ITT: Evidence Forum
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Re: ITT: Evidence
This came up on a practice exam I'm doing and I can't find it in my notes but I thought I remember my professor mentioning it. What issues come up when the plaintiff attempts to introduce defendant's previous history of filing multiple lawsuits.
it seems like it could be character evidence, or may just be irrelevant unless its shown that the claims were frivolous
it seems like it could be character evidence, or may just be irrelevant unless its shown that the claims were frivolous
- brotherdarkness
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Re: ITT: Evidence
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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ITT: Evidence
After doing some hypos, I realize I don't understand Rule 408 even though it seemed simple at first.
The text itself says, "Evidence of the following is not admissible — on behalf of any party — either to prove or disprove the validity or amount of a disputed claim"
When it mentions the amount or validity of a "disputed claim", is it referring to the claim which is currently being litigated, or the claim in which a settlement was offered. I know in most cases the settlement offer pertains to the case that is actually at trial but in this hypo they are different.
The text itself says, "Evidence of the following is not admissible — on behalf of any party — either to prove or disprove the validity or amount of a disputed claim"
When it mentions the amount or validity of a "disputed claim", is it referring to the claim which is currently being litigated, or the claim in which a settlement was offered. I know in most cases the settlement offer pertains to the case that is actually at trial but in this hypo they are different.
- bjsesq
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Claim in which the settlement was offered. Consider the justification for the rule in the first place: we don't want to discourage people from settling, so a settlement in that particular case cannot mean shit (legally) as to whether the claim was valid.cmartin5970 wrote:After doing some hypos, I realize I don't understand Rule 408 even though it seemed simple at first.
The text itself says, "Evidence of the following is not admissible — on behalf of any party — either to prove or disprove the validity or amount of a disputed claim"
When it mentions the amount or validity of a "disputed claim", is it referring to the claim which is currently being litigated, or the claim in which a settlement was offered. I know in most cases the settlement offer pertains to the case that is actually at trial but in this hypo they are different.
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Re: ITT: Evidence
say you are suing police officer X for excessive force and you want to bring in evidence that 2 years ago he settled a claim for excessive force for $20,000. I know it wouldn't come in so the hypo isn't perfect, but would the settlement be inadmissible to prove the validity of the previous excessive force claim, or inadmissible to prove the validity of the current lawsuit against the officer?bjsesq wrote:Claim in which the settlement was offered. Consider the justification for the rule in the first place: we don't want to discourage people from settling, so a settlement in that particular case cannot mean shit (legally) as to whether the claim was valid.cmartin5970 wrote:After doing some hypos, I realize I don't understand Rule 408 even though it seemed simple at first.
The text itself says, "Evidence of the following is not admissible — on behalf of any party — either to prove or disprove the validity or amount of a disputed claim"
When it mentions the amount or validity of a "disputed claim", is it referring to the claim which is currently being litigated, or the claim in which a settlement was offered. I know in most cases the settlement offer pertains to the case that is actually at trial but in this hypo they are different.
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- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Hey everybody, make me know all the evidences by Wednesday. Go.
- Blumpbeef
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Gimme like an hour and I'll do my part for you. Also, I need to learn this shit by Tuesday.Birdnals wrote:Hey everybody, make me know all the evidences by Wednesday. Go.
Also, I think you know twice as much as I do at this point.
- brotherdarkness
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Re: ITT: Evidence
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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
My prof is all about saying things like "first we need to determine it relevant" even when any retard could see it is, so I have a checklist so I don't brain fart.brotherdarkness wrote:Don't be like me and not see the adopted admission. Eyes. Peeled.Birdnals wrote:Hey everybody, make me know all the evidences by Wednesday. Go.
Also, fuck multiple choice/essay tests. They throw the fuck off my timing. Pick one!
- Pleasye
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Re: ITT: Evidence
I know BDs test is already over but police reports are NOT admissible under public or business records exception. They are prepared in anticipation of litigation. They are admissible for impeachment purposes.
- brotherdarkness
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Re: ITT: Evidence
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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Pleasye
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Re: ITT: Evidence
I'm sure you did fine, you're a smarty pants <3brotherdarkness wrote:Thanks for looking (and hopefully it helps someone else here). It didn't come up on my exam (or maybe it did and I didn't see it). Evidence makes me sad.Pleasye wrote:I know BDs test is already over but police reports are NOT admissible under public or business records exception. They are prepared in anticipation of litigation. They are admissible for impeachment purposes.
- stillwater
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Re: ITT: Evidence
yea, BD, you're a smarty pants. you did just fine. no doom and gloom out of you.Pleasye wrote:I'm sure you did fine, you're a smarty pants <3brotherdarkness wrote:Thanks for looking (and hopefully it helps someone else here). It didn't come up on my exam (or maybe it did and I didn't see it). Evidence makes me sad.Pleasye wrote:I know BDs test is already over but police reports are NOT admissible under public or business records exception. They are prepared in anticipation of litigation. They are admissible for impeachment purposes.
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- Blumpbeef
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Worst. Saturday night. Ever.
- Pleasye
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Re: ITT: Evidence
I still love evidence. But I'm doing CALI lessons and they're pissing me off.Blumpbeef wrote:Worst. Saturday night. Ever.
- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
For an 801(d)(1)(c) statement of identification, because the person who made the identification has to be available for cross, wouldn't any other testimony by a 3rd party (like the cop also present at the line up) be cumulative? Would this just mean you always need to make a 403 argument on this type of scenario or am I missing something?
- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
And to answer, the judge always have discretion to keep out crimes of dishonesty for 403 reasons. They are just presumed to be admissible. After ten years it is the same only they are not presumed to be admissible. It still can go to creditability which is always material.BlueLotus wrote:If a defendant was convicted of any crime involving dishonesty, but it's been over 10 years since the conviction (or release from confinement--whichever's later) then does the judge have discretion to keep it out?
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- brotherdarkness
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Re: ITT: Evidence
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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Fuck, you are right. I was looking at the 2006 amendment about the proponent needing to have readily available proof that the conviction involved dishonestly/false statements.brotherdarkness wrote:No.Birdnals wrote:And to answer, the judge always have discretion to keep out crimes of dishonesty for 403 reasons.BlueLotus wrote:If a defendant was convicted of any crime involving dishonesty, but it's been over 10 years since the conviction (or release from confinement--whichever's later) then does the judge have discretion to keep it out?
(2) for any crime regardless of the punishment, the evidence must be admitted if the court can readily determine that establishing the elements of the crime required proving — or the witness’s admitting — a dishonest act or false statement.
That's one of the crucial distinctions. A felony is balanced, a crime of dishonesty is not.
- Blumpbeef
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Re: ITT: Evidence
You can have testimony of other identifications to corroborate the one at issue, since the witness will likely be attacked for not getting a good look at the perp.Birdnals wrote:For an 801(d)(1)(c) statement of identification, because the person who made the identification has to be available for cross, wouldn't any other testimony by a 3rd party (like the cop also present at the line up) be cumulative? Would this just mean you always need to make a 403 argument on this type of scenario or am I missing something?
Also, if the witness is impeached for her truthtellling then you might need a police officer to testify that she had in fact identified the perp in the past.
- Pleasye
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Just to add to this: police reports are available to be used against the government in a criminal case.Pleasye wrote:I know BDs test is already over but police reports are NOT admissible under public or business records exception. They are prepared in anticipation of litigation. They are admissible for impeachment purposes.
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- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
Right, for due process concerns. They are also admissible as 803(8) government records for civil cases most the time because they were made under a legal duty (think things like downed tree branches reports)Pleasye wrote:Just to add to this: police reports are available to be used against the government in a criminal case.Pleasye wrote:I know BDs test is already over but police reports are NOT admissible under public or business records exception. They are prepared in anticipation of litigation. They are admissible for impeachment purposes.
From understanding evidence:
Rule803(8)(A)(ii) is only an absolute exclusion for police records in criminal cases (but again, due process requires a criminal defendant be able to use them against the government)Most federal courts have adopted a flexible approach, holding that the police records exclusion does not apply to all police records- i.e., routine non adversarial matters are not excluded.
- Blumpbeef
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Re: ITT: Evidence
I just hit that wonderful point where I understand it well enough to realize how fucked I am.
- Blumpbeef
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Re: ITT: Evidence
I got this from my supplement (as rephrased in my notes, and with my own made up example), but I have another book that contradicts it, saying that FRE prevents any admissions during negotiations entirely. Thoughts?
ETA: does this fall under the "proving an effort to obstruct" exception under 408b? What about for civil cases?Rule 408: statements made during negotiations, even if they sound like admissions, are not admissible. However, an out and out admission is not protected. "I know I owe you $500, but I'm only going to give you $300 right now and if you want the 500 you'll have to take this to trial" is not protected. Has to be with regards to both liability and damages; so an admission of negligence but not as to damages is not admissible.
- Birdnals
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Re: ITT: Evidence
No, this is an example where there has to be an issue in dispute. That example is not a good faith settlement, and according to the advisory committee notes (which in this case most courts follow): the policies underlying rule 408 "do not come into play when the effort is to induce a creditor to settle an admittedly due amount for a lesser sum"Blumpbeef wrote:I got this from my supplement (as rephrased in my notes, and with my own made up example), but I have another book that contradicts it, saying that FRE prevents any admissions during negotiations entirely. Thoughts?
ETA: does this fall under the "proving an effort to obstruct" exception under 408b? What about for civil cases?Rule 408: statements made during negotiations, even if they sound like admissions, are not admissible. However, an out and out admission is not protected. "I know I owe you $500, but I'm only going to give you $300 right now and if you want the 500 you'll have to take this to trial" is not protected. Has to be with regards to both liability and damages; so an admission of negligence but not as to damages is not admissible.
In other words, the person is not disputing liability OR the amount owed, just the amount he wants to pay, which is not a legal dispute and doesn't fulfill the 408 dispute requirement.
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