All grades back. No longer in a panic.

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iliketurtles123
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby iliketurtles123 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:14 am

PepperJack wrote:
iliketurtles123 wrote:Exact same situation as OP.

Now I'm terrified.
I worked my ass off last semester. I read supps, outlined throughout the semester, followed Arrow and Xeoh's guide, finished reading by Halloween. Studied 6-7 hours a day early in the semester.
I took PTs as early as possible (before my classmates). Also LSAT is >75th percentile.
It worries me since I thought the lowest grade I could get was an A-, despite doing poorly in this exam.

Now I'm worried about my other classes.
How common or uncommon is it to get a random low grade for no reason (doing the same amount of work for all classes but getting one bad grade)?

I know the answer is "wait for other grades" but considering I did the same thing for all my classes, it doesn't look good (I did somewhat "adapt" and mold my studying based on the class and professor though).

This isn't what you want to here, but grades tend to be somewhat consistent. You normally have the people who get all A-s and As, the ones who get all B's and B-'s, the majority who range from a B to an A- throughout and the outliers who can get an A or a B on a given day.

It's more likely to be an outlier if the format was different. Generally, the first class has the hardest curve because everyone knows it so well. The fourth class is easy to burnout on so those also may have a discrepancy. The truth is the only thing you learn moving forward is what is actually important to focus on, and you realize all the stressing out does nothing but make you think more stupider.


I'd rather have honesty than people telling me "it's going to be ok".
Actually this class was a huge outlier so it does make me feel a bit better.

Sigh. We'll see though.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:59 am

iliketurtles123 wrote:
PepperJack wrote:
iliketurtles123 wrote:Exact same situation as OP.

Now I'm terrified.
I worked my ass off last semester. I read supps, outlined throughout the semester, followed Arrow and Xeoh's guide, finished reading by Halloween. Studied 6-7 hours a day early in the semester.
I took PTs as early as possible (before my classmates). Also LSAT is >75th percentile.
It worries me since I thought the lowest grade I could get was an A-, despite doing poorly in this exam.

Now I'm worried about my other classes.
How common or uncommon is it to get a random low grade for no reason (doing the same amount of work for all classes but getting one bad grade)?

I know the answer is "wait for other grades" but considering I did the same thing for all my classes, it doesn't look good (I did somewhat "adapt" and mold my studying based on the class and professor though).

This isn't what you want to here, but grades tend to be somewhat consistent. You normally have the people who get all A-s and As, the ones who get all B's and B-'s, the majority who range from a B to an A- throughout and the outliers who can get an A or a B on a given day.

It's more likely to be an outlier if the format was different. Generally, the first class has the hardest curve because everyone knows it so well. The fourth class is easy to burnout on so those also may have a discrepancy. The truth is the only thing you learn moving forward is what is actually important to focus on, and you realize all the stressing out does nothing but make you think more stupider.


I'd rather have honesty than people telling me "it's going to be ok".
Actually this class was a huge outlier so it does make me feel a bit better.

Sigh. We'll see though.


You did this at CLS? 6-7 hours of studying early in the semester? And you actually finished the casebooks by 10/31? I think thats your problem right there. Who told you that was a good idea? Don't get me wrong, Im incredibly impressed by your diligence. But most were going out 3 nights a week until october from what I recall - not saying that was a good strategy either, it was probably fucking dumb (and expensive) at times, and maybe you'll blast two A's and land way above med, but its hard to see how frontloading the reading and outlining like that is even remotely effective, since as a 1L you don't understand wtf you're doing or what the prof is looking for that early anyway. I started outlining in November, FWIW, and PTing at Thanksgiving, and still managed to get thru nearly every PT the profs had available. I think that was pretty normal.

If the lower grades persist, I suggest switching it up, reading just a day or so ahead. First, you'll have a better time and see more of the city, lol. I found my success, aside from of course spotting all the issues and synthesizing the case law, came from targeting the stylistic preferences of the professor, from both a syntactic and philosophical point of view - that came by observing them, not reading ahead or over-briefing.

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txdude45
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby txdude45 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:28 pm

A nice "b"oozy Spring will wash away the problems of the Fall. - Socrates

Edited for added cleverness.

iliketurtles123
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby iliketurtles123 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:18 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
iliketurtles123 wrote:
PepperJack wrote:
iliketurtles123 wrote:Exact same situation as OP.

Now I'm terrified.
I worked my ass off last semester. I read supps, outlined throughout the semester, followed Arrow and Xeoh's guide, finished reading by Halloween. Studied 6-7 hours a day early in the semester.
I took PTs as early as possible (before my classmates). Also LSAT is >75th percentile.
It worries me since I thought the lowest grade I could get was an A-, despite doing poorly in this exam.

Now I'm worried about my other classes.
How common or uncommon is it to get a random low grade for no reason (doing the same amount of work for all classes but getting one bad grade)?

I know the answer is "wait for other grades" but considering I did the same thing for all my classes, it doesn't look good (I did somewhat "adapt" and mold my studying based on the class and professor though).

This isn't what you want to here, but grades tend to be somewhat consistent. You normally have the people who get all A-s and As, the ones who get all B's and B-'s, the majority who range from a B to an A- throughout and the outliers who can get an A or a B on a given day.

It's more likely to be an outlier if the format was different. Generally, the first class has the hardest curve because everyone knows it so well. The fourth class is easy to burnout on so those also may have a discrepancy. The truth is the only thing you learn moving forward is what is actually important to focus on, and you realize all the stressing out does nothing but make you think more stupider.


I'd rather have honesty than people telling me "it's going to be ok".
Actually this class was a huge outlier so it does make me feel a bit better.

Sigh. We'll see though.


You did this at CLS? 6-7 hours of studying early in the semester? And you actually finished the casebooks by 10/31? I think thats your problem right there. Who told you that was a good idea? Don't get me wrong, Im incredibly impressed by your diligence. But most were going out 3 nights a week until october from what I recall - not saying that was a good strategy either, it was probably fucking dumb (and expensive) at times, and maybe you'll blast two A's and land way above med, but its hard to see how frontloading the reading and outlining like that is even remotely effective, since as a 1L you don't understand wtf you're doing or what the prof is looking for that early anyway. I started outlining in November, FWIW, and PTing at Thanksgiving, and still managed to get thru nearly every PT the profs had available. I think that was pretty normal.

If the lower grades persist, I suggest switching it up, reading just a day or so ahead. First, you'll have a better time and see more of the city, lol. I found my success, aside from of course spotting all the issues and synthesizing the case law, came from targeting the stylistic preferences of the professor, from both a syntactic and philosophical point of view - that came by observing them, not reading ahead or over-briefing.


I am 100% open to any criticism or suggestions since obviously something was not working.

In my defense, I pretty much did everything that my classmates did PLUS more. I did the reading twice (I read everything by halloween and I made sure to read it again before each class to refresh; AND I synthesized my notes on the weekends combining reading + class notes), did ALL the supps (the best ones at least), and outlined twice or even 3x for each class. Admittedly, my outlines totally sucked the first time around but I did outline again starting in Nov., and made attack outlines to fit the PTs.

My answers were spot on compared to the model answers (for the other classes at least). I did all the PTs twice or more since I got an early start.

The one thing I didn't do was adapt completely to the professor's preferences (like you said). This was probably more important in this class so I think that might have been the problem. Also, the class had no student model answers, was a different type (open book v. limited note), and professor was notorious for being incoherent.

I'll report back with my other grades (or probably make a new thread if they suck) but it seems like I did everything you're suggesting + more. Right now, the only thing I can think of is my failure to adapt to my professor's style but I guess it's too early to tell

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shifty_eyed
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby shifty_eyed » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:25 pm

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Last edited by shifty_eyed on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iliketurtles123
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby iliketurtles123 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:32 pm

shifty_eyed wrote:Also a 1L, and I got a B and an A+. Not sure which is the outlier LOL.


Nice! I'm sure the B is an outlier. Anyone can have a bad day but most people probably can't write an A+ exam even at their best.

Of course though, this is coming from a B student....hahaha.... sigh :|

Jan 14
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby Jan 14 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:33 pm

My one and only “b” was the first grade I ever received, thus I can relate (anxiety wise). My one and only “a” was the last grade I received, everything else was in-between. Btw: It all worked out (I am now a 3L).
I assume CLS uses a curve.

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kay2016
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby kay2016 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:12 pm

Jan 14 wrote:My one and only “b” was the first grade I ever received, thus I can relate (anxiety wise). My one and only “a” was the last grade I received, everything else was in-between. Btw: It all worked out (I am now a 3L).
I assume CLS uses a curve.



I was the opposite for this semester haha, we'll see what spring brings

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helix23
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Re: 1 grade back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby helix23 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:29 pm

*edit*
Last edited by helix23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FredJones
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby FredJones » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:03 pm

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Last edited by FredJones on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:07 pm

FredJones wrote:So 2/3 back. Both are Bs. Now I'm fucked, right?


I'd definitely suggest that study habit mix-up, but I would maintain that you can't know for sure yet. You're not getting Kent, but besides that, we don't even know wtf median is at this point. I'm not convinced that every prof gave a B+ median.. some might have had closer to a B median, or at least B's could have comprised a higher %, in which case you are closer to median than you think. Idk.

Any 2L's/3L's have some input on this?

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smaug_
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby smaug_ » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:25 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
FredJones wrote:So 2/3 back. Both are Bs. Now I'm fucked, right?


I'd definitely suggest that study habit mix-up, but I would maintain that you can't know for sure yet. You're not getting Kent, but besides that, we don't even know wtf median is at this point. I'm not convinced that every prof gave a B+ median.. some might have had closer to a B median, or at least B's could have comprised a higher %, in which case you are closer to median than you think. Idk.

Any 2L's/3L's have some input on this?


I'd be astounded if the median ended up at a B. A B+ is almost assuredly the median and the mode for a single 1L class. Actual median after 1L is unknown, but you have Stone at 3.4. (which is somewhere below 1/3, but again, we don't really know.)

That said, Bs aren't a death sentence. Y'all need to chill out here. In general you'll have buckets of GPAs: you'll have Kenters, "high" Stone, Stoners, median and below median. You can get big law from any one of the buckets. This might shock you, but most of the prestigious firms don't really care whether you're "high" Stone or Stone. I'm not convinced that many firms really care that much between Stone and not Stone. "High" Stone should be enough to give you a shot everywhere except WLRK.

If you came in and expected to be a SCOTUS clerk or to work at WLRK, yeah your dreams might be dashed. But, if your dreams were pretty much anything else, you're fine. Keep in mind that for all of the trumpeting that you hear on TLS and elsewhere about the V5 firm, at the end of the day your primary focus should be to get a job and not the job. Moreover, even if you think Skadden (just an example) sounds like a bro's paradise, you might interview there and find that you don't actually like vibe.

It's too early to be super concerned about jobs and a large portion of the class will receive a B or two as a 1L. Most people still get jobs and below median grades do not prevent you from getting biglaw at CLS. The worst thing you can do right now is psych yourself out and start worrying about things too much. Talk to some profs, talk to some 2Ls/3Ls you respect and just do whatever it takes to make you a functioning human being. You can have fun and do well in law school. I promise.

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FredJones
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby FredJones » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:46 pm

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Last edited by FredJones on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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smaug_
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby smaug_ » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:05 pm

FredJones wrote:I'm fine with the fact that I will now not clerk and am out at WLRK. Law Review? Pipe dream. My main problem is that I was looking good for some V20 1L stuff based on interviews and now that seems to be out of the window the second they see my grades. Even if I still happen upon one (I worked at one firm for a year before school), there is no way they invite me back for 2L SA unless I absolutely crush the spring. Once EIP hits, I'm feel like I'm cooked unless I can pull 3, or 4, A marks in the spring.


You can still write on to Law Review. No offense, but you probably didn't have much of a shot at the 1L positions anyway. Unless you're a diversity candidate, those positions are very rare. If you are a diversity candidate, apply and see what happens.

Either way, relatively few students at CLS end up with 1L SAs. You will get a (fine) 1L job. B range grades are not a death sentence at EIP, though things would be better if your grades are higher. Grades are a big deal, but not as big as you're making them out to be.

I feel like law students fixate on grades because for the most part we're people who succeeded academically in the past and we've been told repeatedly how important our grades are. But, when you look at the data from past years, you'll see a number of people without Stone who end up with positions. There will be people with Stone who will strike out. So, although there's a connection between your ability to get a job and your grades, your grades don't guarantee an outcome, positive or negative.

This is why you shouldn't fixate on your grades. Just figure out what went wrong and try to see if you can do better. If you're a constant ball of nerves who is worried about grades and is convinced that you'll end up jobless, it'll make it harder for you to function. You can have fun and improve your grades—I promise you that. You just need to take efforts to learn what went wrong and to do whatever lets you be fully functional.

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ph5354a
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby ph5354a » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:09 pm

smaug wrote:Talk to some profs, talk to some 2Ls/3Ls you respect and just do whatever it takes to make you a functioning human being. You can have fun and do well in law school. I promise.[/i]


One this note, any recommendations for how to approach a prof to discuss our exam? Not in a challenging way, but in a "I thought I knew enough to do better than this and don't know what went wrong" kind of way. Are profs generally open to having these kinds of discussions?

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smaug_
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby smaug_ » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:12 pm

ph5354a wrote:
smaug wrote:Talk to some profs, talk to some 2Ls/3Ls you respect and just do whatever it takes to make you a functioning human being. You can have fun and do well in law school. I promise.[/i]


One this note, any recommendations for how to approach a prof to discuss our exam? Not in a challenging way, but in a "I thought I knew enough to do better than this and don't know what went wrong" kind of way. Are profs generally open to having these kinds of discussions?


Just email them and ask if they'd be willing to go over your exam/the model answer. You can tell profs that you're trying to learn how to get better at law school exams. It's not unusual at all to run through an exam with the prof. If they gave you a model answer, make sure you read through the model answer thoroughly, though.

stej94
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby stej94 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:21 pm

FredJones wrote:I'm fine with the fact that I will now not clerk and am out at WLRK. Law Review? Pipe dream. My main problem is that I was looking good for some V20 1L stuff based on interviews and now that seems to be out of the window the second they see my grades. Even if I still happen upon one (I worked at one firm for a year before school), there is no way they invite me back for 2L SA unless I absolutely crush the spring. Once EIP hits, I'm feel like I'm cooked unless I can pull 3, or 4, A marks in the spring.


Was in a very similar situation after 1L first semester, B, B & B+. Improved somewhat second semester, but not drastically (about median that semester). I too was extremely worried after receiving first semester grades, but in the end did fine at EIP, (solid # of CB's and multiple offers). Have a couple of other friends who had similar grades, and experiences as me. Of course you should look to improve as much as possible this spring (grades are obviously important), but this is just to say that B's are by no means a death mark for EIP (take it from someone who had a few). Maybe you'll be out at the more selective firms, but if any Biglaw is the goal you'll still be in the running for plenty of places.

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Nelson
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Re: 2 grades back. How "B"oned am I?

Postby Nelson » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:24 pm

FredJones wrote:I'm fine with the fact that I will now not clerk and am out at WLRK.

While you may not in fact ever prowl the halls of Herb and Marty's sanctum of the poison pill, 2 Bs doesn't mean you won't clerk. Chill out.




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