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rpcb
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:01 pm

Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby rpcb » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:58 pm

PepperJack wrote:The 3.0 crap lexleon said is dead wrong. 2.5 is soo far below a 3.3 median it's boarderline impossible from. While the LSAT and UGPA are not great predictors, fall 1L GPA is an astonishingly strong predictor of spring GPA. This isn't to say you can't improve, but you'd need baller grades to be in striking distance of median. 2.5 is just so far below median it may be hard to come back from.

That said, if you bring something else to the table - URM (specifically AA) or have a parent whose a partner you may have some shot if you can hit median for 1 semester. If not you'd have to be like number 1 just to get median, which isn't a great place to be and about a 1:10,000 bet given the likely 400 students and how strong a predictor fall grades are. People rise and fall, but above a .25 variation is truly the outlier.

I might feel differently if you had 1 A and 1 D, but consistent B - really means you didn't get something in every class. You're prob smart enough to learn from it, and can improve but the type of improvement you'd need is profound.


I definitely understand what you are saying. Im really toward leaning on dropping out. I want to just make clear though I am still waiting on one grade so I am not sure what my final GPA is. That said it was the test I was the least confident tin so I am not expecting much.

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PepperJack
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Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby PepperJack » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:49 pm

rpcb wrote:
PepperJack wrote:The 3.0 crap lexleon said is dead wrong. 2.5 is soo far below a 3.3 median it's boarderline impossible from. While the LSAT and UGPA are not great predictors, fall 1L GPA is an astonishingly strong predictor of spring GPA. This isn't to say you can't improve, but you'd need baller grades to be in striking distance of median. 2.5 is just so far below median it may be hard to come back from.

That said, if you bring something else to the table - URM (specifically AA) or have a parent whose a partner you may have some shot if you can hit median for 1 semester. If not you'd have to be like number 1 just to get median, which isn't a great place to be and about a 1:10,000 bet given the likely 400 students and how strong a predictor fall grades are. People rise and fall, but above a .25 variation is truly the outlier.

I might feel differently if you had 1 A and 1 D, but consistent B - really means you didn't get something in every class. You're prob smart enough to learn from it, and can improve but the type of improvement you'd need is profound.


I definitely understand what you are saying. Im really toward leaning on dropping out. I want to just make clear though I am still waiting on one grade so I am not sure what my final GPA is. That said it was the test I was the least confident tin so I am not expecting much.

I certainly appreciate how big of a decision this is. Did you try this semester? Were you taking practice tests? If you decide to stay I'd be happy to try to give a hand where I can when I have time if you send me some of your practice tests. Law school exam taking is a distinct skill, and though grades in extremes are typically not random, performance does not always correlate with how much you know. Essentially, if you can't use something to get points, you might as well just not know it.

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PepperJack
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Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby PepperJack » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:52 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:And LOL at telling OP that he has "the next five semesters" to get his grades right. If there's one thing I've learned from TLS, especially the "Vale of Tears" thread, it's that if you don't come out of 2L OCI with a job (which depends greatly on 1L grades), life gets really hard really fast.

Yep, it's a shame but one could hypothetically have excellent 1L grades, continued excellence and still be screwed. For the rare low GPA who gets lucky, there is necessarily the rare high GPA who is royally f'd.

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PepperJack
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Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby PepperJack » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:57 pm

thesealocust wrote:Just realized LexLeon is a troll; probably best just not to engage.

I think she might be a 1L? Whether she in good faith believe she's helping people isn't really relevant. Nobody is going to be suing her for their poor decisions based on her advice. By parroting sentiment that was only accurate in past generations, even if she's the Virgin Mary, she is toxic. I don't understand the ego someone would have to counteract someone well informed, who is a current big law lawyer and who did it all post the economic meltdown such as yourself, Mr. Locust.

rpcb
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:01 pm

Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby rpcb » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:12 pm

PepperJack wrote:
rpcb wrote:
PepperJack wrote:The 3.0 crap lexleon said is dead wrong. 2.5 is soo far below a 3.3 median it's boarderline impossible from. While the LSAT and UGPA are not great predictors, fall 1L GPA is an astonishingly strong predictor of spring GPA. This isn't to say you can't improve, but you'd need baller grades to be in striking distance of median. 2.5 is just so far below median it may be hard to come back from.

That said, if you bring something else to the table - URM (specifically AA) or have a parent whose a partner you may have some shot if you can hit median for 1 semester. If not you'd have to be like number 1 just to get median, which isn't a great place to be and about a 1:10,000 bet given the likely 400 students and how strong a predictor fall grades are. People rise and fall, but above a .25 variation is truly the outlier.

I might feel differently if you had 1 A and 1 D, but consistent B - really means you didn't get something in every class. You're prob smart enough to learn from it, and can improve but the type of improvement you'd need is profound.


I definitely understand what you are saying. Im really toward leaning on dropping out. I want to just make clear though I am still waiting on one grade so I am not sure what my final GPA is. That said it was the test I was the least confident tin so I am not expecting much.

I certainly appreciate how big of a decision this is. Did you try this semester? Were you taking practice tests? If you decide to stay I'd be happy to try to give a hand where I can when I have time if you send me some of your practice tests. Law school exam taking is a distinct skill, and though grades in extremes are typically not random, performance does not always correlate with how much you know. Essentially, if you can't use something to get points, you might as well just not know it.



I did try. i took a lot of practice tests, participated in study groups, talked to professors during office hours, ect... The one thing I can think of off the top of my head that I wish I did differently was start studying earlier in the day. I would usually wait until after a few hours after class ended and be finished later in the day when I would be a bit more fatigued. I would be more than happy to send you some PTs if I decide to stay this semester. I obviously could use the advice.

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PepperJack
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:23 pm

Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby PepperJack » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:03 pm

rpcb wrote:
PepperJack wrote:
rpcb wrote:
PepperJack wrote:The 3.0 crap lexleon said is dead wrong. 2.5 is soo far below a 3.3 median it's boarderline impossible from. While the LSAT and UGPA are not great predictors, fall 1L GPA is an astonishingly strong predictor of spring GPA. This isn't to say you can't improve, but you'd need baller grades to be in striking distance of median. 2.5 is just so far below median it may be hard to come back from.

That said, if you bring something else to the table - URM (specifically AA) or have a parent whose a partner you may have some shot if you can hit median for 1 semester. If not you'd have to be like number 1 just to get median, which isn't a great place to be and about a 1:10,000 bet given the likely 400 students and how strong a predictor fall grades are. People rise and fall, but above a .25 variation is truly the outlier.

I might feel differently if you had 1 A and 1 D, but consistent B - really means you didn't get something in every class. You're prob smart enough to learn from it, and can improve but the type of improvement you'd need is profound.


I definitely understand what you are saying. Im really toward leaning on dropping out. I want to just make clear though I am still waiting on one grade so I am not sure what my final GPA is. That said it was the test I was the least confident tin so I am not expecting much.

I certainly appreciate how big of a decision this is. Did you try this semester? Were you taking practice tests? If you decide to stay I'd be happy to try to give a hand where I can when I have time if you send me some of your practice tests. Law school exam taking is a distinct skill, and though grades in extremes are typically not random, performance does not always correlate with how much you know. Essentially, if you can't use something to get points, you might as well just not know it.



I did try. i took a lot of practice tests, participated in study groups, talked to professors during office hours, ect... The one thing I can think of off the top of my head that I wish I did differently was start studying earlier in the day. I would usually wait until after a few hours after class ended and be finished later in the day when I would be a bit more fatigued. I would be more than happy to send you some PTs if I decide to stay this semester. I obviously could use the advice.

I guess it depends what time you are finishing. Personally, I am naturally not a morning person so my grades went up when the early AM classes weren't mandatory and I could work 12-12. If you only had limited hours each day, yeah, that sucks. However, I found that my grades improved when I would take the day off whenever I didn't feel like working (included skipping class too). I would be much more productive the following day. Granted, my improvement was only .1 first to second semester, and I could have just gotten better at the tests relative to others.

micwrecka45
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:05 pm

Re: below median after 1st semester at T20, may drop out

Postby micwrecka45 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:24 pm

My God. Drop out drop out drop out. Not even a question with six figures in projected debt. Only with a full or massive scholly would this even be debatable. I guess maybe the PSLF route another poster mentioned could be one saving grace, but even that's grasping at straws at this point.

Look, I understand that this is a big decision, so you're hesitant, but the chances of you landing a job that would make incurring six figures of debt worthwhile is essentially zero. Dropping out doesn't make you a failure, or a quitter, it means law school just wasn't for you, and you made the smart choice to cut your losses.




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