semesters, having the rules laid out in sentence form made transferring information from my outline to an exam answer much easier. In the end, my exam organization greatly improved, the time spent typing (and figuring out what to type) was greatly reduced, my answers were much more readable, and my analysis was much more focused than it was the first semester (having one semester under my belt surely has a bit to do with this as well).

Eremite
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby Eremite » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:13 pm

After grades I have learned that I probably will not attempt to transfer. I am surprised, because I have wanted to ever since I got my last rejection notice from a T14 school. (I am at a T50, but not a T14 school.)

It is a strange feeling. I didn't get into to any of the T14 schools to which I applied. I even interviewed with everybody else on this site at NU. But I had a mediocre UGPA (B+s, i.e. mediocre for T14 law schools) and a good but not great LSAT.

I never told anyone that I intended to transfer--teachers, friends or family. But I have intended to since late August. I really wanted to go to a top 14, top 10 school and I have thought about it every day since then. Seriously, every single day since I started law school I have thought about transferring. I thought "I need to get good grades so that I can (a) get a good job and (b) transfer."

When I got my first GPA a cried. Good cry. I was definitely in range to transfer and to get a good job. (We actually have really solid placement where I am at, but I had a clear idea of the firms that I liked (mostly V10 and V20) so I knew I would need good grades.) I then bided (bode?) my time, and was really worried that I would fizzle out in semester number two. I got my grades two days ago and came up by 0.01. The funny thing was the absolute next thought that came to my mind was "I really don't want to transfer. I like it here (meaning the school, I am currently out of the country), and I am on target to accomplish everything I set out to regardless." My school routinely places its top students at V10 and even V5 firms, and that is really what I want to do. This summer I am working for a great firm in Europe and a Federal judge in the states in a about month, so I have no complaints.

Don't get me wrong, I am not some "my-school-is-robbed-by-the-rankings" kind of guy. We are about where we ought to be--we have pluses and minuses. Nor am I some insecure dope who tries to console himself by saying that all H-bomb students are stuffed shirts. Going to a top school would be the cheeze, for sure, and if the folks on this site are representative, then I am sure that the TLS's of the world have great folks.

But I like my school, and my professors. We have great students, and programs, and an alumni society that will positively call down fire from heaven to help a student in distress. The combination of my rank and my school is going to get me where I want to go, and with less debt (probably no debt after the second summer) than I have for my master's degree, so I think that I will stay.

Talk to me tomorrow, maybe I will change my mind.

While I am here, I should say that I have very much appreciated TLS over the past year and a half. I have turned here often for feedback and help and have greatly appreciated being part of the show.

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NewHere
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby NewHere » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:29 pm

Thanks for posting that, Eremite. Good to read. It must be a great feeling to know you have the choice of transferring out or to stay where you are in the knowledge that it will get you where you want to be.

06072010
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Re: After Grades - What did we learn?

Postby 06072010 » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:40 pm

Eremite


Whatever Eremite, I'll see you at Mich or GULC in the fall. =)




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