Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

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AntiHuman
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Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby AntiHuman » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:39 pm

failed the CA exam. 112 mbe (25's on both torts and crim...got destroyed on other 4 subjects) and 55 on all parts of the written section except for an 80 on one essay(which I thought I did average to above average). I got 55's on the PR and Con Law essay which I thought i destroyed. So annoying. Total score: 1356

Couple questions:

1. Barbri course starts Jan 2nd. That seems kind of late and I feel I will cut off all barbri videos and the AMPS? Should I say screw it and get a tutor to create a repeater schedule for me and start next week? Are tutors worth it for 180/hour? Anyone know any good tutors or know where to find them in the Bay Area?

I really need help figuring out when to start and what exactly to cut off and what not to cut off with regards to creating a study schedule.

2. Is adaptibar really worth it? Money isnt a huge issue so I can afford a tutor and adaptibar and I really don't like barbri mbe questions/explanations

3. I really don't know if I can go through this again. I really enjoy torts and crim, but thats it. I literally went to law school for 2 subjects and hate the rest. I thought about picking another career path if I can't pass the exam or even taking the exam in another state if I have to. I just really enjoy only torts and crim and cant stand the rest. Luckily I have no debt from school and can afford a tutor/adaptibar and will repeat the barbri course for free anyway. Any general advice or help is greatly appreciated with regards to tutor/barbri/adaptibar and how to mix them all together.
Last edited by AntiHuman on Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hiima3L
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby hiima3L » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:51 am

Adaptibar was the best $350 (or whatever it was) I spent on anything law school-related. I studied the MBE subjects way, way more because in CA you can essentially pass with a solid MBE score even if you do terribly otherwise. Adaptibar was incredibly helpful in learning the MBE subjects and because it's all real questions it was much more realistic than Barbri's questions. I strongly recommend it to everyone.

My favorite thing about it is it provided you with very detailed records so you can know for sure what you had down and what you need to study instead of just relying on your feelings about the topics. My biggest gripe, though, is that you couldn't really erase your progress or do smaller sets, so it was a big overall picture. E.g., toward the last week I knew I was getting 80-90% of evidence questions right, but I had to keep track on my own at that point. But it was nice knowing that I was hopeless on just about every mortgage question with a week left to go, so I just stopped bothering with those. I didn't spend too much time on them during the real MBE, so it helped with time management, which was a huge issue for most everyone on the exam I took.

PM me if you want a $50 discount on it. Full disclosure: I can get $50 for referrals, so take my endorsement however you'd like.

Also, don't waste your time with Barbri. The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:05 am

hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?

f174635
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby f174635 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:13 am

If you received a score of 1356, that means you failed by a pretty large margin. So you will need to see where you screwed up, take some more practice exams.

As for Barbri and other exam prep courses, I think once is enough unless they are willing to let you in for free. Otherwise, you are better off using that money to get used prep books, flash cards, and audio tapes. You will also need a place where you can study with no interruptions - usually a library with unlimited parking works best.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:57 am

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?

My experience was also that the bar exam primarily tested memorization. For me that was different from the typical law school exam because my law school exams were all open book, so I never brute memorized stuff the way I did for the bar. Also, for MC (like the MBE) there is a right answer, while in law school exams it was more about how you argued stuff (of course, that's probably true for the bar exam essays as well). (Full disclosure: I didn't take CA but my MBE prep was definitely about memorization.)

hiima3L
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby hiima3L » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:47 pm

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?


I can only speak to the CA bar.

IMO it's 100% true. You can pass if you can memorize enough law and know how it applies, which, again IMO, is primarily memorization. If you know the BLL, you can almost always narrow it down to at least 2 answers without much thought and can often make a very educated guess.

As for essays, even if you are a god awful, bottom of the barrel writer, you can still get a passing answer if you know the law well enough. This will allow you to issue spot and state the rule. Even with horrendous analysis, you can get a passing (or close to passing) answer. Combined with a solid MBE score, you can fail every single essay and PT but still pass.

Preparation is very different than law school because you need to know the bare minimum. Every answer on the MBE has a clear cut answer and the overwhelming majority of essays have clear cut answers too. PTs are a different story because they're all over the place, but if you can't write a decent answer, I really don't think any amount of practice is going to help much.

TheGreatFish
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby TheGreatFish » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:58 pm

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?


It looks like I'll be the outlier here because I would say it's pure exaggeration. Honestly I didn't study much for the bar exam, and in particular I avoided studying for the CA essays portion. If you want the most points for your time, focus on the PTs. Everything you need to know to get 100% is right there on the exam. No memorization needed. Next I would go for the MBEs. Just doing practice MBE problems will help you improve your score.

For the CA essays... You can try to study for them if you want, but you'll be studying subjects for weeks that you might never get tested on. Plus, I think every test taker gets 40% just for trying, so if you were going to bomb a section of the exam, the CA essays would be the section to do it on. I did a quick review of a few subjects using the Barbri conviser mini review and then relied on whatever I picked up in law school.

If you want the most points for the least amount of study time, focus on the PTs and MBEs.

09042014
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:18 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?

My experience was also that the bar exam primarily tested memorization. For me that was different from the typical law school exam because my law school exams were all open book, so I never brute memorized stuff the way I did for the bar. Also, for MC (like the MBE) there is a right answer, while in law school exams it was more about how you argued stuff (of course, that's probably true for the bar exam essays as well). (Full disclosure: I didn't take CA but my MBE prep was definitely about memorization.)


It tests both. The essays and most MBE questions are application of material you'll have to have memorized. If you are already good at application, then yea, it's really just memorization. But most takers aren't good at application. They have to practice both.

AntiHuman
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby AntiHuman » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:40 am

TheGreatFish wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?


It looks like I'll be the outlier here because I would say it's pure exaggeration. Honestly I didn't study much for the bar exam, and in particular I avoided studying for the CA essays portion. If you want the most points for your time, focus on the PTs. Everything you need to know to get 100% is right there on the exam. No memorization needed. Next I would go for the MBEs. Just doing practice MBE problems will help you improve your score.

For the CA essays... You can try to study for them if you want, but you'll be studying subjects for weeks that you might never get tested on. Plus, I think every test taker gets 40% just for trying, so if you were going to bomb a section of the exam, the CA essays would be the section to do it on. I did a quick review of a few subjects using the Barbri conviser mini review and then relied on whatever I picked up in law school.

If you want the most points for the least amount of study time, focus on the PTs and MBEs.


This sounds like good advice. I am just really scared for civpro and corporations. Certain subjects I just know I'll tank on.

AntiHuman
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby AntiHuman » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:42 am

Anyone know any ways I can make adaptibar cheaper? Share the costs with a friend or get coupons or have a person who passed just get the alumni tuition?

Decided to retake in February...if I fail again in Feb, I might try the Florida Bar exam or pick another career. Don't think I can do California 3 times in a row.

hiima3L
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby hiima3L » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:44 am

Desert Fox wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?



It tests both. The essays and most MBE questions are application of material you'll have to have memorized. If you are already good at application, then yea, it's really just memorization. But most takers aren't good at application. They have to practice both.


I generally agree with this with the exception of PTs. I don't think you can study for them and they primarily test your reading and writing. I don't know how that's going to improve in a few months, but that's just my take. I always did well on them and never studied them (or took a timed one) beyond just looking at the formats.

But I wholly agree you need to focus primarily on the MBEs. If you nail the MBE, you'll pass. If you nail the MBE, you will almost certainly nail MBE essays, which often make up more than 1/2 of the subjects tested.

glasses_case
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby glasses_case » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:22 am

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?


This is incredibly true. I passed the CA bar with about 5 weeks of prep through Themis; I spent the first 2.5 weeks attempting to follow a (very truncated) version of their schedule, but gave up on their videos etc. to just drill MBEs and write/review flash cards for every subject. Because, as far as I can tell, the bar mostly tests your ability to spit out rules (e.g., I and everyone I know dispatched with obviously irrelevant constitutional/jurisdictional issues at the front end of the Con Law essay), it behooves you to be able to do so without much reflection.

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shepdawg
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby shepdawg » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:13 am

What do you think any wrong?
Start there. How many MC did you do? Did you do them on barbri's website so you could track your weaknesses? How many PTs and essays did you do closed book and timed?

EZ as AsDf
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby EZ as AsDf » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:24 pm

Seconded.

hiima3L wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?


I can only speak to the CA bar.

IMO it's 100% true. You can pass if you can memorize enough law and know how it applies, which, again IMO, is primarily memorization. If you know the BLL, you can almost always narrow it down to at least 2 answers without much thought and can often make a very educated guess.

As for essays, even if you are a god awful, bottom of the barrel writer, you can still get a passing answer if you know the law well enough. This will allow you to issue spot and state the rule. Even with horrendous analysis, you can get a passing (or close to passing) answer. Combined with a solid MBE score, you can fail every single essay and PT but still pass.

Preparation is very different than law school because you need to know the bare minimum. Every answer on the MBE has a clear cut answer and the overwhelming majority of essays have clear cut answers too. PTs are a different story because they're all over the place, but if you can't write a decent answer, I really don't think any amount of practice is going to help much.

hiima3L
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby hiima3L » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:58 pm

glasses_case wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
hiima3L wrote:The bar is primarily a test of rote memorization and you need to treat it as such. Spend your time memorizing rules and doing questions and essays instead of listening to someone read verbatim from an outline (or recite it from memory like the robot Chemerinsky is).


To what extent is this true as opposed to exaggeration? To what extent is preparation for the bar different from preparation for a typical law school exam?


This is incredibly true. I passed the CA bar with about 5 weeks of prep through Themis; I spent the first 2.5 weeks attempting to follow a (very truncated) version of their schedule, but gave up on their videos etc. to just drill MBEs and write/review flash cards for every subject. Because, as far as I can tell, the bar mostly tests your ability to spit out rules (e.g., I and everyone I know dispatched with obviously irrelevant constitutional/jurisdictional issues at the front end of the Con Law essay), it behooves you to be able to do so without much reflection.


http://one-timers.com/calculate-your-fi ... exam-grade

Put in a solid MBE score (145+) and play around with the numbers. From what I understand, you can get a 55 just by making an outline that addresses issues and states the rules without ANY analysis, and a 60-65 requires an otherwise terrible essay.

So with a, say, 150 raw on the MBE (this is a very good score, btw), you can get three 55's and the rest 60's and you pass.

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superflush
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby superflush » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:44 pm

hiima3L wrote:Adaptibar was the best $350 (or whatever it was) I spent on anything law school-related....

My biggest gripe, though, is that you couldn't really erase your progress or do smaller sets, so it was a big overall picture. E.g., toward the last week I knew I was getting 80-90% of evidence questions right, but I had to keep track on my own at that point.


You can track your questions on a date basis though. In other words, you can see what kind of percentage accuracy you have gotten in a certain date range.

AntiHuman
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby AntiHuman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:39 am

superflush wrote:
hiima3L wrote:Adaptibar was the best $350 (or whatever it was) I spent on anything law school-related....

My biggest gripe, though, is that you couldn't really erase your progress or do smaller sets, so it was a big overall picture. E.g., toward the last week I knew I was getting 80-90% of evidence questions right, but I had to keep track on my own at that point.


You can track your questions on a date basis though. In other words, you can see what kind of percentage accuracy you have gotten in a certain date range.


whats kinda annoying about adaptibar is they repeat questions. I've seen many questions twice now.

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superflush
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Re: Failed CA Bar...advice on tutor, adaptibar and barbri

Postby superflush » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:54 am

AntiHuman wrote:whats kinda annoying about adaptibar is they repeat questions. I've seen many questions twice now.


Right. I've seen repeats a couple of times. The more common thing that I have seen is where the stem of the question is the same, but the call of the question is different. This must be because the MBE reuses the same question stems to test different parts of a fact pattern.




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