Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

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AMCD
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Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AMCD » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:45 pm

Anyone else feel this way?

Put in a huge amount of work. Did Barbri and yes, it was pure scare tactics all the way. Just seriously don't know how to start this over again.

Should add: am non-trad. student with a family.

FLaker
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby FLaker » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:16 pm

Have you watched: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Lawyer_Walks_into_a_Bar ?

Might have some helpful information.

cadestevenson
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby cadestevenson » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:19 pm

If writing was the problem: Practice thoroughly on all past exam essays and PTs. If MBE was the problem, get all the practice questions you can afford, and memorize the outlines.

AMCD
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AMCD » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:38 pm

FLaker wrote:Have you watched: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Lawyer_Walks_into_a_Bar ?

Might have some helpful information.


Not only did I see that before starting law school, but someone emailed me on Friday saying, "I just watched that documentary again and thought of you. So what popped upon the screen when you checked if you passed?" That was a short reply!

Plus, as I recall the UCLA girl who failed did so because she blew off prep., and the guy who passed after try, what was it -- 42, well, I have no intention of becomming him!

AMCD
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AMCD » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:40 pm

cadestevenson wrote:If writing was the problem: Practice thoroughly on all past exam essays and PTs. If MBE was the problem, get all the practice questions you can afford, and memorize the outlines.


Thank you for this. I suppose I must see what they send out regarding the breakdown before knowing what to do. But, isn't the pass rate way worse in February administrations?

09042014
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby 09042014 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:44 pm

AMCD wrote:
cadestevenson wrote:If writing was the problem: Practice thoroughly on all past exam essays and PTs. If MBE was the problem, get all the practice questions you can afford, and memorize the outlines.


Thank you for this. I suppose I must see what they send out regarding the breakdown before knowing what to do. But, isn't the pass rate way worse in February administrations?


Because it's mostly failures taking it. It's no easier, or harder than July.

AMCD
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AMCD » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:55 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
AMCD wrote:
cadestevenson wrote:If writing was the problem: Practice thoroughly on all past exam essays and PTs. If MBE was the problem, get all the practice questions you can afford, and memorize the outlines.


Thank you for this. I suppose I must see what they send out regarding the breakdown before knowing what to do. But, isn't the pass rate way worse in February administrations?


Because it's mostly failures taking it. It's no easier, or harder than July.



Well, in that case it might be comforting to be with those with whom I have so much in common.

09042014
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby 09042014 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:00 pm

AMCD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
AMCD wrote:
Thank you for this. I suppose I must see what they send out regarding the breakdown before knowing what to do. But, isn't the pass rate way worse in February administrations?


Because it's mostly failures taking it. It's no easier, or harder than July.



Well, in that case it might be comforting to be with those with whom I have so much in common.


1/4 chance on your second go around. You're going to have to grind it out.

AMCD
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AMCD » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
AMCD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
AMCD wrote:
Thank you for this. I suppose I must see what they send out regarding the breakdown before knowing what to do. But, isn't the pass rate way worse in February administrations?


Because it's mostly failures taking it. It's no easier, or harder than July.



Well, in that case it might be comforting to be with those with whom I have so much in common.


1/4 chance on your second go around. You're going to have to grind it out.


Would that compute to a 3/4 chance on two attempts .... sucked at math

09042014
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby 09042014 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:25 pm

AMCD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
AMCD wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Because it's mostly failures taking it. It's no easier, or harder than July.



Well, in that case it might be comforting to be with those with whom I have so much in common.


1/4 chance on your second go around. You're going to have to grind it out.


Would that compute to a 3/4 chance on two attempts .... sucked at math


7/16 you'd pass if you took it two more times.

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Emma.
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby Emma. » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:12 am

Desert Fox wrote:
7/16 you'd pass if you took it two more times.


Eh. I think this is ignoring the correlation between prior fails and your next attempt?

OP, so sorry this happened to you. The CA bar is an awful, grueling experience. But I'm sure that your prep from round 1 is going to help you in your prep from round 2. And, as someone else mentioned, you should have pretty good feedback about what you struggled with so you should be able to focus your study for the next time around.

EZ as AsDf
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby EZ as AsDf » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:26 am

Desert Fox wrote:
AMCD wrote:
cadestevenson wrote:If writing was the problem: Practice thoroughly on all past exam essays and PTs. If MBE was the problem, get all the practice questions you can afford, and memorize the outlines.


Thank you for this. I suppose I must see what they send out regarding the breakdown before knowing what to do. But, isn't the pass rate way worse in February administrations?


Because it's mostly failures taking it. It's no easier, or harder than July.


"failures", easy there.

EZ as AsDf
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby EZ as AsDf » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:29 am

Hey, if you didn't pass and are preparing for February, follow this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=220409.

Just to let you know, you can apply for the bar exam again already... its just another 800 or so.

HYSenberg
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:30 am

FLaker wrote:Have you watched: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Lawyer_Walks_into_a_Bar ?

Might have some helpful information.


Just watched that movie, pretty cool.

cadestevenson
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby cadestevenson » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:07 pm

Maybe all companies sell the same materials, so maybe I should adjust my statement, to state, that if MBE was the problem, you should try to get as many nonrecycled questions as possible. Try to distill the essence of each question. You'll find there are definite patterns that make life easier. On Con Law, for example, a lot of the questions depend on whether state or federal govt is involved, and which level of scrutiny applies. In Criminal law - the predominant issue is which level of mens rea applies - is it a strict liability, general intent or specific intent crime (attempt, conspiracy, and solicitation ALWAYS are - regardless of the level of intent required for underlying crime)? Evidence, you can just memorize the rules. What maybe 5 impeachment issues and 8-10 hearsay exceptions are fair game. I don't think the others are tested much. Contracts were covered pretty well by professor Epstein, property by Franzese.

Good luck.

AntiHuman
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AntiHuman » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:36 pm

Got my scores back today and got an 80 on an essay I thought I bombed and 2 55's on essays I thought i did very well. I'm really confused at this point. I wasn't even close to 1440 either. MBEs were mediocre too.

Come from a good school, but near bottom of the class. I took Barbri and don't know what different I can do.

I can throw down for a private tutor(along with following Barbri's paced program again). Anyone know if its worth it if I have the cash and where I can find a good one in the Bay?

Also, I feel I need a lot more time to study this time around. Anyone know if I can start the Dec 9th course offered by some schools(check barbri website for class schedules and some start Dec 9th). The rest tend to start Jan 2nd.

BeautifulSW
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby BeautifulSW » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:49 pm

"Come from a good school, but near bottom of the class."

Exactly. There's a good bit of research out there that suggests that class standing is the single best predictor of first-time Bar exam success. What school you went to matters much less and what classes you took after the first year may not matter at all. Bottom quarter of the class spells trouble on the Bar almost no matter what.

You are not alone of course. In California especially, a large fraction of first-time takers fail.

What to do? Well, I don't know of much good research on that but law school grades are largely determined by how well you issue-spot, analyze, and express your analysis in writing. This makes sense because it's much of what lawyers actually do.

I would suggest a writing tutor. You need to write and write and write and write between now and your next attempt. "Mediocre" MBE scores suggest that you already know enough law.

This is going to be expensive and time-consuming but once you pass, you are done with it and can go on to a successful and rewarding career in the law having learned better writing skills in the process. You can do this. It just won't come as easily to you as it might to another.

Good luck!

omg clay aiken !
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby omg clay aiken ! » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:47 pm

AntiHuman wrote:Got my scores back today and got an 80 on an essay I thought I bombed and 2 55's on essays I thought i did very well. I'm really confused at this point. I wasn't even close to 1440 either. MBEs were mediocre too.

Come from a good school, but near bottom of the class. I took Barbri and don't know what different I can do.

I can throw down for a private tutor(along with following Barbri's paced program again). Anyone know if its worth it if I have the cash and where I can find a good one in the Bay?

Also, I feel I need a lot more time to study this time around. Anyone know if I can start the Dec 9th course offered by some schools(check barbri website for class schedules and some start Dec 9th). The rest tend to start Jan 2nd.



This is why the CA bar is such bullshit. Because so many thousands of people take it, there's so many different graders. When 65% of the score is decided by the subjective opinions of these various graders, there's so much luck involved in who grades your essay. Get a few of your essays/PTs assigned to graders who are having a bad day, have a misconception of what a good answer looks like, or decided to not even read what you wrote (i think graders are paid by the volume of the essays they grade), and that could put you out of even re-grade territory. The opposite is also true; someone who has no business passing could get lucky on extra forgiving graders. This isn't sour grapes (I passed CA my first time) -- I have always thought the grading is bullshit. way too subjective

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ph14
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby ph14 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:44 pm

omg clay aiken ! wrote:
AntiHuman wrote:Got my scores back today and got an 80 on an essay I thought I bombed and 2 55's on essays I thought i did very well. I'm really confused at this point. I wasn't even close to 1440 either. MBEs were mediocre too.

Come from a good school, but near bottom of the class. I took Barbri and don't know what different I can do.

I can throw down for a private tutor(along with following Barbri's paced program again). Anyone know if its worth it if I have the cash and where I can find a good one in the Bay?

Also, I feel I need a lot more time to study this time around. Anyone know if I can start the Dec 9th course offered by some schools(check barbri website for class schedules and some start Dec 9th). The rest tend to start Jan 2nd.



This is why the CA bar is such bullshit. Because so many thousands of people take it, there's so many different graders. When 65% of the score is decided by the subjective opinions of these various graders, there's so much luck involved in who grades your essay. Get a few of your essays/PTs assigned to graders who are having a bad day, have a misconception of what a good answer looks like, or decided to not even read what you wrote (i think graders are paid by the volume of the essays they grade), and that could put you out of even re-grade territory. The opposite is also true; someone who has no business passing could get lucky on extra forgiving graders. This isn't sour grapes (I passed CA my first time) -- I have always thought the grading is bullshit. way too subjective


Also: Who are the people grading the bar?

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worldtraveler
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:38 pm

ph14 wrote:
omg clay aiken ! wrote:
AntiHuman wrote:Got my scores back today and got an 80 on an essay I thought I bombed and 2 55's on essays I thought i did very well. I'm really confused at this point. I wasn't even close to 1440 either. MBEs were mediocre too.

Come from a good school, but near bottom of the class. I took Barbri and don't know what different I can do.

I can throw down for a private tutor(along with following Barbri's paced program again). Anyone know if its worth it if I have the cash and where I can find a good one in the Bay?

Also, I feel I need a lot more time to study this time around. Anyone know if I can start the Dec 9th course offered by some schools(check barbri website for class schedules and some start Dec 9th). The rest tend to start Jan 2nd.



This is why the CA bar is such bullshit. Because so many thousands of people take it, there's so many different graders. When 65% of the score is decided by the subjective opinions of these various graders, there's so much luck involved in who grades your essay. Get a few of your essays/PTs assigned to graders who are having a bad day, have a misconception of what a good answer looks like, or decided to not even read what you wrote (i think graders are paid by the volume of the essays they grade), and that could put you out of even re-grade territory. The opposite is also true; someone who has no business passing could get lucky on extra forgiving graders. This isn't sour grapes (I passed CA my first time) -- I have always thought the grading is bullshit. way too subjective


Also: Who are the people grading the bar?


I looked into how they do the hiring, and you have to live in the bay area and have passed the CA bar on your first or second attempt. So essentially bay area underemployed attorneys.

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ph14
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby ph14 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:43 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
ph14 wrote:
omg clay aiken ! wrote:
AntiHuman wrote:Got my scores back today and got an 80 on an essay I thought I bombed and 2 55's on essays I thought i did very well. I'm really confused at this point. I wasn't even close to 1440 either. MBEs were mediocre too.

Come from a good school, but near bottom of the class. I took Barbri and don't know what different I can do.

I can throw down for a private tutor(along with following Barbri's paced program again). Anyone know if its worth it if I have the cash and where I can find a good one in the Bay?

Also, I feel I need a lot more time to study this time around. Anyone know if I can start the Dec 9th course offered by some schools(check barbri website for class schedules and some start Dec 9th). The rest tend to start Jan 2nd.



This is why the CA bar is such bullshit. Because so many thousands of people take it, there's so many different graders. When 65% of the score is decided by the subjective opinions of these various graders, there's so much luck involved in who grades your essay. Get a few of your essays/PTs assigned to graders who are having a bad day, have a misconception of what a good answer looks like, or decided to not even read what you wrote (i think graders are paid by the volume of the essays they grade), and that could put you out of even re-grade territory. The opposite is also true; someone who has no business passing could get lucky on extra forgiving graders. This isn't sour grapes (I passed CA my first time) -- I have always thought the grading is bullshit. way too subjective


Also: Who are the people grading the bar?


I looked into how they do the hiring, and you have to live in the bay area and have passed the CA bar on your first or second attempt. So essentially bay area underemployed attorneys.


Makes sense. It's not necessarily the cream of the crop grading the bar exams, so don't feel too bad about an essay score. Best of luck in your second attempts all.

AMCD
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AMCD » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:18 am

So, talked to Barbri today. I thought I wasn't hearing the girl right: Told me to listen to ALL the lectures again, and basically just redo the whole course, after explaining to her that if I got just 16 more right on the MBE I would have passed. She then tried to sell me on a private tutor, and then to purchase Multistate Edge for at least another $400. The whole point of retaking, is that you need to adjust the work and ourse accordingly. Yes, my essays could have been better, but I know what I screwed up on them and left a lot of good points on the table. What's baffling is that my highest scores were on both PTs (the SAME score for each--65s. How is that even possible given PTA?!!) and the con law essay which was my worst subject in law school. Got the same score on every other essay whether I thought I kicked ass on it, or thought I failed miserably. So, MBE was the killer for me. Anyone have other recommendations for MBE. The Barbri method didn't work for me. Did 2,300 practice questions and didn't raise my score from the mid term to the actual test. A couple of people have recommended Adaptibar and only reviewing Barbri outlines as usual. Thanks all of you for your input!!

FLaker
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby FLaker » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:05 am

Perhaps a tutor could assist with helping you figure out what would work best for you study wise? Tailor your study routine to maximize efficiency. Does your school, or a professor at your school offer this service for free?

I have no grounds to argue with the testmasters at BarBri, but it seems like watching the videos again could be a huge waste of time. Especially if the videos do not best fit your learning style.

jack919
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby jack919 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:05 am

AMCD wrote:So, talked to Barbri today. I thought I wasn't hearing the girl right: Told me to listen to ALL the lectures again, and basically just redo the whole course, after explaining to her that if I got just 16 more right on the MBE I would have passed. She then tried to sell me on a private tutor, and then to purchase Multistate Edge for at least another $400. The whole point of retaking, is that you need to adjust the work and ourse accordingly. Yes, my essays could have been better, but I know what I screwed up on them and left a lot of good points on the table. What's baffling is that my highest scores were on both PTs (the SAME score for each--65s. How is that even possible given PTA?!!) and the con law essay which was my worst subject in law school. Got the same score on every other essay whether I thought I kicked ass on it, or thought I failed miserably. So, MBE was the killer for me. Anyone have other recommendations for MBE. The Barbri method didn't work for me. Did 2,300 practice questions and didn't raise my score from the mid term to the actual test. A couple of people have recommended Adaptibar and only reviewing Barbri outlines as usual. Thanks all of you for your input!!



If you're interested in non-barbri MBEs, check out torrents....

AntiHuman
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Re: Cal Bar Fail -- How can anyone do this over???

Postby AntiHuman » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:11 pm

A few questions:

1. I want to start Barbri course early, but the earliest start date they offer is Jan 2nd. I think I'll need more time than that. Should I get a tutor and have him create a study schedule for me and forget about Barbri? I need to cut out all Barbri videos/AMPS and just practice? He charges 180-190/hour. Wondering if its worth it.

2. Barbri MBE just pissed me off, so wondering if Adaptibar is worth it...thoughts?

3. I think my writing style has issues, so besides getting a tutor(for writing section) and adaptibar(MBE), any other suggestions?




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